Should I say something

[Doozer61]

I don't know how to make this short and sweet but I will give it a try.

Caron has a 16 year old daughter that is very negative about everything in life. She is also very spoiled by her grandmother and has no concept of what its like to want anything. She is verbally abusive to the grandmother and to Caron on almost a daily basis.

The child is failing school, has dropped out of dance and only wants to be on the computer or hanging out with her friends. Caron has her in therapy and has tried several different ways to talk to her but it always ends up in a major confrontation.

They have tried the reward system, taking things away, grounding, etc. but nothing seems to work because she doesn't really give a shit about anything. She is always in a foul mood.

I understand that some 16 year olds are like this but its so horrible that I don't even want to be around it. Which is why I don't go over there when she is home. It is the whole broken home, father abandonment issues, troubled teen thing that I really don't understand.

But now she has taken up the habit of lying. Well, she was already lying to Caron about things like all kids do but now she has taken it to a different level. Last week at a function that they went to, she told some younger teens that she was using crystal meth. They told their parents and so on and so on. Of course she denied it when confronted about it last night. But how do we know?

Then we find out that this weekend she told Caron's mom that Caron and I were planning on selling Caron's house and moving away when she is 18 so she has to be on her own.

I have no clue where that came from. And I really wanna take this kid and show her that I am really not as calm and serene as she thinks I am. Caron was sobbing on the phone, telling me about this because it ended up in another confrontation.

I don't know what to do. I am completely at a loss. Caron and I spend most of our time talking about this kid. And we don't even get that much time to spend together because of her. I have tried to be her friend and stay out of it but it is effecting our relationship and now the kid is telling lies about me. What could be next?

I really wanna go over there tonight and give her a piece of my mind.

 

[BAW]

You are in a really tough position with this kid. She's obviously got major problems that were there before you came into the picture.

I don't know if I would confront her or not because you're likely to get major backtalk and of course "you're not my mother" but then again, she might gain a little respect for you if she knows she can't push you around.

What would Caron's reaction be if you sat the kid down and told her straight out that you don't appreciate her talking behind your back, especially when she's making things up?

 

[Doozer61]

I don't know. It's funny because we talked about me getting more involved yesterday before any of this happened. I am at a loss and I can't say I wouldn't lose my temper.

I just want to shake her silly, you know?

 

[BAW]

Oh, believe me...I know EXACTLY how you feel right now. I have wanted to shake someone silly more times than I can count.

I may not have any answers for you but I can certainly offer plenty of empathy.

 

[Liesje]

Sounds like she has MAJOR issues. Is Caron stern enough w/ her? I never EVER EVER would've EVER dared to act like that for even five seconds around my parents, and they're nice, reasonable people. I mean, if I talked smack like that in front of my parents about anything, they'd never let me use the computer AGAIN and probably tell me to pack my bags and get the hell out if I wasn't going to get a job and pass school. I had a good friend in high school who was a liar, she had no self confidence and the only way she felt in control was to spread lies so people would come to her for gossip. She stole money, she didn't do anything and barely passed. Her mom got sick of dealing with her and she never changed. I finally told her I couldn't be her friend if she didn't DEAL with herself. Now she's stuck bagging groceries all day, still living at home, and she thinks her life is perfect Some people honestly need a wake up call. If Caron HAS been stern and drawn some lines without letting up, this girl needs to go to some camp to get professional help so she's straightened out.

 

[anitram]

This is one messed up kid, definitely. The fact it sounds like she has very little empathy for other people is not only troubling, but dangerous.

I'm really not sure I can give you advice, because she is already almost an "adult" (in years, not maturity), and that's a very difficult place for you to step in and attempt anything that can be construed as parenting.

Tough situation for everyone.

 

[Mr. BAW]

Its quite simple actually; she believes that with enough of her shit, you'll bail and then she has mom all to herself, again.........

did you see that somewhere else, like Jenny E. trying to wedge Char out of my life...she still does it....gotta let 'em know its not gonna happen. be strong.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I think in order to encourage someone to be a better person, you have to tell them that they are a good person. I don't know exactly what I would say, but I would suggest being as supportive as you can.

 

[martha]

Has she been evaluated by a physician? Sometimes chemical imbalances can contribute to behavior like this. A psychiatrist may be able to help.

Meanwhile, this child had been allowed to call the shots at home for so long, and it works so well, what's her motivation to stop? I think it may be time for someone to let her know that her lying and manipulation will no longer be tolerated.

 

[nbcrusader]

What would Caron's reaction be if you sat the kid down and told her straight out that you don't appreciate her talking behind your back, especially when she's making things up?

This is completely fair at a minimum. You have every right to set expectations with her.

It sounds as if she wants to live as/be treated as an adult. Getting her to understand mutual respect is not an easy task at that age.

 

[Doozer61]

thanks for all the thoughts. caron and i talked about it this morning, in fact, i asked her to read this. i am going to talk to her daughter on my own. she has no self-esteem and as much as we try to build her up, she has to believe it on her own.

i know she has fears of me moving in and taking over her mom's time and maybe i need to be the one to tell her that is not going to happen.

right now, she is totally acting out and there has to be some way to get her to understand that in order to get respect she needs to give it to the adult figures in her life.

i don't know. i do know that this child is lost and it is sad to watch.

 

[fah]

Has any sort of counselling been considered?

She might be more receptive if there was a neutral 3rd party who could come up with some ideas.

 

[Doozer61]

Yes, she goes to therapy every friday. caron will call the therapist and tell her the issues they are having and make suggestions for topics however all sarah does in there is talk about her friends. i have asked caron to ask the therapist to act as a moderator between the two of them so they can have a dialogue together but she keeps trying to handle it on her own.

 

[Liesje]

I think group therapy might be more effective. Either her AND Caron, or all three of you if you're willing.

 

[martha]

Or a new therapist.

 

[Doozer61]

yep, thought about that too. or at least getting a family counselor to see both of them.

 

[Angela Harlem]

doozy

 

[Doozer61]

Got home from our trip this afternoon and Sarah had to be picked up near the Queen Mary because she had gone to Catalina with a church group for the weekend. Caron and I planned to watch the Oscars together and make dinner for all of us. I was going to hang out at their house but once I heard Sarah's mood on the phone, I changed my plans and came home.

How can a kid spend a weekend away from home with another group of her peers and come home in a foul mood?

This is typical of most plans we make, changes at the last minute. I don't get it at all.

 

[fah]

yep, thought about that too. or at least getting a family counselor to see both of them.

What about including you in the therapy session

 

[BAW]

Got home from our trip this afternoon and Sarah had to be picked up near the Queen Mary because she had gone to Catalina with a church group for the weekend. Caron and I planned to watch the Oscars together and make dinner for all of us. I was going to hang out at their house but once I heard Sarah's mood on the phone, I changed my plans and came home.

How can a kid spend a weekend away from home with another group of her peers and come home in a foul mood?

This is typical of most plans we make, changes at the last minute. I don't get it at all.

This all sounds way too familiar.

 

[Liesje]

How can someone like that have friends? How long until she turns 18?

 

[martha]

No one's family should be controlled by the foul moods of a teenager. She's successfully manipulating the whole family. It's time for it to stop, either through effective counseling or tough love. Where's her father in all this?

 

[For Honor]

well, the one thing I can say is, (and it is along the lines of Dr Phil), the girls mom can't be too caught up in this.


it's her job to get her through life, to survive, until the girl is 18. That's all. They don't need to be friends.


I didn't quite pick it up, but, just make sure that the mother is not too concerned about having her daughter like her. Sometimes you have to do whats right and have someone get upset with you, but, if the mom explains that she is doing it (whatver she may need to do), that she is doing it because she wants the best for her daughter.

and if her daughter still acts up, then she's just being immature.


I hope things work out.
Just make sure that whoever needs to step up and be strong our tough does so. Rember, the girl is still a kid, and the mom is the adult. Make sure the mom knows that, too.

 

[For Honor]

How can someone like that have friends? How long until she turns 18?

well, for better or worse, I'm a cynic when it comes to a lot of todays youth. (I sound like an old man......... )

anyhow, it seems like a lot of our culture today either promotes or enables that kind of behavior.




I guess I still feel, like above, that some tough love is probably needed. And yeah, where is her father?

(not that the mom can't be "tough" on her own, or anything)



On thing that I like, personally, is questioning maturity. I think this is sort of an odd thing, and it's just something I like to do anyways, so don't take this paragraph too serious, as it's more of a personal "thing that makes me tick". I'm a stickler for maturity, but maybe if you just address the girl as acting like a child, or the old phrase "if you act like a kid you'll be treated like one".


No matter what, actions must have consitent consequences.

Even if they are harsh, they must be consitent.

And it's up to the parents to be consitent and strong.

Kids are looking for boundries, and if those boundries are not consitent, then they get confused.

I don't know what the reason for the girls behavior is, but I'll look back and try to find it. But those above few lines are sort of gerneralized guidelines that I've learned from a few places.


best of luck,
and be strong

 

[For Honor]

thanks for all the thoughts. caron and i talked about it this morning, in fact, i asked her to read this. i am going to talk to her daughter on my own. she has no self-esteem and as much as we try to build her up, she has to believe it on her own.

i know she has fears of me moving in and taking over her mom's time and maybe i need to be the one to tell her that is not going to happen.

right now, she is totally acting out and there has to be some way to get her to understand that in order to get respect she needs to give it to the adult figures in her life.

i don't know. i do know that this child is lost and it is sad to watch.

Oh, I didn't see that........

hmm.................


So she has low self esteem......
those are the most complex kinds of things, and I know, because someone very close to me, and older than me, suffers from major esteem issues and depression.


I'll forward all my comments to a real counselor, because I don't know enough about the situation to really be of much help.



But some simple thoughts are: make sure she has a positive social environment where she feels like she has a purpose and is needed. Try to get her involved with something. Her dropping out of that group activity is a sign.

And I guess you need to find out what the root all all this is.
You can spend a life time on curing the end results of a problem, but you really need to get to the source.....

(hmm....... that's sort of like the inverse of "if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you teach a man.........")


Any how, good luck.
The situation sounds a little more complicated that I originally thought, and being uber-tough might not be the best startegy......
I'm sure that if the goal of making her life better is made clear, things will work out.

 

[Liesje]

well, for better or worse, I'm a cynic when it comes to a lot of todays youth. (I sound like an old man......... )

anyhow, it seems like a lot of our culture today either promotes or enables that kind of behavior.

I guess I still feel, like above, that some tough love is probably needed. And yeah, where is her father?

(not that the mom can't be "tough" on her own, or anything)

I agree. And I think it says something since you're what like 18 and I'm only 20 myself. It really gets under my skin when people get away with such behaviors. No wonder the world has such a negative opinion of the youth of our culture. If I'd ever tried to play any of those stunts on my mom, I'd get my assed kicked (literally) and 24 hrs to find a new place to live and someone else's life to destroy. This girl needs a reality check, like, yesterday.

 

[Doozer61]

Where's her father in all this?

Probably still sitting in the same place he was when Caron left him a year ago. A Budweiser in one hand and a remote in the other.

He is emotionally unavailable to his daughter. He wanted nothing to do with her from the moment she could talk. I don't think he ever told her he loved her until Caron left him. Then he wanted to see her and talk to her all the time but it was too late. This guy never went to any of her dance recitals nor did he make an effort to go to her 8th grade graduation!

Sarah hates him and does not want to talk about him at all.

As for her friends, they all seem really nice, although its a revolving door because she can hate you in a minute. She's all about the drama, which is typical at that age.

Caron is trying to be tough and her biggest problem is consistency with the rules she has set. She gets tired of the confrontations and then starts to let things slide. She definitely knows that she is supposed to be the mom and not the friend.

 

[Liesje]

Caron is trying to be tough and her biggest problem is consistency with the rules she has set. She gets tired of the confrontations and then starts to let things slide.

Well there you have it.

 

[Doozer61]

Well there you have it.

I know. This is where we begin to argue because I can be tough and she can't. She uses the old "pick your battle" routine and it drives me nuts.

That kid needs a boot camp right now and I know her mother is part of this problem. That's the hard part about it. And I struggle with it all the time.

Because at some point, it is much easier for me to just leave and come home. It is a vicious cycle.

 

[BAW]

In Caron's defense, having a kid who acts like this is hard for other people to understand. When you do have a moment of peace with them or when they actually seem to like you, its only natural to want to keep it that way. It is wrong to give in to avoid confrontation but sometimes you just have no energy left to fight.

I've been on both sides...as the mother of a troubled kid and as the wife of someone with a troubled kid. It's hard to be on either side. You either feel defensive because the person you love dislikes your child (for obvious reasons) or you feel like a second fiddle because you always come second after a child who demands all of your partner's attention.

I guess I'm just trying to say that I know how Doozer and Caron both feel...it sucks