Please, I need someone to help me. I has to do with religion.

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Gloria Jeans milkshakes are truely revolting. The rest of their menu may well be okay, dunno, I havent tried it personally.

The Hari Krishnas food is excellent. It is second to the Hindu restaurant though :drool: Mind you I havent been there in ages. I hope its still there.

We, in the West, do get the best cult induced cooking. We had The Rajneeshees, and what do you get? - HillsongJeans plastic milkshakes. :spew:
 
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I've never set foot in any coffee shop, ever. One day I will overcome my fear of ghee and really start cooking proper krishna food.
:drool: wow im hungry now. time to go shopping for casserole ingredients.
 
u2bonogirl said:
It seems that God has instilled a natural seeking device in humans to look for truth :wink:

seeking the truth is the right thing to do. But everyone must keep an open mind, because you might realize that one day what you thought was the truth is not as complete as you once did. But I am a firm believer that one of the most destructive and "evil" things in the world is a narrow, closed mind that refuses to see open.
 
Halifax said:
It goes further. The pastor continued by saying “Buddha isn’t worthy, Mohammed isn’t worthy, Confucius isn’t worthy, you are worthy lord!”



Worse still, the pastor continued by saying that those who don’t accept Jesus Christ, and those who don’t accept the Christian religion, will for ever suffer eternal damnation.


Halifax :)

I feel the same way you do about several things. But first, whoever is responsible for those statements about Buddha or Mohammed is definitiely out of line. Someone else posted it well, but essentially, this "man" has no right to judge in that way. He is not god, is he?

I don't really know how he can say those things and expect to go to "heaven" on a clean sheet. In fact, things like that make me wonder about a lot of things...


---------


In regards to other religions, I always found that I have been drawn to more Zen like things. I would say Buddhism, but I don't know it well enough. I appreciate Christian values, but I have never had a real desire to confirm myself.


I talk to god everynow and then.
My definition of god is more like a relative, older, who is always there. I don't think he is going out of his way to make sure I do this or not, nor do I think I should go out of my way to praise him. We get along well. I accept reality, and I don't blame him for anything. As far as God goes, I just ask him questions - things I don't understand sometimes.

I think walking around with a someone being crucified is disturbing and grand at the same time. I think if people remeber that to live is to suffer (Buddism and Christianity), then they will be fine. But "suffering" isn't a bad thing. It just is.

I think the attitude of being damned, or forsaken, or in constant suffering, or pain, or hell is sort of foolish. But this is all my personal philosophy, so it is irrelevant to the thread essentially, so I apologize.



----------------


I was just going to say "basically, anyone who says a religion is wrong can't justify one is right". But then I considered, perhaps, a religion that endorses raping a woman, and there is no way I would ever say that is a valid religion. But at the same time, if that is what you truly believed.....


It reminds me of a debate I've seen over "form and function"...


I don't think one religion is right or wrong, but you can't really "compel" others into your beliefs. A religion should be personal, and not universal.



"I am the god of the universe"
obviously you are not, since the universe doesn't worship you.


That is going off topic again.....
My lasting point is, religion is okay, just as long as you don't use it to justify your actions on other people. You must be able to understand other peoples religions/thoughts and consider them, otherwise you don't have any right at all to say yours what is proper for them.
 
Hmm...sounds like I described "Hillsong" to the letter...without knowing what it was until after I wrote my post.

Melon
 
Halifax,

If anyone should not be a Christian...it's me. I went to a 'Christian' school with a screwed-up Pentecostal theology like Hillsong and years of repeated injustices were followed-up with Bible versus used to justify them.

I was well and truly a hardened atheist by the time I'd left school but 'love rescued me' somehow and U2 and Bono became important to me.

My best advice is to treat everything to do with church with skepticism...especially wankers like Brian and Bobby Houston. Read what Christ said and did, let the Holy Spirit speak to you and guide you, and form your own opinion and establish your own relationship.

Hillsong's is a widely discredited church. Ask yourself...do they follow Christ? Does their extravagance reflect the man who had nothing to his name but a cloak, loincloth, belt and sandles? Does their welfare ministry honour what Jesus asked for when He called on us to care for the helpless? Does their arrogance reflect the man who broke down so many barriers between people.

I gather you're in Sydney? There is a diversity of Christian communities for you to choose from...unlike where I am out in the sticks.

Even I at the moment am questioning the comfort, community and enlightenment that Bono, U2 and U2 fans have given me for many years. Sometimes we can rely on these things too much.

My advice is to focus on Christ, let Him, His message and His life speak to you and guide you.
 
He told me that Jesus was devastated that humans would “break away” from him and start creating new and alien ideas.

But don't most of the world's religions PRE-DATE Christianity? Gimme a break!!!

I agree with what everyone else is saying here. I have always thought that at the very least religion should bring peace of mind, and this is just causing the opposite with you. :hug:

My boyfriend went to a Catholic school. A Jewish girl was attending the school because it had very good accademics. The Nun would say to her "It's not too late for you, but your parents are going to hell!" And make her cry. This kind of thing is so cruel. Isn't religion supposed to be welcoming and reassuring??

This is why I am an Agnostic too. There's lots of things that lead me to believe there is a God, and maybe even Christianity is right, but there are an equal number of things to make me think it's baloney. I don't feel I know enough either way. I continue searching. I even as God to give me some guidance but there continues to be nothing but confusion. :sigh:

All this is to say that you should get away from these extremists asap and find a group that teaches and nurtures you, and doesn't give you nightmares. :hug:
 
Mrs. Edge said:


But don't most of the world's religions PRE-DATE Christianity? Gimme a break!!!


Yes, but christianity is based on the new covenant God made by sending his son to die for us, therefore making a new system :)
Im not arguing with you just pointing a theological fact as far as Christianity goes :yes:
 
Mrs. Edge said:
My boyfriend went to a Catholic school. A Jewish girl was attending the school because it had very good accademics. The Nun would say to her "It's not too late for you, but your parents are going to hell!" And make her cry. This kind of thing is so cruel. Isn't religion supposed to be welcoming and reassuring??

I think there's a special place in hell for those who make statements like that.

Melon
 
Thanks guys once again with all the continuation of replies, even the idea of a religious cult comprised of lifeguards and Johnny Depp fans :lol:. Most of all, thank you very much for your guidance. :hug:

Right now, I’m still searching in the spiritual side of my life. I guess I still have some personal things within me that I have to wrestle with. Perhaps my main problem with Christianity is the notion of eternal damnation. I remember a poster on the “Bono’s views on eastern religions” thread I started, a poster came up and said:

“Let's just make this clear: You reject Christ and refuse to believe in him, you go to hell. Read John 14:6 sometime.”

This statement almost made me cry. I fear for my father (who passed away sometime ago) and I also fear for myself and my family, who are all Agnostic/Buddhists. I acknowledge Jesus Christ and I accept him into my life. I would like to someday go back to Christianity, but statements like these always turn me off. Its almost exactlt what this “Christian youth group” is preaching.

Hay, if anyone else is interested, there is a book called “Living Buddha, Living Christ” where a Vietnamese Buddhist monk named Thich Nhat Hanh attempts to bridge the gap between Christianity and Buddhism and Jesus and Buddha. I highly recommend anyone too take a read of it someday: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...102-5735189-0019340?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
 
Halifax said:

Right now, I’m still searching in the spiritual side of my life. I guess I still have some personal things within me that I have to wrestle with. Perhaps my main problem with Christianity is the notion of eternal damnation. I remember a poster on the “Bono’s views on eastern religions” thread I started, a poster came up and said:

“Let's just make this clear: You reject Christ and refuse to believe in him, you go to hell. Read John 14:6 sometime.”

This statement almost made me cry. I fear for my father (who passed away sometime ago) and I also fear for myself and my family, who are all Agnostic/Buddhists. I acknowledge Jesus Christ and I accept him into my life. I would like to someday go back to Christianity, but statements like these always turn me off. Its almost exactlt what this “Christian youth group” is preaching.


Aarrgghh! :mad: Yeah. I didn't read the thread you mention, but I'll comment on that post in the context of this thread. I think that poster is overly confident in his or her view. While that might work for that particular poster, why anyone else would consider it true is beyond me.

I believe that absolutely no one in this world knows for sure what, if anything, awaits us after death. I don't think anyone in this world knows for sure if god or gods exists. And if we don't (I believe we are not capable of knowing these things even) know if god/gods exist, we certainly can't know the true nature of that god/gods, what said god (s) wants from us, or how that god (s) feels about us. The poster you quoted thinks he or she knows these things, and believes the Bible backs him/her up. But that person's belief is no more valid than anyone else's and the Bible is no more valid than any other religious tome.

Everyone thinks his/her belief is the best, is the truth or at least the closest to the truth, but mere belief, no matter how strong, does not make something true. Ultimately what we each believe (in a religion/god/afterlife kind of way) is what comforts/makes the most sense to each of us.

If there is a god and a heaven and hell and all that, I can't imagine a loving god damning good people for not being Christians (or whatever other religion the person saying you're doomed to hell is pushing). I can't imagine a god being that petty.
 
I've been following this thread with a heavy heart, watching your struggle, and I've written replies and deleted them. But the same thoughts keeps coming back to me.

1. None of us can judge your father's life, and determine his fate. Christians (like all people) are imperfect and follow Christ imperfectly. I'm frequently offended by other Christians, but I also count many Christians as my best friends and no better source of care, comfort and growth. It would be nice if they were more winsome in how you've received this information. I hope you'll be able to forgive them.

2. There is one truth. Whether it's Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism or nothing at all, there is only one truth. It doesn't change because you create a vision of God and Heaven that suits your preferences. Because a religion teaches something that makes you uncomfortable, doesn't make it any less valid. It's the creator's rules, not ours.


3. If the religion you choose to associate with believes something and it's doctrinally a bedrock issue, it would be irresponsible for them not to share it with you. Let's say for example, you go to the Doctor's office and during the interview, you tell him that you smoke. It would be irresponsible for him not to warn you that smoking has been linked to cancer. What he has told you is an uncomfortable fact for a smoker, and although it doesn't always lead to cancer, it's his belief that you are in danger and that you should know. Christian pastors and other believers think similarly about your soul. They believe that the Bible is authoritative and that if you don't believe in Christ you will perish. It's a basic tenet of Christianity that belief in Christ is required to go to Heaven. You shouldn't shoot the messenger, instead contemplate the message.


4. If Christianity contains the truth about salvation and eternal life, wouldn't it be tragic if you were to condemn the solution because your father did not embrace it? I had a similar though far less hurtful experience with an ex-girlfriend of mine. We separated because I could not marry a non-christian, and although she tried to believe, she could not trust God (particularly in light of some sexual abuse she suffered when she was young, and in her eyes God didn't save her from it). I was very angry with God because I felt that God had stacked the deck against her, and that others with similar life experiences would have an equally difficult time trusting and believing in God. I could've given up on my faith because God didn't appear to be Just or Fair. But I don't know how the rest of her life is going to turn out, and more importantly, my feelings on the matter are not definitive. My view of how the world works and all the inter-connectedness is well beyond what my mind can handle. I have no idea how God works, and why some are saved and others aren't, but the Bible has much to say about that subject.


5. The Bible says again and again that we deserve nothing, we are sinners against a Holy God, and we deserve damnation for our state of being. None of us can keep the law (the 10 commandments), and when one fails one of the laws he is already a sinner and deserving of God's wrath. I can make an argument that you've failed all 10 commandments based on scriptures in the Bible. I've certainly failed all 10, repeatedly. If it was my standard that I was keeping, I'd be really good, because my standard suits me. I can tailor it to what what the popular culture likes and what fits my brand of justice. But in the end it doesn't matter what I think is good if there is a God that thinks differently. So are you really so good, so righteous as to deserve a place in heaven? My understanding of the Bible is that none of us will ever be righteous enough. And yet, God didn't leave us without a way out. He wants all to be saved, and yet he still gives us free will to make that decision. And many who hear choose to ignore it. So who is at fault when someone goes to Hell? Is it God for not offering amnesty for all men unequivocally or is it Man for not responding to God's call to their lives? Like any parent, you can warn your kids about danger, but inevitably they need to obey for any of your advice to be any good. So if your child puts his hands on the stove after repeated warnings that it is hot, who is at fault? You need to turn the mirror around and look at the world from God's perspective, and not from ours. Ours is a world dimly lit.


Good luck in your search. I come from an obviously Christian perspective, and I believe the Bible to have the answers to these questions. You asked what we thought and these were the thoughts that I've had concerning how your processing your father's death in light of what the church is telling you. I pray that your struggle yields a deeper understanding of truth. It did for mine, but it took a while. Take care.

John 3:16 - 3:18

16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
 
starsforu2 said:
5. The Bible says again and again that we deserve nothing, we are sinners against a Holy God, and we deserve damnation for our state of being. parent, you can warn your kids about danger, but inevitably they need to obey for any of your advice to be any good.

So your God creates us imperfect in the full knowledge (being omniscient, etc) that we will "sin", then tells us we deserve nothing, are sinners, deserve damnation, etc.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure if I can dignify such a being with respect, let alone worship or obsequiance.

My 'Bible' says something quite different, but it's a different type of 'Bible', i.e., live life to the fullest and don't worry about the next one, cos there may not even be one. :mac:
 
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I agree with Indra too. Which is not to say that I am ruling out out Christianity, I am just not capable of believing something so HUGE just because Christians and their book tell me to. We are supposed to make this decision that affects us for all eternity based on stuff that happened 2000+ years ago, and on a book that was "inspired by God" but who knows how much of it is myth and how much is real?

If someone is brought up in a non-Christian religion is it THEIR fault that they aren't Christian? Can't God see that they are simply doing what they were taught to do? Why should they be punished for this?

Just because people over the ages have said the answer is Jesus, that doesn't make them right. What if for example you waste all your energy being a Christian and find out you are going to hell anyway because you were supposed to be Jewish all along? You just can't win, it's a huge game of Russian Roulette.

Stars, I appreciate the smoking analogy, however smoking is based on FACTS that we can all see in front of our noses. Same thing with the hot stove. Religion is based on stories, second hand accounts and hoping for the best (ie faith), and it's a lot trickier.

So your God creates us imperfect in the full knowledge (being omniscient, etc) that we will "sin", then tells us we deserve nothing, are sinners, deserve damnation, etc.

Exactly. It is the most inefficient and unfair system ever. The odds have been stacked against us from the start, and I certainly don't blame people like Stars' ex for raging against God for what happened to her. It's hard enough to believe at the best of times let alone when you have been through abuse.
 
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Financeguy, youre taking what he said in the wrong way.
I think you would have to look from a christian perspective to really understand.
There was a time when man had no sin but that ended. After that sin basically took over. In the Christian doctrine sin is said to "sepatarate" meaning, it separates us from God and from one another.
Think to a time when somebody sinned against you. Said something mean, or stole from you or whatever.
When God sent his son, or himself in human form to die blameless to make up for the sins of others he made a way out. Before that men had to make the sacrifice themselves with cows and goats and things like that.
The idea behind that is if you deserve death for sin, and you make up for it with another life (non human of course) then its been erased from the tab.
Im probably saying all of this wrong, and I apologize. Im not the most eloquent person when it comes to talking about christianity.

What I was getting to is that God never intended for us to sin but it happened, and because of that he had to make a way out for us. Its our choice whether or not to take it because he also gave us free will.
God wants us to love him and you cant force somebody who has no free will to love you. Thats not love
Its has to be given, not taken.
I think i said everything I wanted to say :scratch:
 
i haven't read through all of this thread but i feel the need to comment on the negativity that's being directed towards the "cultish" Hillsong.

I'm relatively familiar with Hillsong here in London, my sister went through a pretty dramatic time in her life about 18 months ago and came out of it a reborn Christian with Hillsong as her church of choice.

Despite not being particuarly religious myself i've visited Hillsong on many occasions and think the wrap it's been given in the press and by the comments on here from people who are unfamiliar with it is unfair.
Hillsong are an incredible church INCREDIBLE!
there is not a church in the world today thats been as succesful in bring young people to the word of God as Hillsong has and from a Christian point of view I don't see how that can be a bad thing?
Hillsong do not stand on the street preaching, they do not force religion down the throat of strangers, they do not knock door to door trying to convert people.
their success lies solely in their presentation of Christianity - the first time i went to Hillsong i was dumbstruck, in awe even. it's like going to a concert (albeit one i myself don't seem to know the words to!) - everyone is on their feet signing bouncing clapping, HAVING FUN! the 30 year old pastor came on and gave a sermon which started with a comment on his new shoes - a flashy pair of red Puma's, got everyone laughing and then went into a basic sermon on material objects etc etc.
young people have never had this opportunity in a church before, other churches are boring, dull and repetative in comparision.

compared to every other church i've been to Hillsong is a breath of fresh air - if i didn't have so many personal walls blocking my own path to faith, Hillsong is the church I'd be attending and worshipping at without a doubt!

everyone is friendly, helpful, chatty, concerned for others etc etc. which is probably exactly why it has developed this cultish reputation - think about it, if you're in the street and someone random comes up witha huge smile on their face and starts a conversation with you "hey, how you doing, what's your name?" you're gonna get a little creeped out and run away correct?
well Hillsong is just like that, they're all friendly almost to a fault, they all want to know who you are, what you're doing here, how are you today, is there anything they can help with. I mean one week some guy sent in his prayer where his car had broken completely, he needed it for work but he couldnt afford a new one. next week, the church and its members gave him a car. i kid not.

thats what these people are like, they want to help, they want everyone to feel the joy they feel in Jesus Christ and believe me, these people love Him like i have never seen anywhere!

and yes, from an outsiders point of view its daunting to see all these young people so deeply immersed in their religion, there are no half measures at Hillsong - you cant' attend there regularly if you're half interested in Christ or if you're still deciding, its just too full-on for that.

personally it was difficult initially to try adjust to the changes in my sister when she became deeply religious because like the church she became very full-on initially. it was a very very difficult time, but she's mellowed a bit now:) she is however a changed person and for the better by a million times. obviously a lot is to do with her new found faith but i feel none of that would have been achievable without Hillsong, she would never have got to where she is now without the support and stable structure that Hillsong and the members, her friends there offered her. these group meeting you refer to are a support system, filled with people who are friendly and supportive and helpful. its a chance to get to learn the word of God as well as meet new people, make new friends and be in a room where everyone there cares about you and your path with God.

as for the whole "if you dont believe in Jesus and give your life to him you're damned to hell" thing? correct me if i'm wrong but isnt that what all churches teach. i mean from every church i've been to from sunday school up i was taught that if you do not repent your sins and give yourself to God you will go to hell when you die. now i'm not saying a believe it myself but since when is that a new thing and what makes Hillsong bad for saying what every other church has been preaching for so long? is it because they say it with smiles on their face and play some pretty cool music at the same time that makes it cult like? (by the way, the close each sermon with "Beautiful Day")

see thats what bugs me, because a church has found new and enticing ways to attract younger worshippers they're now a cult. thats such bull.
so you're friends had never touched a bible, they went to Hillsong and something there opened they're eyes and now they're religious. I'm sorry, what's wrong with that again?????

and as for the whole converting everyone, i thought that was in the bible too? Isn't that part of your duty as a a Christian, to bring others to the word of God?
the only difference i can see is that i've never seen people so eager to share the love and joy and general happiness they feel and get from Jesus Christ as the members of Hillsong are, so maybe it comes on a bit strong for some people. but as i say, this is a full-on church and while its' not everyone's cup of tea, i dont see anything inherently wrong with that.

well thats my bit anyway
 
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u2bonogirl said:
Financeguy, youre taking what he said in the wrong way.
I think you would have to look from a christian perspective to really understand.

Oh, it's quite possible that I am. It does depend on the perspective from which it is approached, I accept.

As regards Hillsong, from watching programmes about them on TV I never got the impression they were too strict or cultish, maybe it depends on the area or country?
 
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Digsy, you make a really good point in there about the difference between knocking on doors and trying to convert people as opposed to genuinely loving others (which is what christians are called to do)
I personally am not comfortable with knocking on somebodys door and telling them about God.
But if it comes up in conversation I will not shy away from it.
Cool about your sis too :D
 
financeguy said:


So your God creates us imperfect in the full knowledge (being omniscient, etc) that we will "sin", then tells us we deserve nothing, are sinners, deserve damnation, etc.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure if I can dignify such a being with respect, let alone worship or obsequiance.

My 'Bible' says something quite different, but it's a different type of 'Bible', i.e., live life to the fullest and don't worry about the next one, cos there may not even be one. :mac:

I don't understand why God created man who had the capability to do evil, but according to my Bible, Man didn't have to sin and was given one instruction, but he chose not to obey it. :shrug: I imagine (and this is not authoritative, or from the Bible) that if God had created Man with the inability to Sin or the inability to choose whether or not to worship him, then that isn't really adoration we're showing at all, we'd just be puppets. If I had to pay Michelle Pfeiffer to love me, it would lack the satisfaction that her free love would provide.

Fortunately we all have the choice to do what we want, and if you're right, you will have wasted no time in giving creedence to what would amount to Jewish folk lore.

I also plan to live my life to the fullest, and think that I have. I have found that when I think that I've been constrained by my belief system, that I am frequently grateful that I was restrained from doing more harm to myself in the pursuit of things that I previously found great value in. I've also discovered that some of the things I used to value have done far greater harm to me and others than previously understood.

To each his own, I was just adding thoughts to this gentleman's post.
 
financeguy said:


Oh, it's quite possible that I am. It does depend on the perspective from which it is approached, I accept.

As regards Hillsong, from watching programmes about them on TV I never got the impression they were too strict or cultish, maybe it depends on the area or country?

Ive probably taken plenty of things the mormons told me over the years in the wrong way :wink:
Its all about where you're coming from I guess
 
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