Playing Jesus to the lepers in my head

[AttnKleinkind]

Well that's what my parents are trying to do anyways. Ever since they found out I was in a relationship with another girl (I'm a girl too) it has been slightly hellish in my home. Maybe that's an overstatement. But it's been highly uncomfortable at times, and has led to some extremely awkward conversations. My family is pretty conservative Christian, and I consider myself to be a Christian as well, but recently I've been questioning a lot of the beliefs I've been brought up with, and I'm a bit lost/at the very least have diverging opinions from my parents.

I don't really want to say too much about my spiritual struggle regarding homosexuality, because my main rant is going to be about my parents, but I just wanted to say that I've done a lot of reading in FYM, and coming across the many threads that address homosexuality have given me a lot of food for thought. And honestly, reading some posts - particularly Ormus'/ Melon's - have given me such a sense of relief. I still don't know where I stand, but that's more of a larger issue of how to find and know what is truth in general. Anyways.

I'm just finding it to be really hard to deal with how my parents are taking this. I feel immense guilt. My mom now constantly listens to worship music "to get her through this" and there are a variety of spiritual footprints-like things that have been put up through the house, to help with this ordeal. Considering that maybe homosexuality isn't actually wrong is not even an option. I've gotten temporarily banned from watching Degrassi (yeah...it's a guilty pleasure) because it addresses same-sex relationships. But they don't like the "themes" it reinforces. They've said that some things certain tv shows portray as positive aren't actually and I'm still really impressionable, etc. It's frustrating, because I feel like they're making a huge deal out of nothing. Obviously finding out your child is bisexual is hard for parents or whatever, but they live in SUCH another reality. Is Degrassi really going to make me more gay? Is it possible that I just like the show? Or it's refreshing to be exposed to an attitude where it might be okay that I like girls, and maybe I watch it to get away from the alienation I've been feeling at home. And fuck, I'm rambling, but I honestly don't know how to articulate my thoughts, it just feels like there's so much going on...

In regards to them living in another reality, my dad was asking what my girlfriend's mom thought of our relationship. She's absolutely fine with it. My dad found it hard to believe that she would be okay with it, because even if I was sexually active with a guy, apparently he'd be over at his house telling him to lay off his daughter. I know I'm still living at home and all...but I am 19. And of course that's not the most mature age, I realize that, but just...I don't know, isn't that kind of unreasonable?

Now that they know, they're nitpicking everything I do with my girlfriend. If I go over to her house all day, that's bad and I'm abandoning my family, and her family is sucking me away. But when I go to my friend from church's house, it's wonderful that we can get together, and I'm so lucky to have her as a friend. Yeah I spend a lot of time at my girlfriend's house. But if I wasn't working, I wouldn't be doing a whole lot at home. It's not like I'm abandoning my family, I just don't want to be bumming around the house/ I love spending time with my girlfriend and her family is fun and welcoming. All of our friends feel that way, and her house has just always been the place to go to when we get together.

Another nitpicking thing is, my girlfriend called for like a total of two minutes because she was going to her cottage, and was giving me the number in case I needed to talk to her if I was having any troubling (read: suicidal) thoughts. (Long story short, I struggled with depression for a few years before this whole ordeal started. Needless to say, dealing with my parents is the main trigger for any of these thoughts. Fuck, it's so typical. Gay teen kills themselves because of whatever.) Anyways, so my mom said something in the car on the way to work, since I was a bit short on time to get to work, about how "it's too bad that Caitlin called, because that set you back a bit" Okay. That had no effect whatsoever on what time I had supper, what time I chose to choose what to wear, or anything else. You have no idea what she is calling about, because you know, I might be dead if it weren't for her, you have no idea what she's done to help me. Honestly. It's like, just because she's my girlfriend, everything she does is wrong. When in reality, she makes me happier than I have ever been. But no, my parents/ignorant religions have to ruin it. I know I sound incredibly juvenile, and this post is so convoluted, but I just don't know how to deal with this.

I'm also "destroying my life" by being in this relationship. Those were the exact words of my father. Wow. I just...it's the first time I've been happy for so long, and I'm so angry that my parents are ruining it.

I mean, my mom told me during a long and painful conversation about a website she read where a pastor outlined why homosexuality is wrong. Well that's great mom. I can also find a website that's says that it's *not*. So where does that leave us? Also, even if it *were* wrong, a counsellor isn't going to change my view on it. It would have to be me. Or, God, if he indeed has a problem with it. Although I am highly skeptical of the ex-gay movement.

Just, I wish they could appreciate my girlfriend for who she is. A wonderfully intelligent, compassionate, down to earth girl. If she were a guy, they'd be crazy about "him". Why does it have to be this way?

My parents just don't get the point. I told my mom about a conversation we had that she had apparently forgot, when I was in grade 9. I told her I thought I was gay. When she says she doesn't remember this conversation, she says "oh I'm so sorry, we should have sent you to counselling!" I don't know how to get them to understand.

This doesn't make any sense...but it felt good to write out. Thanks for listening, whoever did.

 

[Angela Harlem]

You'll get some good replies from folk in here. I read it, but don't have wise words. I wish you inner peace soon and hope your family back off and let you be who you really are. I fear you won't ever be able to change them, and there is no reason on this earth why you need to change who you are.

 

[phillyfan26]

I think you should respect the fact that they were brought up in a certain belief system. However, that doesn't mean changing who you are. Just understand that they don't think they are hurting you even though they are. It's tough dealing with someone who misinterprets religion. I've always thought the point was to love, not to hate. Be yourself, always.

 

[Irvine511]

feel free to PM me at any point.

first, congratulations. coming out is a long, often difficult process, and you're very brave especially coming from a family that subscribes to a repressive belief system. and you seem to "get" that. you know they're wrong. and they are. but it makes things difficult. i know, and i'm sorry, it's really hard to deal with. but it does get better. know that. it does get better.

this is such a complex thing, and it sounds like you just needed to get some stuff off your chest, so i'm not exactly sure what advice i can give you. i don't know what denomination you are, but if you are anywhere near a big city, chances are you can find a church that is pro-gay who might be able to talk to your parents and speak to them in a language they can understand about the spiritual side of things. my boyfriend comes from a *very* Southern Baptist family, and even in Bible Belt cities there are pro-gay Baptist churches. a simple internet search should help you along. Melon/Ormus is a great resource in this as well, and i wouldn't feel bad about printing out some of his more scriptural emails and passing them along.

it's going to take a lot of time with your parents, it sounds like, and you need to understand that they have to process this as well. it sounds like they are overly dramatic and are more worried about themselves than they are about you. you need to reassure them that you are the same person you always were, you will always love them, and you are certain that God will always love you and that what you need right now is their love and support, their unconditional love and support.

you might want to show them parts of this post. and you also need to know that you are 19. you are an adult. you have a job. if your parents are hurting you and making you feel suicidal -- more on that in a minute -- then you need to consider the option of leaving their house. you are your own person, and it can be difficult to understand, but sometimes people who love us can do us the most damage. they mean well, i'm sure, but they are, plainly and simply, 100% wrong about being gay. counseling -- the kind i'm sure she thinks -- won't help. if they try to send you to some kind of reparative therapy place, leave the house. but counseling with a non-religious professional might help them come to terms with having a gay daughter.

they probably aren't at this point yet, but there's a *terrific* organization called PFLAG -- Parents and Friendsd of Lesbians and Gays -- and if you can, bring them to a meeting of a local chapter (they are nationwide). or, if you have a sibling, or a close cousin, or aunt or uncle, bring them.

also, look to resources in your town or the closest city. there are times when the internet can be your best friend. find local groups, find faraway groups, and write and make email friends and share your stories. i guarantee you there are people who have been through the same situation you have been through, and hearing how they got through might be a source of strength.

and know that you are never, ever alone. your girlfriend sounds like an amazing person. you sound like an amazing person. there are millions of gay people out there, men and women, who feel your pain and want to help you. there are resources out there as well. just know that the only way you can't live, the *wrong* way to live, they way that you will actually "destroy your life" is if you live in a state of denial, if you repress who you really are, if you live a lie.

you are doing the right thing. be strong. keep writing. keep talking. and always be honest with yourself and with others. if you need to leave for a while, do so. but never stop loving your parents, and never stop talking to them.

and if you ever, ever feel suicidal, reach out to a professional.

some links for you:

http://www.qrd.org/qrd/
http://www.pflag.org
http://www.gaychristianonline.org/
http://www.thetrevorproject.org/home2.aspx

 

[Galeongirl]

Perhaps you should tell your parents that YOU respect what THEY believe in, aka that it's wrong in their eyes, and that they want to live the lives of conservative christians....and ask them why you are not getting this respect in return! if they love you, they should respect you, and your choices in life, no matter if it's against their belief.

 

[AttnKleinkind]

I sincerely appreciate the responses here. It's so refreshing to be reminded that it is my life, and although I need to respect their beliefs I still can't be expected to live to please my parents in every single way. That feels almost like a revolutionary concept to me. Back when all this started I was pretty much just indignant and a bit callous towards what my parents thought so it didn't bother me as it does now; but as I've been working through my own issues and getting out of teen angst/pettinness, I'm a lot more vulnerable to their opinion. It's hard for me to remember to strike a balance between completely not caring and respectfully (and reasonably) being able to express my own opinions and live them out.

Irvine, thank you so much for those resources and your advice. I'm definitely going to look into some pro-gay churches in the area - actually, there's a church downtown that flies a rainbow flag, hmm. And thank you so much for the encouragement, it really, really means a lot.

Oh and also about feeling suicidal, the most frustrating thing is that I had mostly been just getting over those kinds of thoughts. I have made tons of progress in that area, by seeing a professional and working through various cognitive behavioural therapies so that I was able to control my mood swings, and my thoughts. But this whole thing with my parents kind of triggers them again, when I was *just* getting a lot better with it. I know it could be a lot worse - my parents haven't kicked me out, shunned me, or anything of the kind, but it's hard to deal with nonetheless.

Thanks again Angela, phillyfan, Irvine, and Galeongirl; for reading that rant, and also for your very kind and encouraging words.

 

[Irvine511]

Perhaps you should tell your parents that YOU respect what THEY believe in, aka that it's wrong in their eyes, and that they want to live the lives of conservative christians....and ask them why you are not getting this respect in return! if they love you, they should respect you, and your choices in life, no matter if it's against their belief.

but being gay is not a choice. that's what they need to understand, and if you frame the argument as, "well you live your life one way, and i'll live my life another," the parents are never, ever going to get to a place where they understand that there's not only nothing wrong with being gay, but there's nothing one can do about being gay. it isn't a choice, a lifestyle, a preference. it's a sexual orientation as natural as a striaght person's sexual orientation.

the parents need to learn that they are simply wrong. they are wrong to see homosexuality as wrong. it's 100% natural, as natural as being left-handed or having red hair. no one would ever say that being left-handed is "wrong."

so the best approach, i think, is to educate the parents so that they themselves can get to a better place. chances are, they're in a lot of pain due to the poison that oozes out of many conservative Christian communities on this subject. they need to feel better so that they can feel better about themselves as well as their daughter.

they are victims too.

 

[Irvine511]

and although I need to respect their beliefs

i respectuflly disagree with this.

you need to respect your parents. you need to respect the community from which they come that has shaped these beliefs. you need to respect the time that they are going to need.

but the belief itself is demonstrably false and demonstrably harmful, not just to you but to the two of them as well. it's up there with any sort of racist or sexist thought. homophobia is no different.

 

[yolland]

about feeling suicidal, the most frustrating thing is that I had mostly been just getting over those kinds of thoughts. I have made tons of progress in that area, by seeing a professional and working through various cognitive behavioural therapies so that I was able to control my mood swings, and my thoughts. But this whole thing with my parents kind of triggers them again, when I was *just* getting a lot better with it. I know it could be a lot worse - my parents haven't kicked me out, shunned me, or anything of the kind, but it's hard to deal with nonetheless.

I hope you're still seeing whoever it is that was able to help you before, or someone you feel equally comfortable with--if you're not, it sounds like you should be. I don't know what it's like to come out to anyone, let alone one's parents, but I do know what it's like to be around your age and recovering from a long period of being suicidally depressed. The self-doubt and loss of faith in yourself occasioned by finding yourself that helpless and confused are fears you'll need to gain control over in order to get on with your life. I know you know that, but I don't think there can ever be too many reminders that a person who doesn't believe in themself can't heal simply through breaking away from a bad environment and finding new sources of support, invaluable and necessary though those things are.

Irvine is absolutely right about both the dangers of "you must respect their beliefs" and the importance of accepting that you may need to leave your parents' home if they can't come to terms with who you are. I also have gotten the "You don't respect my beliefs!" manipulation from a parent, and it's bullshit. Loving and respecting your parents themselves is good (though something that can be worked on; it doesn't have to fall in place all at once), and I do think anyone who's arrived there--and I know it's not easy--will be able to disagree profoundly with them, and explain why, without self-protectively reviling them. You could, perhaps, describe that approach as "respecting someone's beliefs", and personally I think I would. But equating that "respect" with passively conveying agreement with them, or refusing at all costs to challenge them, makes no sense at all--just think what kind of a world it'd be if everyone saw things that way--and it's a completely unworthy way to seek influence with someone you love (and who loves you). By using that tactic you're deliberately setting a trap for them--pitting their feelings of loyalty and indebtedness to you against their need and right to form their own convictions. You need to articulate that to your parents one way or another if and when they try that tactic, and for the same reason you mustn't do it to yourself. Especially since the "disagreement" in question directly involves something intrinsic to who you are.

I'm a little less certain what to say about your father's comments to the effect that he'd feel no differently if you were in a relationship with a man that included sex, because I'm not in a position to evaluate how honest he's being. I have known some straight young people--all women, probably not coincidentally--who were thrown out by their parents for openly being in a sexual relationship, and even some who were disinherited and otherwise cut off from their parents for "shacking up", as their parents put it, with their boyfriends. That may be an issue that should be addressed separately--especially if you suspect your parents believe that the fact your partner is a woman is somehow the "cause" of your disagreement with whatever views about "fornication" they might hold (granted, same-sex couples can't marry outside of MA anyway, which may or may not be a relevant point for you there). But it does sound as though your parents at least recognize the cruelty of doing something like that.

Only you can know if and when the advantages of removing yourself from an environment that seeks to shame you outweigh the disadvantages of testing yourself in a new one. I worked through most of my "issues" with my one surviving parent (and myself) over many years of self-imposed exile, as I never moved back home after leaving for college at 18. Some parts of the process were sped up because of that...like not having to deal with parental manipulation and shaming when I already felt low...while at other times, I think, it slowed me down--no matter how much a young person hates to admit it, most of them will struggle with despair over the power of a lost relationship with their parent(s) to hurt and haunt them. But it DOES get better, there is light at the end of the tunnel, and there is a future big enough for both of you out there, regardless of the precise form it takes. The important thing right now is to keep working steadily towards real emotional independence for yourself; the rest will fall into place with time. Irvine and others can help you fill in the parts of that which have to do with coming out better than I ever could, but I'm sure of that much.

Good luck and God bless.

 

[Varitek]

I second what Irvine said about "respecting their beliefs." Respect them, love them, but if their beliefs hurt you, cause your parents to hurt you, if you know they are wrong, you do not need to respect their beliefs. You need to respect yourself and who you are, and it looks like you are well on your way to doing that.

 

[LemonMelon]

At your age, it is completely, totally understandable for you to be testing your sexuality. Don't label yourself just yet; you have time to grow and change in those areas. Respect your parents' decisions (you really don't have any choice except to complain to them, which they apparently do not wish to hear), and just grin and bear it for now. They want the best for you, but, IMO, they're going about it the wrong way. Seriously, cutting you off from certain programs = brainwashing, which they should be advised to know will only cause you to rebel later. Honestly, that's an awful mistake on their part. TV will not make you gay, but it can make you think, which is something you should be doing quite often at this point in your life. What part of your parents' beliefs are you doubting, exactly?

 

[Irvine511]

At your age, it is completely, totally understandable for you to be testing your sexuality. Don't label yourself just yet; you have time to grow and change in those areas. Respect your parents' decisions (you really don't have any choice except to complain to them, which they apparently do not wish to hear), and just grin and bear it for now. They want the best for you, but, IMO, they're going about it the wrong way. Seriously, cutting you off from certain programs = brainwashing, which they should be advised to know will only cause you to rebel later. Honestly, that's an awful mistake on their part. TV will not make you gay, but it can make you think, which is something you should be doing quite often at this point in your life. What part of your parents' beliefs are you doubting, exactly?

and what's best for the poster is not what her parents want and the bigotries they wish to express, but the freedom to be who she is and to live how god made her. there's no way to grow or to "change" insofar as any heterosexual grows or changes as they become older and wiser.

you're right, too, it's better not to think if you want to remain brainwashed by poisonous religious beliefs. like you. and setting aside the irony of a 16 year old lecuturing adults on sexual orientations (mis)using a Bible, of all things, i'll say that you have plenty of room to grow and change in your religious "beliefs" and life experience will someday swoop in and you'll come to realize the arrogance of your positions and the complexity of the world.

 

[anitram]

At your age, it is completely, totally understandable for you to be testing your sexuality. Don't label yourself just yet; you have time to grow and change in those areas.

Is this really necessary in this thread?

I suppose you haven't yet labeled yourself as straight just yet; you have time to grow and turn gay still.

 

[LemonMelon]

Why do I even bother trying to help...

 

[phillyfan26]

Why do I even bother trying to help...

Well, it's clear from your post in FYM that you know nothing about homosexuality as it pertains to the Bible and religious beliefs. Would it make sense for me to try to help someone with rocket science, when I really know nothing about the subject?

 

[LemonMelon]

Well, it's clear from your post in FYM that you know nothing about homosexuality as it pertains to the Bible and religious beliefs. Would it make sense for me to try to help someone with rocket science, when I really know nothing about the subject?

Would it make sense for an atheist to give Biblical advice to a believer when they both own the same book?

 

[corianderstem]

Just because someone is an atheist doesn't mean they haven't studied the Bible and can speak about it comfortably.

 

[indra]

Would it make sense for an atheist to give Biblical advice to a believer when they both own the same book?

Using that logic -- what are you doing in a thread about homosexuality?

 

[Irvine511]

Would it make sense for an atheist to give Biblical advice to a believer when they both own the same book?

yes.

i'm simply not going to let you harm someone. not in here.

in FYM, fire away.

 

[Irvine511]

Just because someone is an atheist doesn't mean they haven't studied the Bible and can speak about it comfortably.

in fact, many people who have grown up with the bible permeating all aspects of their lives become very genuine atheists.

 

[LemonMelon]

Using that logic -- what are you doing in a thread about homosexuality?

Ahem. And yourself?

The person who made this thread is unsure about their faith and sexuality, so even if that logic applied, it would still be fair game to all to throw in their advice.

Originally post by Irvine
yes.

i'm simply not going to let you harm someone. not in here.

in FYM, fire away.

Bigotry, all of it. This is an open forum, all opinions are allowed, and by believing your own is right and everyone else's is evil, you are being a hypocrite. Can you not see that? Your opinion is as brainwashing as anyone else's is, if the opinions of others are excluded.

 

[BVS]

Why do I even bother trying to help...

But you're not. You're not helping anyone with those posts.

 

[LemonMelon]

A simple question to those who have argued with me for the last page or so:

Why are you arguing with me in an advice thread? Do you honestly think the person who made this thread needs to read all of this crap? Come on now. Not all advice is good, but the point of advice threads are to give a person something further to ponder, even if it may not be comfortable to hear or even something they agree with. We're not here to argue, we're here to help someone else who's hurting. The sad thing is that some of you who have come out on the woodwork to attack me based on previous posts unrelated to this thread, never even bothered to add in your two cents on the topic at hand and have merely added to the chaos.

I haven't insulted anyone. I've kept my temper. All I want is for my opinion to be respected, just as I have respected yours. Have you seen me argue with the advice others gave before me? No. I gave my two cents and came back to find it picked at. Stop selfishly trying to prove your own point and try to help the person who made the thread instead. Why not use that extra energy to add more strength to your own advice/argument rather than tear down mine? It would be more helpful in the long run.

Really, all I want is peace. I don't want to argue anymore. Not here.

 

[indra]

Ahem. And yourself?

That's why I stayed out of it until you put in your lovely bit of "advice." But I actually do have a very clear and personal understanding of the damage the type of crap (and yes it IS crap) you are spewing does to homosexuals, especially closeted ones (which is what you really are telling the initial poster to be), and their families.

So I REALLY hate to read your bigotry couched as "advice." It doesn't help, it is vicious, evil, and never was intended to actually help anyone.

 

[LemonMelon]

That's why I stayed out of it until you put in your lovely bit of "advice." But I actually do have a very clear and personal understanding of the damage the type of crap (and yes it IS crap) you are spewing does to homosexuals, especially closeted ones (which is what you really are telling the initial poster to be), and their families.

So I REALLY hate to read your bigotry couched as "advice." It doesn't help, it is vicious, evil, and never was intended to actually help anyone.

How dare you tell me what I wish someone else to be when you have no clue at all what I'm thinking! Isn't that, hmm, I don't know...a bit judgmental?

OK, I want to clear something up. I am a Christian. You all know this. I have certain beliefs that may differ from yours, and that's fine. However, you clearly have no clue what the purpose of a Christian is here on this earth. My job isn't to judge anyone or make anyone into anything. My job is to tell people about my beliefs, and that's it. I don't hate gays, and, frankly, I don't care if they do stay the way they are, and it ain't my job to change them, either. I'm willing to love them exactly where they're at.

Keeping this in mind, for you to say that I am spiteful towards the topic creator or that I don't care about them simply because my beliefs differ from yours is the height of intolerance.

Look up and read my post above yours and please, please just get this back on topic...otherwise I'm betting it will be closed soon.

 

[anitram]

The person who made this thread is unsure about her...sexuality,

No, that's what YOU surmised thanks to your own prejudice.

 

[LemonMelon]

No, that's what YOU surmised thanks to your own prejudice.

Obviously finding out your child is bisexual

my spiritual struggle regarding homosexuality

Is Degrassi really going to make me more gay?

There's a nice mixture of inner struggle and confusion in there. Referring to yourself as both bisexual and homosexual in the same post while asking if it's actually possible to become more gay is a good sign of confusion.

Nice try.

 

[anitram]

There's a nice mixture of inner struggle and confusion in there. Referring to yourself as both bisexual and homosexual in the same post while asking if it's actually possible to become more gay is a good sign of confusion.

Nice try.

This is absurd. F for reading comprehension.

Out of respect for the OP, I'm leaving this thread. Also because I'm quite frankly revolted.

 

[LemonMelon]

This is absurd. F for reading comprehension.

Out of respect for the OP, I'm leaving this thread. Also because I'm quite frankly revolted.

Wonderful. You've added nothing of substance to this thread but insults anyway. See you later.

 

[Irvine511]

Bigotry, all of it. This is an open forum, all opinions are allowed, and by believing your own is right and everyone else's is evil, you are being a hypocrite. Can you not see that? Your opinion is as brainwashing as anyone else's is, if the opinions of others are excluded.

the second you have any clue what it's like to be gay, you can let me know your "opinion" on the subject.

i am through with tolerating ideas that are garbage. it is garbage to think that the earth is flat. it is garbage to think that the sun revolves around the earth. it is garbage to think that there was no moon landing. and it is garbage to view an unchosen, 100% natural sexual orientation to be some sort of choice or lifestyle, and one that is inherently "sinful" or "immoral" or whatever else one wants to throw at it. i am not going to give the time of day to someone who insists that 2+2=7 simply because that's their opinion. some opinions are better than others because there's more substance behind them. having an "opinion" on homosexuality is an absurdism. it's like having an opinion on having red hair or being left-handed.

no one is stopping you from saying whatever you want. but don't think for a moment you're immune from criticism or that an opinion is worthy of respect simply because someone holds an opinion. i respect everyone's right to an opinion, but i don't respect everyone's opinion.