Please tell me what you think?

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JCOSTER

JCOSTER

ONE love, blood, life
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
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It's a very, very mad world.
My 3 1/2 year old neice is having a problem by constantly peeing in her pants. No matter what my bro and sis in law do she does it like 7-8 times a day.

Now when she was in the womb the doctors saw something with her urinary track on the sonogram and said that they would have to watch it. After she was born they said everything was fine.

That is until the potty training started. I had suggested that they take her to a urologist especially since the doctors thought there might be a problem before she was born. They took her for a sonogram and the technician thought that they saw something on her xray. She doesn't have an appointment until June 4th. My sis in law will bring my neice and the sonogram. So we won't know until then.

My bro and sis in law say that she is doing it for spite. I personally don't think she could do it on spite 8 times a day.

My neice is a lovely little girl, my bro and inlaw in my opinion can't handle being parents and yell at her over every little thing say bad things about her in front of her and to other people too. They never give her any praise for anything. I try to do things with my neice and have her at my house so she doesn't get yelled at 100 times a day. They way her parents are nasty and fresh mouthed to her is the same way she is to them. I never have any problem with her except for the usual 3 year old stuff.

Yesterday, my sis in law told me that my neice peed on the floor again and my sis in law took her by the hair and put her face to it like you would a dog who peed on the floor. I can't even begin to tell you how upset I am over this. I didn't even do that to our dog!!! Now my neice may have a very valid medical condition that would require a surgery or medication. I have told her parents that many a time that they should have patience with her until they know what the doctor says.

I would like to know, what constitutes abuse, are they verbally abusive cause they yell all the time and never praise her. Putting her face in pee on the floor and asking her if she liked the smell.

I am so upset about this and need advice, I don't want to talk to my brother and seem like the mother know it all.

So, please tell me what you think. I would appreciate it.

Thanks :(
 
I'd call that abuse, especially considering how they treat her the rest of the time. How awful for her, and it's no wonder she talks back to them. That's probably the only way she knows how to communicate. The thing is, I'm not sure if you can report it if you didn't see it yourself. Still, if you're truly concerned, I'd suggest contacting child services. If you do this, though, do be prepared for them to cut you out of their lives completely.

You might consider sitting down and trying to talk with them about your concerns. Maybe you could find information about parenting classes offered in your area, and if there's a fee, offer to pay for them?

What a lousy situation. I hope things get better.
 
As a parent, and an aunt to many nieces and nephews, as well as someone who has been educated in the field, yes, that's abusive. As I'm sure you know, there are so many things wrong in the scenario you describe.

I feel badly for you and the position you are in, and I feel absolutely awful for your niece. :( :hug:

What steps are you thinking of taking?
 
That is most definitely abuse and I have to say what your sister in law did angers me! Im so sorry that you are in this position JC :hug:. Feel so sorry for your niece too as she does not deserve this abuse as no child ever does. She is not able to help that she has a medical condition. Im sure your she wishes that she didn't constantly wet herself like this.

I hope something is able to be done soon so this can stop :hug:
 
Sometimes children wet themselves because of the trama and anxiety they are living in.
Sticking her head in any type of fluid in a fit of anger could be grounds for removal of the child from their home.
But even if it's not true and I'm not doubting her at all, it's a sticky situation. If it's not proven, then I'd be really afraid of the danger she might be in.
You need some good advice on this one. If you have a child advocacy center in your area, maybe you could find out what would be best to do.
It just makes me want to cry, that poor little girl. :sad:
 
I dont think a 3 1/2 year old can even spell spite, let alone comprehend it. They want talking to these parents. If theyre prepared to do that to the kid then you dont know what theyre doing without you knowing. There may be a more sinister reason behind the childs problem, such as trauma as mentioned.
 
That's DEFINITELY abuse! I think that's shocking&terrible - to treat a 3 year old like that, i'm sorry but i think that's just awful :| :( :sad:
 
OMG JC that's horrible! I feel so bad for your poor niece and she is only 3-1/2! She is definitely being abused physically, mentally, emotionally and verbally. It sounds like there's an underlying medical condition with her altho her situation in the household with the abuse is most liekyl causing a great deal of anxiety which could exacerbate the issue. Some authoritative figure or organization should be called in to mediate before things really get ugly, I hope things can be changed for the better. Shame on those adults for the damage they are doing to their daughter at a time when she needs nurturing, love, understanding, patience and sympathy. :hug:
 
JCOSTER said:


My bro and sis in law say that she is doing it for spite. I personally don't think she could do it on spite 8 times a day.

.....

They never give her any praise for anything.

.....

Yesterday, my sis in law told me that my neice peed on the floor again and my sis in law took her by the hair and put her face to it like you would a dog who peed on the floor.
Click to expand...

Good Lord! OK, I've babysat and nannied for my fair share of children and also train dogs and it's abuse in BOTH cases! It does NOT work to train dogs this way, nor children. Neither do these things out of "spite". What horrible things for them to do/say!!

You are right, she's never going to learn unless she is being reinforced.

Not to mention that there is clearly something medical going on...

I'm sorry you are in this position. I'm all about teaching kids respect and discipline, but to me this is psychological abuse.
 
VintagePunk said:
As a parent, and an aunt to many nieces and nephews, as well as someone who has been educated in the field, yes, that's abusive. As I'm sure you know, there are so many things wrong in the scenario you describe.

I feel badly for you and the position you are in, and I feel absolutely awful for your niece. :( :hug:

What steps are you thinking of taking?
Click to expand...

This situation is very difficult, it not only deals with my neice but my parents as well.

I love my brother dearly, and as a brother (my only one) he is great. As a dad, I personally think he sucks.

I had a similar relationship with my own mother. Although my mother never did anything like to me. I would swear that my bro married someone very similiar to my mother. I've overcome alot of issues and instead of repeating the same mistakes with my own kids I went in the totally opposite direction of disciplining my kids, even though they are still young and can drive you crazy as kids do, they are well mannered, great kids (plug).

I couldn't even imagine calling social service....My mother and I plan on talking to my brother and trying to get help for him and his wife. They certainly do need some kind of anger management and or parenting classes.

Thanks everyone for your words of wisdom, it always helps to know that what your thinking isn't crazy.

I love the support you can get here!
 
What you're thinking isn't crazy, but it isn't as complicated as you write it either, from a completely clinical standpoint (which is necessary when you are considering the welfare of a minor). Yes, the whole family are involved in various ways (as in your parents, the girls parents, etc are interested parties), but as an issue of child welfare it is really straight forward. It's because of it being your family that it is hard to seperate the people from what is happening.

I really hope you are able to get someone to help you take it as far as it needs to. Naturally you may not be in a position to do so yourself, but you are noticing enough to even write about it on here asking for the opinions of strangers and your friends.
 
JCOSTER said:
I couldn't even imagine calling social service....My mother and I plan on talking to my brother and trying to get help for him and his wife. They certainly do need some kind of anger management and or parenting classes.
Click to expand...

And what if they don't think they need help or classes?

Would you then consider calling social services?
 
JCOSTER said:



I couldn't even imagine calling social service
Click to expand...


Right now, she's grabbing a 3 year old by the hair and sticking her face in urine on the floor...what next? What do you consider a serious enough form of abuse to consider calling social services?

Not to lay a guilt trip on you, but do you realize how many kids continue to be abused because family members don't think it's their place to report the abuse?

If your brother and his wife aren't receptive to anger management or some type of parenting classes and this abuse continues, you and everyone else in your family need to do whatever it takes to protect your niece, or she is going to grow up and wonder why none of the adults in her life stepped in when they knew she was being abused.
 
It sure sounds like abuse to me. Talk to them (the sooner the better) and see if they are willing to get help. If they aren't willing to do that I think you have to take your concerns to social services/child welfare.

A difficult situation for you, but it's worse for your niece.

:hug:
 
I just want to add that I didn't intend to sound harsh or preachy in my previous reply, but this is a subject that I'm very familiar with and it's horrible to be that child that suffers when adults don't want to make waves or upset other family members.

I also understand that you can't completely alienate yourself from your brother and sister-in-law because that would cut you off from your niece and she needs you right now...it's a really hard place to be, I know :hug:
 
how awful for your neice and for you , yes it definatley constitiutes abuse and neglect, you do not have to see it yourself, you have neough information to make a report to your state welfare aithority and i hope you do so soon for the sake of your neice, no child should have to suffer like that as it can be doing irreprible damage. i know its hard because its family but please please do something, or at the least see if you can get her to a dr yourself. good luck .
 
I agree with BAW...


I just worked in a mild cognitive impaired classroom. This is a special education classroom, but if you were to look at many of the kids, you wouldn't be able to tell.

My point is this, there were 11 kids, and half of these children were in the classroom pretty much only because of abuse and neglect in those young developing years.

I agree with whoever said, "Right now its grabbing by the hair...what's next?"

However, I also agree that you are in a horrible position right now. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.
 
Thanks everyone, I do appreciate all of your thoughts and honesty on the issue. Alot of things are easily said than done. Although, I would take my neice and her little sister who is only 8 months and raise them myself if I had to. With my sister in laws family there would be a battle beyond battles. My mother who wasn't all that when I was younger, told my brother that if something else happens my parents will call someone and that I am willing to take the girls in.

In response to that, my brother told my parents that he spoke to his wife and that if she ever did anything like that again or if he found any type of marks on my neice that he was taking the girls and leaving.

I really wish my brother would divorce her and take the girls. My mother said that they would never give him sole custody, I said well I would be ready to tell the authorities everything.

So I will take it from there. My neice is so smart and beautiful in away I am hoping that she would mention it to her preschool teacher. The teacher would then most definately have to follow up on it.

My neices behavior towards her parents is horrible as well. But in her defense she is like a parrot and copy everything they say and do. They have created her behavior from their own.

Things will change when my sis in law gets some major help and then my brother.

I will be on the look out and be ready to take them into my home whenever need be.

sorry I'm rambling on, it's not like I don't have a family to take care, now I have to worry about 2 irresponsible grown ups.
 
It sounds to me like there's enough info from you already that would convince any judge or social worker to allow your brother to have sole custody. But id he also has issues dealing with the girls that's scary. Maybe this is going to take a group effort for the best interest of the girls. Maybe it would be good for the school authorities to know what is going on at home? They could at least be on the look out for any strange behavior? Just a thought. Your bro and Sis in law are actually lucky that you are willing to take the 2 girls into your already busy home, JC. I give you TONS of credit for being so caring and loving. But it's family and there are still many who will do anything to keep family safe and together. I guess we can all only hope that whatever your mother said and whatever your brother said to his wife will be what it takes to change behaviors and turn things around on a positive note. Still I feel for your poor little niece. :hug: and :pray:
 
JC, it's good that your brother is going to speak with his wife, but in my opinion, from what you've said, he sounds like he is a large part of the problem himself.

While the physical incident you described is horrible, if taken in isolation as a one time thing, I don't think it's going to cause irreparable harm (IF that's the only incident that became physical - I'm betting it's not). However, the constant yelling, put-downs and berating of the child will cause harm. As well, it sounds as if both of them are denying that the child's urinary incidents could be part of a valid medical problem, and instead are subjecting her to extreme punishments for it. That is horrifyingly irresponsible behaviour for a parent.

Can he really be trusted to keep an eye on things, to set his wife straight, when he's part of the problem? It doesn't sound like it to me. Of course, I have no knowledge of these people, I'm sitting here judging from a couple of paragraphs. I think you really need to ask yourself that, though.

Again, good luck. She's fortunate to have you looking out for her welfare. If only every abused child had someone like that in their lives. :hug:
 
Carek1230 said:
Maybe this is going to take a group effort for the best interest of the girls. Maybe it would be good for the school authorities to know what is going on at home? They could at least be on the look out for any strange behavior? Just a thought. Your bro and Sis in law are actually lucky that you are willing to take the 2 girls into your already busy home, JC. I give you TONS of credit for being so caring and loving. But it's family and there are still many who will do anything to keep family safe and together. I guess we can all only hope that whatever your mother said and whatever your brother said to his wife will be what it takes to change behaviors and turn things around on a positive note. Still I feel for your poor little niece. :hug: and :pray:
Click to expand...

I'm hoping for the same thing, I totally understand that we all "loose it" once in awhile...I am hoping that my brother will stand firm on what he said, and he knows that I would back him 100%.

A part of his behavior is stress due to my sis in laws behavior.

My neice is only in preschool, 2 days a week for 2 1/2 hours so not much would be noticed. My neice does have a good habit of letting you know what goes on in her house, she's very smart and runs her mouth a bit.

Thanks for you kind words too, I would do anything I can for my neice and her little sister, I feel as though they are my own.
 
VintagePunk said:
JC, it's good that your brother is going to speak with his wife, but in my opinion, from what you've said, he sounds like he is a large part of the problem himself.

^ Like I said before his behavior and shortness with his daughters are due to his wifes behavior.

While the physical incident you described is horrible, if taken in isolation as a one time thing, I don't think it's going to cause irreparable harm (IF that's the only incident that became physical - I'm betting it's not). However, the constant yelling, put-downs and berating of the child will cause harm. As well, it sounds as if both of them are denying that the child's urinary incidents could be part of a valid medical problem, and instead are subjecting her to extreme punishments for it. That is horrifyingly irresponsible behaviour for a parent.

I am very sensitive to what is going on since my mother was the same way with constant yelling, put downs and berating me. She didn't do it as much to my bro. Years after years of this my self confidence was 0. Thanks to a good therapist for a few years it helped me deal with things. I have to say that now as she got older she has humbled and we a decent relationship. I am able to look past the bad and now I can remember that we did have good times. But, I don't want my neice to feel the same anguish I did and wait until she is 40 to actually know who she is.

Can he really be trusted to keep an eye on things, to set his wife straight, when he's part of the problem? It doesn't sound like it to me. Of course, I have no knowledge of these people, I'm sitting here judging from a couple of paragraphs. I think you really need to ask yourself that, though.

If my brother knows that my family and my parents have his back I think he will stand strong.

Again, good luck. She's fortunate to have you looking out for her welfare. If only every abused child had someone like that in their lives. :hug:
Click to expand...

Her and her sister are like the daughters I never had. :wink:

Thanks again for all your wisdom.
 
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