Judging

[Katey]

in attempts to keep the peace on forums I am post in my thoughts here ..
Some people tend to think when you go on and on about a subject or post statistics or stories related to any particular cause you are preachey or self righteous or whatever.. If your tired of reading things and you think they are posted over and over don't read em.. thats your choice. I wont shut up or stop posting because.. the only .. only purpose of me posting or others I know for that matter is to create awareness and yes it should be in FYM .. because if you reach one more person the before it is better then nothing.. so will I shut up on the topics that I am passionate about.. not on your life..This emergency in Africa is bigger then anyone's perception of who I am so I'm sorry if I come across wrong but this is a cause that is at the root of me.

I hate when we all sit and judge each other and try to decide who is a good fan or not when the reality is we are all different and come about being a fan in different ways..I get my back up when people try and label me put a sticker on me .. I didnt pick the life I was born into but ..I have been blessed for what I have I know I prolly dont deserve any of it , I've spent my whole life trying to equal that out and give that back.. somedays I dont do a very good job of it but I try .. I am in a job where I see the best and worst of people everyday.. the one thing it taught me is to never take anything forgranted and secondly to never judge a book by it's cover .. there are an awful lot of wolves wandering around in sheeps clothing..

I have always been a strong opinionated person .. my weakeast asset is that I don't know when to shut up.. this I know .. if the words come off wrong it is usually never a judgement on anyone but my thoughts..

 

[beli]

Kewl

Im pretty much the same. I dont know what you have said about Africa but I used to work for aid agency so I do understand the (permanent) urgency of many issues in that area of the globe.

I wouldnt worry about the people here. Theres a tonne of really nice warm open minded people and a minority of complete fucking dickheads.

Not that Im judging.

 

[Katey]

ohh I am not worried about people think of I .. other then I think others take it to heart and I'm not out to hurt people's feelings

 

[BluberryPoptart]

But Katey, aren't the people who are telling people it is wrong to comment on Bono's looks in his pictures or the status of the new album while on a political mission (which is what this is about) judging too? When people say things like "nobody cared about my post about his Heart of America film until they found out he was going to be there in person" or "how could you ask him for an autograph when an entire continent is dying? I'd have only discussed Africa!" it IS JUDGING people, insinuating they are less caring, less informed, and even shallow. I don't believe that is true. Many of the girls, and guys, who get a thrill out of the pictures and new album reports care about Africa and send postcards and emails too. But let's face it, the majority of "Bono sightings" and activity are politically related. That's why we don't see much of the other guys. We are fans starved for any sighting, pic, or piece of news on the new album. If we have to see and hear this because he is in the news for one of his speeches, I do not feel that makes anyone a bad person, or a 'total dickhead.'

What the thread on PLEBA was saying is, if you and a few others are so upset to see people excited over seeing pictures of Bono and people asking him about the album while he is on his way to a political meeting, maybe PLEBA is the wrong place to get your news. The guys on EYKIW also become annoyed when some people try to make them feel guilty for asking about the album instead of Bono's latest speech. It leaves the impression certain individuals feel superior, or self righteous, and that they are better human beings and better fans than the person who wants to see the pics or hear about the music. I calll THAT judging, and I don't think it's fair at all. There are many other people who are involved in Bono's same causes who do not frequently shove it in people's faces (especially when everyone here already knows it!) and use it to send people on guilt trips. I don't think Bono would like that either, and I'm sure he'd understand the excitement of a fan who has his favorite rock star come to his town and doesn't want to miss the chance to get an autograph. (which is what happened that started this, and this guy by the way is a moderator on this forum!)It doesn't make him a bad guy, or shallow, just because Bono was on his way to speak about AIDS. Even Bono himself hints at the tour during his speeches!

 

[beli]

Oh is that the history.

I know the mods disagree with me but I think theres a very distinct tone to all the forums. FYM and Goal is for serious discussion. PLEBA and EYKIW is for fan/music worship. IO and Lemonaide stand is for being an idiot (my favourite places) .

The mods will disagree but I have found the hard way if you mix up the tones in the forums it can lead to a slaughtering.

Perhaps, only a suggestion, and I dont really know the history of all this so my opinion is completely without merit, perhaps you can make your Africa threads in FYM?

I agree with your comment about reaching more people. In the real world I think this can work well by having stalls at supermarkets and nightclubs and rallies. But on the internet you dont have to pitch so far. Make your statement and people who are interested will come.

I know it can be frustrating if you believe in something and not many people are listening. I was involved with Rwanda years before the disaster hit. Screaming my head off regarding impending doom but not many people were interested until it really sank and there were lots of pictures of people dieing. The truth is horrible. The only way I found to deal with the agonising pain of this kind of thing was to hang out with like minded people eg Oxfam, Amnesty etc. We all used to go out to the pub on Fridays together and commiserate (sp?)

I dont mean to judge you, you just sound like a younger me thats all. If you want my advice, which Im sure you dont but Im an opinionated little s@#t and will give it anyway. Join a local awareness group in real life. You can still post to FYM but a local group may be able to give you a more productive outlet for your passion. Cause gawd knows we need you and your ilk to "maintain the rage"

 

[Liesje]

Personally, I like to think of it as "If I were in his place...." For example, if I were Bono and came to a place on my own to discuss AIDS and AIDS only, I would find a screaming bunch of fans thrusting pics in my face to be autographed completely inapropriate. But that's just me. If you'd be OK with this, then that's cool too. I'm not going to say that so-and-so is less of a fan b/c they don't care about AIDS. If you don't care, you just don't care. But I care so I'll post my replies accordingly. Everyone has their own cause and I respect that. No matter what our own personal agendas are, this is first and foremost a U2 forum.

Katey. Keep up the good work!

 

[BluberryPoptart]

NO ONE is telling anyone not to post about Africa. Keep posting. If it reaches one person who didn't know, it could help.

But please don't use it to chastise people who meet Bono at political events or who comment on pics or music news instead of politics. If you want to talk politics fine, but don't use it to put down others or try to lay a guilt trip on them which is what has happened.

These 2 threads are an example:

http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?threadid=91421&pagenumber=2

http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91702&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

I don't believe Kobe or the others were a 'bunch of screaming fans' taking anything away from the issue.

 

[BluberryPoptart]

Personally, I like to think of it as "If I were in his place...."

Which makes it look like you feel he was wrong, and you are superior, therefore judging.

I'm not going to say that so-and-so is less of a fan b/c they don't care about AIDS. If you don't care, you just don't care. But I care so I'll post my replies accordingly.

Oh please. That's what the judging is all about, the usually incorrect assumption that people who happen to mention other things about Bono 'don't care about AIDS.' That is very unfair and usually wrong. A person can care, but would rather post about the pictures or the music. That's the biggest misconception here, that if someone gets an autograph or says they like a pic, that they 'don't care' and that if they cared they'd post something about Africa! Some of the people are actually involved and most of them do care. But get real. People like seeing Bono, and since most of our sightings involve a political event, the forum would be very dull if all we could post about was the political side. As someone said, he is a rock star, and the rock star and the activist cannot be separated.

But the overall tone of your post does say, "look at me, I care, but you don't!" and that is judging people whose minds you cannot read.

 

[Liesje]

Which makes it look like you feel he was wrong, and you are superior, therefore judging.

I'm really honestly confused what you meant by that...

Oh please. That's what the judging is all about, the usually incorrect assumption that people who happen to mention other things about Bono 'don't care about AIDS.' That is very unfair and usually wrong. A person can care, but would rather post about the pictures or the music. People like seeing Bono, and since most of our sightings involve a political event, the forum would be very dull if that's all we could post about. As someone said, he is a rock star, and the rock star and the activist cannot be separated.

No, actually, there ARE people that don't care and have said so. You're twisting my words around and I don't understand why. If you care, great! If you don't, great! Period.

But the overall tone of your post does say, "look at me, I care, but you don't!" and that is judging people whose minds you cannot read.

Like I said, you've twisted my words into something I didn't say and would never say.

 

[arw]

Like I said earlier in Pleba, it's not FYM it's Pleba. I'd honestly like to know why the people who are coming down on others for asking for an autograph over asking Bono a question about what he's speaking about are coming to Pleba to begin with. I don't get it. Everyone here knows that 90% of Pleba is pictures of the band. So why bother to come there if you're not looking at the pictures and having a good time with it?

I'm just really getting tired of this debate. Of course it's a put down for you to start this thread because then you get comments like ones from Beli (no hard feelings Beli) who have no clue that this thread stems from another "Theres a tonne of really nice warm open minded people and a minority of complete fucking dickheads." Which makes you look like victim and everyone else who had a different opinion in the threads in Pleba look like a complete ass.

 

[BluberryPoptart]

I am not twisting your words. I don't see how it can be taken any other way when someone says "if it were me" That is a direct putdown of the person who did something else besides post about Africa. I haven't twisted anything, that's how it comes across.

There are a few guys who have said "I don't care about his speech I hope he sings" or stuff like that, but they are usually joking because they are sick to death of hearing about it and are probably just joshing the sanctimonious girls and being funny. But the girls on PLEBA who post how hot the pics are, most of them are helping out and sending emails and making phone calls. But forgive them for commenting on how glad they are to see Bono, and how nice his suit looks, instead of another speech on what every PLEBA girl already knows anyway.

 

[Liesje]

Like I said earlier in Pleba, it's not FYM it's Pleba. I'd honestly like to know why the people who are coming down on others for asking for an autograph over asking Bono a question about what he's speaking about are coming to Pleba to begin with. I don't get it. Everyone here knows that 90% of Pleba is pictures of the band. So why bother to come there if you're not looking at the pictures and having a good time with it?

I'm just really getting tired of this debate. Of course it's a put down for you to start this thread because then you get comments like ones from Beli (no hard feelings Beli) who have no clue that this thread stems from another "Theres a tonne of really nice warm open minded people and a minority of complete fucking dickheads." Which makes you look like victim and everyone else who had a different opinion in the threads in Pleba look like a complete ass.

I wasn't aware this was a spin-off either...I s'pose I will return to PLEBA and read more carefully this time!.....

And I agree Amanda and Beli, that most of Katey's posts belong in FYM/EYKIW (not saying they're bad post! But they'd have a better audience elsewhere)

 

[arw]

I wasn't aware this was a spin-off either...I s'pose I will return to PLEBA and read more carefully this time!.....

I'm really just assuming it is but since someone else posted the links to other threads in Pleba I guess I'm not the only person who feels that way.

 

[Liesje]

I don't see how it can be taken any other way when someone says "if it were me" That is a direct putdown of the person who did something else besides post about Africa. I haven't twisted anything, that's how it comes across.

I'm still confused (b/c my comment had nothing to do with posting or Africa) but maybe my first post was confusing so I'll try again....

What I meant was "If I were Bono....." Like, when I'm considering doing something....uh, for example...say I see he and Ali and the kids walking down the street, I would think "Now, if I were Bono, going for a quiet walk with the fam, would I appreciate a swarm of fans asking for pics and autographs?" My answer would be no. So even though I'd WANT to run over and talk to him, I'd not do it. But if the person next to me thought it would be OK, then that's fine. I would just feel weird doing that. But if my friend didn't, then more power to her! (Maybe I'd give her my pic to get signed....)

 

[BluberryPoptart]

And I agree Amanda and Beli, that most of Katey's posts belong in FYM/EYKIW (not saying they're bad post! But they'd have a better audience elsewhere)

Once again, NOBODY is saying Katey or anyone else shouldn't post about Africa, only that it should not be used to criticize people or make them feel guilty for posting about music and pictures instead. Nobody goes into any Africa threads and says anything negative, or make jokes, or tell anyone to shut up. ALL this has come from self righteous individuals chastising people in threads that were started for mainly entertainment purposes. As Arw9797 says, if you have a problem with it being used that way, then don't come to PLEBA or EYKIW looking for news discussions. People are going to talk about pics and the new album there and shouldn't have to be made to feel guilty or that they 'don't care' because of it!!

 

[Liesje]

I'm really just assuming it is but since someone else posted the links to other threads in Pleba I guess I'm not the only person who feels that way.

Sorry! I missed that post with the links

 

[arw]

And I agree Amanda and Beli, that most of Katey's posts belong in FYM/EYKIW (not saying they're bad post! But they'd have a better audience elsewhere)

exactly. I go all over Interference every day. I look for different things in different forums. I dont go to Pleba to be preached at by people who support Bono's causes, which I feel is the case that has happened this week. I read FYM every single day. ( I'm too scared to post....) I read it and I learn a lot from the threads there. But after I leave FYM I'd like to leave the issues there.

 

[Liesje]

if you have a problem with it being used that way, then don't come to PLEBA or EYKIW looking for news discussions. People are going to talk about pics and the new album there and shouldn't have to be made to feel guilty or that they 'don't care' because of it!!

Now I think we're saying the same thing in different ways.

 

[BluberryPoptart]

I'm still confused (b/c my comment had nothing to do with posting or Africa) but maybe my first post was confusing so I'll try again....

What I meant was "If I were Bono....." Like, when I'm considering doing something....uh, for example...say I see he and Ali and the kids walking down the street, I would think "Now, if I were Bono, going for a quiet walk with the fam, would I appreciate a swarm of fans asking for pics and autographs?" My answer would be no. So even though I'd WANT to run over and talk to him, I'd not do it. But if the person next to me thought it would be OK, then that's fine. I would just feel weird doing that. But if my friend didn't, then more power to her! (Maybe I'd give her my pic to get signed....)

But by saying 'well if they want to do it fine but I wouldn't' that is putting them down and putting yourself up as better. It's like saying 'well if Susie wants to go work at the whorehouse, okay for her, but you'd never catch me doing such a thing.'

 

[Katey]

who knows I could be a bit younger then you.. But I do work at it everyday and sypervise people who go out and do the grassroots movements and work in Canada .. Ihave worked in the non profit sector for a while.. I do start my posts in Africa in FYM .. why I post is because it is another medium to reach another person .. on this issue you have to use every tool you have.. So at the end of the day if people say ohh thanks I didnt know or your a little arrogant @#$* it doesnt matter , I'll use whatever I have because thats what it takes .. I can hold my own with anyone and am use to the pissed off mother who isn't getting funding screamimg beacsue she needs to take that our on me or the government official that underestimates me and calls me doll...I'm persistant , i don't give up and that comes off the wrong way sometimes.. basically I can be a pain in the ass
My point in posting was just to kind of say look people feel like I was accusing them of not being a good person or ..because I do one thing and someone else does another .. doesnt make either one of us better or worse NOT AT ALL I havent come across a bad person here yet .. just people with different opinions someone could be Mother Theresa and I woulndt know it here it's a forum

I do no deliberatly post FYM type topics in PLEBA.. I have responded but thats becasue if someone says something I disagree with I dont have a problem with telling them .. but I try to do it in a resonable way.. No it's not about the PLEBA thing and honestly I do not judge anyone at all your right we all have our thing.. I did not in the PLEBA post about Celebrity being apart part in parcel actually. Bono like I said expects it and accepts it and no I dont have a problem with fans being there at all, like I also said in those posts I'd have a much bigger problem with a reporter blurting something out.. Ialso think given the nature of Bono's visit it's not odd for someone in the middle of a PLEBA thread to bring up the political nature for a second.. if it is area to talk about Bono and thats part of Bono's life it's gonna pop up everyonce in a while maybe form someone who doesnt know the ropes of PLEBA

But I care so I'll post my replies accordingly. Everyone has their own cause and I respect that. No matter what our own personal agendas are, this is first and foremost a U2 forum.

And Blueberry I agree with you whole heart .. I know and agree there should be no judgement and let me say this for the record I dont find a thing wrong with commenting on how Bono looks or any of them at all.. I am a fan to.. Your exactly right about people in PLEBA they have huge hearts and are great fans ..
but be carefulll too becasue I dont think these people posting are trying to shove it in peoples faces.. It's impossible to know it all with so much happening on this issue and thats why when something new happens then I post it , if a new stat comes out thats important I'll post it .... We are an international community and it is a window to get a message out.. if people read it fine if they don't fine to but to often these things don't make the media and yep I think people have a right to know and ya that belongs in FYM..

If I were a judge of what a fan is etcc.. I wouldnt be apart of the Interference team and the zine .. this is a great community a great zine news site etc and I know how hard the team works to bring this to everybody

. (which is what happened that started this, and this guy by the way is a moderator on this forum!)It doesn't make him a bad guy, or shallow, just because Bono was on his way to speak about AIDS. Even Bono himself hints at the tour during his speeches!

yes he does cause he always uses his celebrity wisely.. as for Kobe I never had a problem with it nor will I but thats not why I posted this.

I had hurt someones feelings along the way and that is never the intentions I have.. so this was ne trying to explain my attitude ..

Wow I babbled on.. but if you get to the end of this thanks guys I really do like to hear everyones opinion

 

[Liesje]

But by saying 'well if they want to do it fine but I wouldn't' that is putting them down and putting yourself up as better. It's like saying 'well if Susie wants to go work at the whorehouse, okay for her, but you'd never catch me doing such a thing.'

erm.....no, it's more like how I like to eat a pound of strawberries a week, but I'm guessing you don't. But you don't judge people based on what they do or do not do, right?

 

[Angela Harlem]

Can someone answer preferably in 25 words or less, what this is actually about?

 

[anitram]

I just think that no matter how passionately you feel about something, you will always attract more flies with honey than vinegar.

Believe me, I am passionate about the AIDS crisis. I have family in sub-Saharan Africa and I work in medical research (cancer, not AIDS) for a living. But the thing is, there is always a time and a place for things and you have to understand that not everyone can devote that much time to the same causes. It drives me absolutely insane when a lot of these passionate people start talking about drugs and treatment and research and they wouldn't be able to pass a 1st year biology class at university. Some of the statements are really out there, but I don't go out and pick them apart every time.

IMO, there is no need to bring politics into PLEBA. FYM is there, and just as I don't want to discuss Bono's hair (which, by the way I find hideous) in FYM, I don't think that global AIDS funding is an appropriate topic in PLEBA, as per the forum description.

 

[Katey]

those posts the first from the news sections is basically saying it suck that it takes celebrity to highlight these causes .. which is true and I stand by that.. it shouldnt have to be celebrity that is my point on this Bono topic and he often says the same thing.. I am not paining all fans with the same brush but we all know we come about it for different reasons.. I can't say whats right for another person only whats right for me..and people need to take comments with a grain of salt when I say things it's not directed to anyone..

I've never people started a post in PLEBA politically based.. yes i have commented on posts and comments already started either to defend myself or state my point.. If a POST is in the wrong spot the MODs need to be clear they should move it and they do..

 

[Katey]

Can someone answer preferably in 25 words or less, what this is actually about

well I though I new but it's turned into something different.. and I started the bloody thing.

You are all correct on the not posting in PLEBA on poltical topics thing true true true .. I agree I'm bad..

It drives me absolutely insane when a lot of these passionate people start talking about drugs and treatment and research and they wouldn't be able to pass a 1st year biology class at university. Some of the statements are really out there, but I don't go out and pick them apart every time.

your right on that.. I try to keep eduacted enough to not say anything I cant back up..

 

[Angela Harlem]

I think I am slowly getting this now. As we all seem to be lol. I guess the old rule of "It's not what you say, but how you say it" applies here. Sadly I think there are more issues than anyone has the time in a day to talk about as needed, and AIDS and Africa is one of them. To keep serious and educational or even debate style talk in one forum isn't silencing the topic or not giving it the credibility it deserves. Conversational commentating is not the same thing, and so like anything else, it is all well and good in moderation. If it is getting beyond moderation, we all need to look at just how we are coming across to others. I am not talking about anyone here, so please don't feel this is an underhanded slight at anyone.

I am personally beginning to despise the rumblings around this place, that certain topics need to be silenced and the opinions of anyone are not welcome. The day that is the case, is the day I leave this place for good. I'm sure we all feel like that, so lets keep it on track and where it all belongs, without the need to tell anyone to quit it or whatever.

 

[beli]

Katey you havent been bad. Dont ever think that.

Apologies if my posts were out of context. Feel free to ignore - actually that goes for everything I ever post.

Also, I am one of the old farts here and I automatically presume everyone else is younger than me. I just meant you reminded me of me back before the mortgage, babies etc, back when I had a life. Apologies if you are an old fart too

Keep up the grass roots work and dont let anyone ever tell you to shut up

 

[Elvis]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and give my opinion.... :shock:

A few things I've learned since I've started this place:

1) If you PUSH things/ideas on people, it will only push them away and annoy them.

2) While you don't HAVE to conform to the majority, it is wise to observe the majority.... and follow the lead. i.e. post serious things in serious forums, and bono drooling in pleba

3) Everyone has different views, ethics, morals, and priorities in life. While I agree that the crisis in Africa is worthy of all human attention... I also accept that others may or do not feel the same - this is true with MOST personal concerns/interests on one level or another. Trying to convince someone they should think as you do, well... simply is pointless. The best way to get someone to follow your lead is to be educated on a topic, and educate those that lack the information... but in a subtle way.

Joel

 

[Katey]

The day that is the case, is the day I leave this place for good. I'm sure we all feel like that, so lets keep it on track and where it all belongs, without the need to tell anyone to quit it or whatever.

ya
and Joel I agree with what you said and beli no worries I was only ha kidding I know I havent been bad and of course I value your opinion and ahh your not an old fart I'm sure.. I am young just not as young as I wanna be HAAAAAAAAAA! ..cheers to everyone !!!!!!!!

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

It drives me absolutely insane when a lot of these passionate people start talking about drugs and treatment and research and they wouldn't be able to pass a 1st year biology class at university.

Absolutely.

Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Can someone answer preferably in 25 words or less, what this is actually about?

That'd be nice. I read the first post in this thread and was about to reply to it, then after reading the other 20 or so posts, realised I don't have a clue what this whole dispute is about. So I'm keeping quiet.