Sociopaths among us..

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kafrun

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We all know at least one in our lives, we just may be unaware that they are what they are. When you realize it, though, it explains SO much. It was very freeing for me to recognize it in certain people I've known and I hope others may find this information helpful, because everyday sociopaths can be draining at best, and very dangerous at worst. They are human parasites. The best thing we can do is arm ourselves with knowledge and awareness. :)

Do you know someone who fits this profiile? Do you think you might? Discuss.

An excerpt from: Profile of the Sociopath

Psychopath. We hear the word and images of Bernardo, Manson and Dahmer pop into our heads; no doubt Ted Bundy too. But they're the bottom of the barrel -- most of the two million psychopaths in North America aren't murderers. They're our friends, lovers and co-workers. They're outgoing and persuasive, dazzling you with charm and flattery. Often you aren't even aware they've taken you for a ride -- until it's too late.

Psychopaths exhibit a Jekyll and Hyde personality. "They play a part so they can get what they want," says Dr. Sheila Willson, a Toronto psychologist who has helped victims of psychopaths. The guy who showers a woman with excessive attention is much more capable of getting her to lend him money, and to put up with him when he strays. The new employee who gains her co-workers' trust has more access to their chequebooks. And so on. Psychopaths have no conscience and their only goal is self-gratification. Many of us have been their victims -- at work, through friendships or relationships -- and not one of us can say, "a psychopath could never fool me."

Think you can spot one? Think again. In general, psychopaths aren't the product of broken homes or the casualties of a materialistic society. Rather they come from all walks of life and there is little evidence that their upbringing affects them. Elements of a psychopath's personality first become evident at a very early age, due to biological or genetic factors. Explains Michael Seto, a psychologist at the Centre for Addiction and Mental health in Toronto, by the time that a person hits their late teens, the disorder is almost certainly permanent. Although many clinicians use the terms psychopath and sociopath interchangeably, writes psychopath expert Robert Hare on his book 'Without Conscience', a sociopath's criminal behavior is shaped by social forces and is the result of a dysfunctional environment.

Psychopaths have only a shallow range of emotions and lack guilt, says Hare. They often see themselves as victims, and lack remorse or the ability to empathize with others. "Psychopaths play on the fact that most of us are trusting and forgiving people," adds Seto. The warning signs are always there; it's just difficult to see them because once we trust someone, the friendship becomes a blinder.

Even lovers get taken for a ride by psychopaths. For a psychopath, a romantic relationship is just another opportunity to find a trusting partner who will buy into the lies. It's primarily why a psychopath rarely stays in a relationship for the long term, and often is involved with three or four partners at once, says Willson. To a psychopath, everything about a relationship is a game. Willson refers to the movie 'Sliding Doors' to illustrate her point. In the film, the main character comes home early after just having been fired from her job. Only moments ago, her boyfriend has let another woman out the front door. But in a matter of minutes he is the attentive and concerned boyfriend, taking her out to dinner and devoting the entire night to comforting her. All the while he's planning to leave the next day on a trip with the other woman.

The boyfriend displays typical psychopathic characteristics because he falsely displays deep emotion toward the relationship, says Willson. In reality, he's less concerned with his girlfriend's depression than with making sure she's clueless about the other woman's existence. In the romance department, psychopaths have an ability to gain your affection quickly, disarming you with words, intriguing you with grandiose plans. If they cheat you'll forgive them, and one day when they've gone too far, they'll leave you with a broken heart (and an empty wallet). By then they'll have a new player for their game.

The problem with their game is that we don't often play by their rules. Where we might occasionally tell a white lie, a psychopath's lying is compulsive. Most of us experience some degree of guilt about lying, preventing us from exhibiting such behavior on a regular basis. "Psychopaths don't discriminate who it is they lie to or cheat," says Seto. "There's no distinction between friend, family and sucker."

No one wants to be the sucker, so how do we prevent ourselves from becoming close friends or getting into a relationship with a psychopath? It's really almost impossible, say Seto and Willson. Unfortunately, laments Seto, one way is to become more suspicious and less trusting of others. Our tendency is to forgive when we catch a loved one in a lie. "Psychopaths play on this fact," he says. "However, I'm certainly not advocating a world where if someone lies once or twice, you never speak to them again." What you can do is look at how often someone lies and how they react when caught. Psychopaths will lie over and over again, and where other people would sincerely apologize, a psychopath may apologize but won't stop.

Psychopaths also tend to switch jobs as frequently as they switch partners, mainly because they don't have the qualities to maintain a job for the long haul. Their performance is generally erratic, with chronic absences, misuse of company resources and failed commitments. Often they aren't even qualified for the job and use fake credentials to get it. Seto talks of a patient who would get marketing jobs based on his image; he was a presentable and charming man who layered his conversations with educational and occupational references. But it became evident that the man hadn't a clue what he was talking about, and was unable to hold down a job.

How do you make sure you don't get fooled when you're hiring someone to baby-sit your child or for any other job? Hire based on reputation and not image, says Willson. Check references thoroughly. Psychopaths tend to give vague and inconsistent replies. Of course the best way to solve this problem would be to cure psychopaths of their 'illness.' But there's no recipe for treating them, say psychiatrists. Today's traditional methods of psychotherapy (psychoanalysis, group and one-on-one therapy) and drug treatments have failed. Therapy is more likely to work when an individual admits there's a problem and wants to change. The common problem with psychopaths, says Sets, "Is they don't see a problem with their behavior."

Psychopaths don't seek therapy willingly, says Seto. Rather, they're pushed into it by a desperate relative or by a court order. To a psychopath, a therapist is just one more person who must be conned, and the psychopath plays the part right until the therapist is convinced of his or her 'rehabilitation.'

Even though we can't treat psychopaths effectively with therapy, it doesn't mean we can't protect ourselves, writes Hare. Willson agrees, citing the most important factor in keeping psychopaths at bay is to know your vulnerabilities. We need to "realize our own potential and maximize our strengths" so that our insecurities don't overcome us. Because, she says, a psychopath is a chameleon who becomes "an image of what you haven't done for yourself." Over time, she says, "their appearance of perfection will begin to crack," but by that time you will have been emotionally and perhaps financially scathed. There comes a time when you realize there's no point in searching for answers; the only thing is to move on.
 
lol :panic: :panic:

It's fascinating when you go through the checklist and one or two or even more people that you know stand out, way out. I'm quite certain a family member is one of them. It's like suddenly a lightbulb goes off and everything makes sense.
 
Phil had a kid in his class this past year that I refer to as The Sociopath. I've met him and I have nothing against him but every time Phil would describe his problems he sounded like a sociopath in the making. :(
 
I'm pretty sure I once worked with a psychopath. Then again, I worked in a ultra-competitive environment that could make anyone a psychopath. But he was so sneaky, manipulative and callous that I really think he could've been one of those people.
 
g8-leaders-404_685950c.jpg
 
Phil had a kid in his class this past year that I refer to as The Sociopath. I've met him and I have nothing against him but every time Phil would describe his problems he sounded like a sociopath in the making. :(
That's kind of scary to think that they start that young, though there's a debate as to whether it's nature or nurture that causes it. They've done studies on sociopaths' brains and they literally do not work the same as ours. I don't know, I'd think that would suggest it's something you're born with/as.

Creepy.

I'm pretty sure I once worked with a psychopath. Then again, I worked in a ultra-competitive environment that could make anyone a psychopath. But he was so sneaky, manipulative and callous that I really think he could've been one of those people.
Yes, some people are just jerks. You have to wonder, though, when people have absolutely no regard for the consequences of their actions and are otherwise charming and pleasant to be around. RED FLAG! Stay away.


Yes! Love it.
 
Yeah, that's gotta be rough. How do you love somebody who's clearly got this type of sickness. Or, if you don't, how do you reconcile that you don't love your family member. Eh, I don't know. I've asked myself that many times.
 
That's kind of scary to think that they start that young, though there's a debate as to whether it's nature or nurture that causes it. They've done studies on sociopaths' brains and they literally do not work the same as ours. I don't know, I'd think that would suggest it's something you're born with/as.

I am happy to believe that these people are wired different from the get-go. This kids' home life is far from perfect but a lot of kids have turned out a lot better from a lot worse. The child can go from a normal, respectful kid to dangerously impulsive and violent in seconds. He seems to swing between extremes (and is described as bipolar but is too young for a formal diagnosis). He has no self-preservation instinct and does things that are mean and dangerous to other kids, but he seems to do them without any impulse control or empathy. It's not that he's a bully, it's like he is incapable of understanding that throwing a rock at your friend's face is a bad idea. I think that is what makes a person like this dangerous. He can't really be punished because that doesn't sink in. It's like he's physically incapable of understanding that his behavior is dangerous and unacceptable. But then other times he is a sweet and polite little boy. When I met him, he didn't do anything bad or impulsive. He was very talkative and had trouble waiting his turn but that's nothing. I allowed him to handle one of my dogs which is saying something.
 
We all know at least one in our lives, we just may be unaware that they are what they are. When you realize it, though, it explains SO much. It was very freeing for me to recognize it in certain people I've known and I hope others may find this information helpful, because everyday sociopaths can be draining at best, and very dangerous at worst. They are human parasites. The best thing we can do is arm ourselves with knowledge and awareness. :)

Do you know someone who fits this profiile? Do you think you might? Discuss.

An excerpt from: Profile of the Sociopath

Psychopath. We hear the word and images of Bernardo, Manson and Dahmer pop into our heads; no doubt Ted Bundy too. But they're the bottom of the barrel -- most of the two million psychopaths in North America aren't murderers. They're our friends, lovers and co-workers. They're outgoing and persuasive, dazzling you with charm and flattery. Often you aren't even aware they've taken you for a ride -- until it's too late.

Psychopaths exhibit a Jekyll and Hyde personality. "They play a part so they can get what they want," says Dr. Sheila Willson, a Toronto psychologist who has helped victims of psychopaths. The guy who showers a woman with excessive attention is much more capable of getting her to lend him money, and to put up with him when he strays. The new employee who gains her co-workers' trust has more access to their chequebooks. And so on. Psychopaths have no conscience and their only goal is self-gratification. Many of us have been their victims -- at work, through friendships or relationships -- and not one of us can say, "a psychopath could never fool me."

Think you can spot one? Think again. In general, psychopaths aren't the product of broken homes or the casualties of a materialistic society. Rather they come from all walks of life and there is little evidence that their upbringing affects them. Elements of a psychopath's personality first become evident at a very early age, due to biological or genetic factors. Explains Michael Seto, a psychologist at the Centre for Addiction and Mental health in Toronto, by the time that a person hits their late teens, the disorder is almost certainly permanent. Although many clinicians use the terms psychopath and sociopath interchangeably, writes psychopath expert Robert Hare on his book 'Without Conscience', a sociopath's criminal behavior is shaped by social forces and is the result of a dysfunctional environment.

Psychopaths have only a shallow range of emotions and lack guilt, says Hare. They often see themselves as victims, and lack remorse or the ability to empathize with others. "Psychopaths play on the fact that most of us are trusting and forgiving people," adds Seto. The warning signs are always there; it's just difficult to see them because once we trust someone, the friendship becomes a blinder.

Even lovers get taken for a ride by psychopaths. For a psychopath, a romantic relationship is just another opportunity to find a trusting partner who will buy into the lies. It's primarily why a psychopath rarely stays in a relationship for the long term, and often is involved with three or four partners at once, says Willson. To a psychopath, everything about a relationship is a game. Willson refers to the movie 'Sliding Doors' to illustrate her point. In the film, the main character comes home early after just having been fired from her job. Only moments ago, her boyfriend has let another woman out the front door. But in a matter of minutes he is the attentive and concerned boyfriend, taking her out to dinner and devoting the entire night to comforting her. All the while he's planning to leave the next day on a trip with the other woman.

The boyfriend displays typical psychopathic characteristics because he falsely displays deep emotion toward the relationship, says Willson. In reality, he's less concerned with his girlfriend's depression than with making sure she's clueless about the other woman's existence. In the romance department, psychopaths have an ability to gain your affection quickly, disarming you with words, intriguing you with grandiose plans. If they cheat you'll forgive them, and one day when they've gone too far, they'll leave you with a broken heart (and an empty wallet). By then they'll have a new player for their game.

The problem with their game is that we don't often play by their rules. Where we might occasionally tell a white lie, a psychopath's lying is compulsive. Most of us experience some degree of guilt about lying, preventing us from exhibiting such behavior on a regular basis. "Psychopaths don't discriminate who it is they lie to or cheat," says Seto. "There's no distinction between friend, family and sucker."

No one wants to be the sucker, so how do we prevent ourselves from becoming close friends or getting into a relationship with a psychopath? It's really almost impossible, say Seto and Willson. Unfortunately, laments Seto, one way is to become more suspicious and less trusting of others. Our tendency is to forgive when we catch a loved one in a lie. "Psychopaths play on this fact," he says. "However, I'm certainly not advocating a world where if someone lies once or twice, you never speak to them again." What you can do is look at how often someone lies and how they react when caught. Psychopaths will lie over and over again, and where other people would sincerely apologize, a psychopath may apologize but won't stop.

Psychopaths also tend to switch jobs as frequently as they switch partners, mainly because they don't have the qualities to maintain a job for the long haul. Their performance is generally erratic, with chronic absences, misuse of company resources and failed commitments. Often they aren't even qualified for the job and use fake credentials to get it. Seto talks of a patient who would get marketing jobs based on his image; he was a presentable and charming man who layered his conversations with educational and occupational references. But it became evident that the man hadn't a clue what he was talking about, and was unable to hold down a job.

How do you make sure you don't get fooled when you're hiring someone to baby-sit your child or for any other job? Hire based on reputation and not image, says Willson. Check references thoroughly. Psychopaths tend to give vague and inconsistent replies. Of course the best way to solve this problem would be to cure psychopaths of their 'illness.' But there's no recipe for treating them, say psychiatrists. Today's traditional methods of psychotherapy (psychoanalysis, group and one-on-one therapy) and drug treatments have failed. Therapy is more likely to work when an individual admits there's a problem and wants to change. The common problem with psychopaths, says Sets, "Is they don't see a problem with their behavior."

Psychopaths don't seek therapy willingly, says Seto. Rather, they're pushed into it by a desperate relative or by a court order. To a psychopath, a therapist is just one more person who must be conned, and the psychopath plays the part right until the therapist is convinced of his or her 'rehabilitation.'

Even though we can't treat psychopaths effectively with therapy, it doesn't mean we can't protect ourselves, writes Hare. Willson agrees, citing the most important factor in keeping psychopaths at bay is to know your vulnerabilities. We need to "realize our own potential and maximize our strengths" so that our insecurities don't overcome us. Because, she says, a psychopath is a chameleon who becomes "an image of what you haven't done for yourself." Over time, she says, "their appearance of perfection will begin to crack," but by that time you will have been emotionally and perhaps financially scathed. There comes a time when you realize there's no point in searching for answers; the only thing is to move on.



I dated someone that fits the description completely. 5 years of my life sucked away. 5 years of trying to believe someone and believe in them but only to find that they were nothing more than a selfish sociopathic sick person. It's a rude awakening to be sure.

They are well versed at games of the head and heart. They turn the tables on any of the damage they cause and make it out that is they that are the victim. They will justify that 'others have made them this way by doing this to them'.

The sociopath is a master at justification. They have no empathy. They don't care about the damage they leave behind. They are a master at lies and deceit. Not a heartfelt apology is to be found.

You will find any actual apology is hollow... and usually followed up by more of the same bad behaviour for which they just apologized.

The sociopath does this often.

I wish I knew then, what I know now. The tears, sleepless nights, heartbreak and emptying of my bank account could have been avoided.
 
The sociopath is a master at justification. They have no empathy. They don't care about the damage they leave behind. They are a master at lies and deceit. Not a heartfelt apology is to be found.

. . . this lack of empathy and the ability to look you in the eyes and just fill the air with bullshit, and believe in it themselves, is what scares / scared the hell out of me *shudder*

and E_O :hug:
 
. . . this lack of empathy and the ability to look you in the eyes and just fill the air with bullshit, and believe in it themselves, is what scares / scared the hell out of me *shudder*

and E_O :hug:

Thankie Purple.

And you are completely right.

The things I heard... the stories... the lies... to the point of having to say: You get that I dont' believe a fucking thing you say, right?

When I think of her, there lyrics comes to mind:

"You put your lips to her lips
To stop the lie"

But finally... I just had to go away and not deal with her. She's around. I've see her in GA lines at shows. But I avoid her. Just better that way. She reminds me of nothing more than absolute sadness. Sadness for what she did to me. Is what it is.
 
I am happy to believe that these people are wired different from the get-go. This kids' home life is far from perfect but a lot of kids have turned out a lot better from a lot worse. The child can go from a normal, respectful kid to dangerously impulsive and violent in seconds. He seems to swing between extremes (and is described as bipolar but is too young for a formal diagnosis). He has no self-preservation instinct and does things that are mean and dangerous to other kids, but he seems to do them without any impulse control or empathy. It's not that he's a bully, it's like he is incapable of understanding that throwing a rock at your friend's face is a bad idea. I think that is what makes a person like this dangerous. He can't really be punished because that doesn't sink in. It's like he's physically incapable of understanding that his behavior is dangerous and unacceptable. But then other times he is a sweet and polite little boy. When I met him, he didn't do anything bad or impulsive. He was very talkative and had trouble waiting his turn but that's nothing. I allowed him to handle one of my dogs which is saying something.
It's interesting, there are different personality types that may describe this behaviour. Sociopath, psychopath, narcissist, borderline-personality disorder, etc. The violent outbursts may describe more of a psychopath, although the research I've done on these different disorders can be muddled and the lines seem to be a bit blurred between the different types.

The eerie thing is that many sociopaths aren't prone to violence, but they do have the sort of Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde thing going on, in that they can be extremely likeable, pleasant, and appear otherwise normal, while capable of psychological and emotional damage to others that the majority of us would find unconscionable. So the double personality may not be apparent to many, only to those who become tangled up on a more intimate level with such people.

I dated someone that fits the description completely. 5 years of my life sucked away. 5 years of trying to believe someone and believe in them but only to find that they were nothing more than a selfish sociopathic sick person. It's a rude awakening to be sure.

They are well versed at games of the head and heart. They turn the tables on any of the damage they cause and make it out that is they that are the victim. They will justify that 'others have made them this way by doing this to them'.

The sociopath is a master at justification. They have no empathy. They don't care about the damage they leave behind. They are a master at lies and deceit. Not a heartfelt apology is to be found.

You will find any actual apology is hollow... and usually followed up by more of the same bad behaviour for which they just apologized.

The sociopath does this often.

I wish I knew then, what I know now. The tears, sleepless nights, heartbreak and emptying of my bank account could have been avoided.
I know you completely get it. I'm just sorry this is something we have to have in common. :hug:

They are indeed masters of manipulation, especially when it comes to emotions. The thing is, they don't actually feel these emotions, they simply learn to mimic them. Much like a parrot mimics a word, yet there is no meaning behind the word, a sociopath mimics emotions, yet there is no meaning behind it. But oh, they are so good at making you believe they are real.

I might say I wish I knew then what I knew now, but I still hold true to my belief in never regretting anything. Only learning and growing. It is what it is, it was what it was, and all I know now is I've never been happier in my life, so everything in my past - good and bad - led to this moment. :) I do, however, hope what I know can save other people the heartache.

. . . this lack of empathy and the ability to look you in the eyes and just fill the air with bullshit, and believe in it themselves, is what scares / scared the hell out of me *shudder*

and E_O :hug:
This. :hug:
 
It's interesting, there are different personality types that may describe this behaviour. Sociopath, psychopath, narcissist, borderline-personality disorder, etc. The violent outbursts may describe more of a psychopath, although the research I've done on these different disorders can be muddled and the lines seem to be a bit blurred between the different types.

The eerie thing is that many sociopaths aren't prone to violence, but they do have the sort of Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde thing going on, in that they can be extremely likeable, pleasant, and appear otherwise normal, while capable of psychological and emotional damage to others that the majority of us would find unconscionable. So the double personality may not be apparent to many, only to those who become tangled up on a more intimate level with such people.


I know you completely get it. I'm just sorry this is something we have to have in common. :hug:

They are indeed masters of manipulation, especially when it comes to emotions. The thing is, they don't actually feel these emotions, they simply learn to mimic them. Much like a parrot mimics a word, yet there is no meaning behind the word, a sociopath mimics emotions, yet there is no meaning behind it. But oh, they are so good at making you believe they are real.

I might say I wish I knew then what I knew now, but I still hold true to my belief in never regretting anything. Only learning and growing. It is what it is, it was what it was, and all I know now is I've never been happier in my life, so everything in my past - good and bad - led to this moment. :) I do, however, hope what I know can save other people the heartache.


This. :hug:


Thankie.
 
I haven't read through this entire thread yet, but I'll just offer some initial thoughts before I forget. I will read though this at a latter date.

Think you can spot one? Think again. In general, psychopaths aren't the product of broken homes or the casualties of a materialistic society. Rather they come from all walks of life and there is little evidence that their upbringing affects them. Elements of a psychopath's personality first become evident at a very early age, due to biological or genetic factors.

This is where many lay people get confused between psychopathy (or Anti Social Personality Disorder) and neurological mental illnesses such as schizophrenia. Most people with genuine mental illness are more of a threat to themselves rather than others, and if they do try to hit out at other people, it's usually because they feel threatened and see their actions as self defense. It's like a usually gentle dog who's poorly and needs to be taken to the vets. Sometimes they can bite. On the other hand there are those who say that a bad upbringing is a lame excuse to justify horrendous crime associated with psychopathy.

For me, I tend to view personality disorders as being different from many other mental disturbances. I think that a lot of it has to do how an individual constructs and interprets what happens to them throughout life. I do think that some people are unable to control their emotions and impulses.

I do think that out of the full check list on the WHO diagnostic criteria for ASPD dictators would tick all boxes, serial killers will just miss 1 or 2 criteria's and then you get fraudsters, gangsters,etc. I don't want to go into a long story but I'm pretty sure that my former upstairs neighbor had ASPD characteristics. T cut a long story short the last time I saw him was before he was arrested and held on remand for GBH on his own baby son. I'm not the only one who suspects that there must be a reason why he was refused bail and held in remand for so long.
 
...likes to talk about what they eat...

...include verbal stumbles like "um" and "ah"...

...fixations on food and money...

...frequent use of subordinate conjunctions like "because"...



Holy crap :ohmy:

you might be a sociopath if....
 
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