Who likes giving advice??? :)

[Got Philk?]

Ok, here's the situation. I just finished school and am certified to be a teacher. However, two problems arise. One, it's the middle of the school year and jobs are hard to find. Two, I live in Michigan and jobs are not in existence.

I have two potential options.
1. I could substitute teach all over this county. I'll lay it all out for ya. I have about 4 schools that would for sure use me as their sub...for all grades. And other days, any school can call me. The kicker is you only earn $75 a day. So, if I do work 5 days a week...and that's IF...I'd make what like $355 a week?
-but I get into more schools and learn a lot about classroom management and classroom ideas. And I get in more schools...but I don't really want to stay in Michigan.

2. I applied for and interviewed for what is called a para-professional position at the school I student taught at. This job is full time at $9 an hour. I'd be helping a 5th grade teacher who has 37 students in his class. I would be teaching both large and small groups, I would be in charge of a lot of classroom behavior issues(there is usually one or two kids suspended a week from this class), and I would have to do recess/lunchroom duties.

Ok, based on that...what do you think I should do? Educators, what would be a better option as far as experience...what do principals want of me???

Any questions?

 

[Bono's shades]

Based on my memory of how substitute teachers got treated by students when I was going to school, I say go for the second option.

Do substitute teachers get anything in the way of health insurance or other benefits?

 

[redkat]

One of my best friends got her permanent teaching position by subbing and getting to know teachers and administrators. I say the first option and hopefully you can get in next year.

 

[anitram]

My brother is subbing right now, having graduated from teachers' college last summer.

The pay where you are is ridiculous; his school board pays $160/day for supply teaching.

He says it's actually been a great experience because he really got to learn classroom control well, he saw a wide range of students and made lots of contacts at different schools. This is helpful for getting a full time position eventually but also in letting him know about the different schools in the district, and how they rate, etc.

 

[VintagePunk]

One of my best friends got her permanent teaching position by subbing and getting to know teachers and administrators. I say the first option and hopefully you can get in next year.

I agree. My nephew was in the same position, and subbed for a year or two before he got a permanent position. He got to know a lot of people, he was well liked and requested very often, and he got along well with the kids (high school age) because he's fairly young, personable, and also a big guy that kids that age wouldn't want to mess with too much.

 

[Got Philk?]

Ok, I agree with this all. But what if I have no desire to stay here in Michigan? Does that change anything?

 

[Liesje]

(Benefits are not a huge issue since we are covered through me at the moment.)

 

[anitram]

Ok, I agree with this all. But what if I have no desire to stay here in Michigan? Does that change anything?

Depends on how long you are planning on staying. If you want to leave within the next year, then networking in Michigan is kind of useless.

But if you're thinking about staying for maybe 2-4 more years, I'd supply teach and hope for full time to come up.

 

[zuropa_fit]

Subbing you get to know a lot of schools/ principals/teachers and find out where you do and don't want to teach but if you're pretty sure you're moving out of state then go for the other job.

Also the para-professional (teacher's aide? co-teacher?) job you'll get more ideas about classroom management and what works for you in developing a relationship with students. I'm a teacher and from what I can tell, subs don't do a whole lot of teaching or classroom management. They kinda seem like babysitters. My student aides usually wind up teaching the class when I'm gone.

 

[achtung_girl]

Come to Europe. In my country teachers are federal employees and they earn very well (to much in my opinion, I mean for what they do...it seems like the good payment barely helps them with their motivation; I think it's the same motivation when you get 9$/ h )
+ we have teacher shortage.

 

[Lila64]

(Benefits are not a huge issue since we are covered through me at the moment.)

Wouldn't this be an issue if you decided to move out of state? Wouldn't you have to look for a new job (preferrably with benefits) as well?

 

[Galeongirl]

I'd say be a sub first, you get treated and paid like shit, but it'll gain you experience. It would look good on your resume and will get you connections, so you can get a better job easier.

 

[Got Philk?]

Wouldn't this be an issue if you decided to move out of state? Wouldn't you have to look for a new job (preferrably with benefits) as well?

Well, if we move out of state, that would mean I had a teaching job and I would provide the bene's.

I still don't know what to do, but this all could be unnecessary since, I don't really have that second job yet. I haven't found out.

 

[martha]

Both options sound good, but subbing would be better for actually getting a job. I subbed for many years and got to be well-known around the district. That helped me get the job I have now a mile from my house.

Subbing gets your foot in the door; if you're any good, and can actually teach, principals will be happy to see you show up in the morning. Your good reputation will make it easier to get that full-time job when it's available. People retire, get sick, get married, move away. A job or two will open up, maybe not this year, but next fall. If you've subbed and made a name for yourself, they'll remember you and want you on their staff.

Where can your Michigan credential take you? Which states will take a credential from Michigan? Didn't you go for special ed? Everyone wants special ed teachers.

 

[Laura M]

Come to Europe. In my country teachers are federal employees and they earn very well (to much in my opinion, I mean for what they do...it seems like the good payment barely helps them with their motivation; I think it's the same motivation when you get 9$/ h )
+ we have teacher shortage.

Where do you live? I'm teaching in Europe and I'm sure it would be a different situation if I could speak the language here and work in other schools but I've heard lots of negative things from teachers about their (previous) jobs in this country. And the pay, well ours causes a lot of friction. We take home slightly more than Phil would if he subbed 5 days a week.

I would say do the subbing work.

 

[Got Philk?]

It seems that overwhelmingly, the feeling is subbing. Ok, I'm going to ask you all this one more time. Subbing has helped many get jobs in the area in which they subbed in, so for me, it would be beneficial if I wanted to stay here in Michigan. Am I right so far?

Ok, I have no desire to stay in Michigan. Then...would subbing help me get jobs in states down south? Like North Carolina, Florida, Mississippi or Texas?

Martha, Michigan Certs can go a lot of places. I'm don't know all the states, but those above would work, some east coast, and the west states as well. Cali, New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado...etc. I'd like to live anywhere but here.

 

[Liesje]

Wouldn't this be an issue if you decided to move out of state? Wouldn't you have to look for a new job (preferrably with benefits) as well?

Yeah, but we wouldn't move unless one or both had a full time job with coverage. That would be a criteria for the job so we would not accept jobs without coverage (and I'm not sure how many employers can even get away with full time employees and no benefits?).

I say para-pro. I said subbing at first, but the pay is equal between the two, and I think he would be offered some benefits for the para-pro, not for subbing. He has a sub gig tomorrow but as far as I know, no one has called for anything else....

 

[martha]

It seems that overwhelmingly, the feeling is subbing. Ok, I'm going to ask you all this one more time. Subbing has helped many get jobs in the area in which they subbed in, so for me, it would be beneficial if I wanted to stay here in Michigan. Am I right so far?

Subbing will be beneficial anywhere you go. And to be honest, subbing is all you may get for a while unless you're in the right place at the right time.

Martha, Michigan Certs can go a lot of places. I'm don't know all the states, but those above would work, some east coast, and the west states as well. Cali, New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado...etc. I'd like to live anywhere but here.

I'd avoid here in Cali right now. I know some very good teachers who still haven't gotten full-time position yet, and they got their credentials a year or two ago. Also, we still don't have a budget here (it was due in June), so who the hell knows what will happen. Do one ton of research about the economies of the states where you want to go. Sure, people will keep having kids and those kids will need to learn how to graph equations, but budgets decide how many of those kids are in each classroom, and then how many teachers are needed. I do know New Mexico and Arizona don't pay shit and they require a Master's, which California does not require.

 

[Got Philk?]

I don't thin Lies would let us move west anyway. I'm thinking south, where yes...there just happens to be the most special education jobs in the country.

 

[Liesje]

Man I can't handle the subbing. So he gets up at 6:30 and sits by his phone...waiting....? He's been on a sub list since early-Dec. but has only subbed once or twice. I wonder how many people need subs right now after 2 weeks of vacation? There is something to be said about a full time job with an end date (so it's not like he's committing to something he plans to bail) and a steady income.... Unless someone needs a long-term sub in the next few days I still say para-pro b/c the bottom line is I cannot afford to pay my $600/mo loan payments (on top of rent and all the utilities) AND Phil's.

 

[Got Philk?]

Ok, but the thing that you don't know because I never have brought it up is that I can go on the website and search for jobs.

The thing is, that means about a thousand others are probably sitting at home clicking the "search" button, and I know from experience that you have literally seconds before someone snatches up that job.

However, if you get called and people like you, you become a favorite and they will call again.

But...for para-pro position...I really like this school, I love the students at this school and I like the fact that I will get to actually teach. I know I'd probably teach while subbing as well, but not the same as having the same students every day.

I still don't know. Too many positives on both sides.

 

[Laura M]

I don't thin Lies would let us move west anyway. I'm thinking south, where yes...there just happens to be the most special education jobs in the country.

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about where you might be living. If you're a good teacher, people will recognise that and want you. Even though I am not that content with where I am now I am being constantly reminded that it's experience and I can always use it to my advantage when applying for other jobs. If you really can't hack the subbing though, go with the other job. It's still experience for the future. No matter what job you decide to take, you can still talk about that experience in a positive way in any interviews you'll get. It also means you're still working with teachers who can act as referees for you.

 

[martha]

But...for para-pro position...I really like this school, I love the students at this school and I like the fact that I will get to actually teach.

This sounds pretty sweet.

 

[achtung_girl]

Where do you live? I'm teaching in Europe and I'm sure it would be a different situation if I could speak the language here and work in other schools but I've heard lots of negative things from teachers about their (previous) jobs in this country. And the pay, well ours causes a lot of friction. We take home slightly more than Phil would if he subbed 5 days a week.

I would say do the subbing work.

I live in Germany, and teachers are held in high esteem here. Ok, some deserve the good payment/ having tenure/ 10 weeks of vacation, but some don't care about their students. (due to reasons above)

 

[kassandra]

Speaking as a teacher I think subbing is better for experience and your own PR. Teachers are pretty influential on who gets hired in their building and if you do a good job with the classes, start getting requested and maybe do a leave replacement (pregnant teachers are the best to do leaves for, sometimes they do not come back for a few years!) your chances of being hired are very good. Working as an assistant is good if there is noting else but it is limiting, unless the district hires their TA's.

 

[samralf]

Ok, but the thing that you don't know because I never have brought it up is that I can go on the website and search for jobs.

The thing is, that means about a thousand others are probably sitting at home clicking the "search" button, and I know from experience that you have literally seconds before someone snatches up that job.

However, if you get called and people like you, you become a favorite and they will call again.

But...for para-pro position...I really like this school, I love the students at this school and I like the fact that I will get to actually teach. I know I'd probably teach while subbing as well, but not the same as having the same students every day.

I still don't know. Too many positives on both sides.

Sounds like you want to do option #2. Getting up at 6:30 and waiting on that phone call gets old real fast. My mom does it and I think she worked one day the past couple of weeks. I'd go with option 2.

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

Sounds like you want to do option #2. Getting up at 6:30 and waiting on that phone call gets old real fast. My mom does it and I think she worked one day the past couple of weeks. I'd go with option 2.

I dated a guy once who was a substitute. At the time he was living with his grandparents and so he'd get up for the call, if he didn't take the job we'd take the day off together. I was temping at the time, also living at home, so it worked out. I could never imagine doing that now, though.

Option 2 sounds like a plan. Good luck, Phil!

 

[Marien]

I live in Spain and I was a principal in a high school till last September, I can tell you I would never have given a permanent post to a teacher who hadn't got at least one or two years experience as subtitute, unless the teacher had worked in my school and I could have evaluated his skills and the students and parents acceptance. Most of the teachers get their first permanent post this way, so even if you want to move I think the sub is a good idea. Round February we usually get the long term subtitutions coming from pregnant teachers who want to enlarge their time at home connecting it with the summer holidays, so now it's a good time to get a longtime substitution, but I don't know how long new mothers take off work in US.
On the other hand I think that you feel better about the para-pro post, if it is so, you could try it this school-year, decide where you're going to live and get prepared to do the subs next year, but I wouldn't delay it much more, a mature substitute doesn't give the right impression to employers, you know you always think:Why hasn't he been able to get a permanent post yet?

 

[Bonochick]

I could guess on what sounds like the better option, but I'm not all that knowledgeable about this, so I will merely address this:

...but I don't really want to stay in Michigan.

Hey!

Good luck with either option though...or whatever other option may arise.

 

[Liesje]

a mature substitute doesn't give the right impression to employers, you know you always think:Why hasn't he been able to get a permanent post yet?

How does that work though, if you are advocating for being a sub for 1-2 years? Doesn't that imply turning down permanent positions in favor of being a day-to-day sub? So why would they want to hire someone that was a long term sub AND think it's bad someone subbed long term and couldn't get a job? There's the long term sub positions (like pregnant teachers, medical leave, etc) but that would be no different than his para-pro position, which is already decidedly Jan - May (as in, it's a short term position, not that he plans on quitting in May) and the pay is the same. In the summer he does a program with mentally and physically disabled young adults. He subbed before Christmas and is subbing all week. I originally said for him to sub rather than para-pro, but he's never getting and calls for special ed and that's really the whole point, he went back to school to get a degree in special ed and is less interested than a permanent gen. ed position or a lot of subbing in that area.

Like I should talk though, I have a degree in communications and yet I fix laptops in a basement cubicle