Helping a friend...

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Aardvark747

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My best mate has a problem.
He is 22 years old and has been with his gf for 4 yrs now, they live together and have 1 child. Sounds all well and good so far I know, however, for about the past 2 years he really hasnt enjoyed the relationship at all. He told her a while back that he wanted to leave her, as she wasnt being very nice to him a lot of the time and she would never want to go out and get a job. She was just happy to sit at home and rely on him.
Once she realised that he was being serious, she decided to take action, and she stopped taking her pill so as to try and get herself pregnant, in order to 'keep' him. It worked, and after 2 months of knowing about being pregnant, she decided to let him know(!)
I remember talking to him at the time, and he was angry about not being told at the start of course, but that he was looking forward to becoming a father, despite the fact that it wasnt planned and she had obviously tried to do this on purpose. He hoped that it may bring the two of them closer together. And for a while, after the birth, I think it did. They always looked happy enough.
After a couple of months tho, we were out somewhere, and he once again unhappy, and telling me that she was treating him like shit, hardly letting him see his friends (even to come over and visit) she was still not bothered about trying to look for some work. Obviously he didnt expect her to have a baby and then go back to work the next day, but now that it is nearly a year since the birth, and money is tight - she still wont see reason.
Anyway, we met the other day and he told me he had some news. I said "She's pregnant again isnt she?". He just nodded. And once again, she has stopped taking he pill, got pregnant, and waited 2 months before telling him.
He is really annoyed now. Money is so tight, that they cannot possibly afford to have another child, but he would never think of an abortion as an option, and I think she knew that.

He is now unsure exactly what to do. Should he up and leave her, but of course still support his child and the one that is on the way. Or should he just continue in the relationship he is in, playing happy families, but when the truth is, he is really unhappy with this girl for the way she has been with him over the last couple of years.
 
I hate to say it like this...but he should have been smart enough to use a condom if he knows how she is with her pills.

Secondly, yes he should leave her. Staying together for the kids doesnt help anybody. Kids are smart, they can pick up on the body language of an unhappy parent. He should leave her and still support the kids and see them as much as possible.
 
LoveTown said:
I hate to say it like this...but he should have been smart enough to use a condom if he knows how she is with her pills.

Secondly, yes he should leave her. Staying together for the kids doesnt help anybody. Kids are smart, they can pick up on the body language of an unhappy parent. He should leave her and still support the kids and see them as much as possible.

:up: Exactly what I told him last nite LoveTown. And yes, I even said about the condom thing, but sadly he just says "Sex isnt good with a condom" and forgets about the possible outcome - (no pun intended!):wink:

He's not the kind of guy that would ever abandon his child, and he loves his daughter very much, and i'm sure will love this next child the same. The only problem with him is, after being in this relationship for so long, he said he's gonna find it hard to suddenly have no woman there. I told him that it is the same for thousands of ppl when a relationship ends - and u just have to deal with it. It's not like he's never gonna be able to meet anyone else, I just think he won't leave her until he knows for sure that he has someone else to go to.

I know this is quite stupid - I have told him so, and am just hoping he will heed my advice.
 
Aardvark747 said:


:up: Exactly what I told him last nite LoveTown. And yes, I even said about the condom thing, but sadly he just says "Sex isnt good with a condom" and forgets about the possible outcome - (no pun intended!):wink:

He's not the kind of guy that would ever abandon his child, and he loves his daughter very much, and i'm sure will love this next child the same. The only problem with him is, after being in this relationship for so long, he said he's gonna find it hard to suddenly have no woman there. I told him that it is the same for thousands of ppl when a relationship ends - and u just have to deal with it. It's not like he's never gonna be able to meet anyone else, I just think he won't leave her until he knows for sure that he has someone else to go to.

I know this is quite stupid - I have told him so, and am just hoping he will heed my advice.

So he wouldn't wear a condom - after his girlfriend tricked him before - and now he finds himself in this mess. That's smart. I don't understand how he could even risk that knowing what she is like and how he could forget about the possible outcome of unprotected sex given the situation he is in.

He should leave now. He isn't happy. I doubt he's going to fix this relationship. He needs to be thinking about his children and how to support them - not fretting about finding someone else.
 
Lara Mullen said:
He should leave now. He isn't happy. I doubt he's going to fix this relationship. He needs to be thinking about his children and how to support them - not fretting about finding someone else.

:up: I may very well show him this thread if I see him today, just so he knows it's not just me who thinks along these lines.
 
Look, first of all, the baby was conceived in the worst way possible... When people have children hoping to change relationships, that' s total BS. I don't get why people do that. TO raise a child, you should introduce it into a very stable environ.

Now they are 2-3 steps behind already (because they have to repair their relationship AND deal with the children)... not even talking about the 2nd child.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-



Look, I'm going to say that these two should stay together. Or at least, not quit, not just yet. If they can overcome these hardships, then they can grow much closer together.

People give up way to early on relationships these days.


They aren't married, though?
Does she want marriage or something?
And he doesn't? he wants his freedom? (I'm asking because I don't know the situation)


He needs to be thinking about his children and how to support them - not fretting about finding someone else.

BOTH parties need to do that. If BOTH people don't understand that THEIR lives are no longer the most important things, then BOTH parties don't deserve their children. Children shouldn't be used as tools, leverage. And most of all, if children aren't your main focus in life, you should not have children at any cost, period.

THat sort of thing disgusts me...


YOU DON'T BRING CHILDREN INTO THE WORLD LIKE THAT, and that's the bottom line.

It all depends - are those two people weak or strong? If they just can't deal with stuff, sure, break up, say goodbye, pay those child support checks, and live with a broken family. Whatever.

If they want to make it work, then by all means they should, and start right now, going to relationship things and programs, and reading , dare I say it, Relationship books like Dr Phil's relationship rescue. Buit that is if they want to be brave.

The SHOULD do it for the sake of their children.
But hey, I understand not everyone is that way.


But once you are a parent, either by intention or accident, your life changes (whether you accept it or not). I hope both of them come to understand that someday, whatever road they go down.

Lastly, I understand that not everyone is meant for each other
But also........ Any two people can learn to live together, if they both earnestly try. So "not getting along" is a pathetic excuse.


Life isn't a walk in the park
And it's not always going to "feel good"


Finally, it seems like both these people need to go over their values, for something is off, apparently.
 
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yeah, they both seem incredibly selfish, unless you can inform me of otherwise.


Granted, if one person is unhappy in a relationship, the other should be aware of it and respond. However, both should be doing that for each other.

And now that kids are involved..... I don't know....


There is ..... structural imperfection in the family. There is a lot of work to be done on all parties, it looks.

But the kids didn't ask for this.

I am not advocating that the parents overlook all things to lie about being happy, in order for the kids to be happy. I'm saying the parents grow up and deal like things as adults, and learn how to deal. Or , if absolutley neccesary.... separate. But I don't know.......


how much have both of them worked on this relationship?
 
For Honor said:
They aren't married, though?
Does she want marriage or something?
And he doesn't? he wants his freedom? (I'm asking because I don't know the situation)

No, they're not married, and as far as I know she hasnt been pushing for that. She just wants to do all she can to keep him, and in her mind, getting pregnant is the thing to do. After all, it did work before - he stayed with her then.
The love he had for her has certainly diminished, I am sure of that. He just sees her as the mother of his child now, and someone who he WAS in love with before, but now just the woman he puts up living with, for the sake of his daughter.
 
For Honor said:
how much have both of them worked on this relationship?

Before she was pregnant the first time, he was thinking of finishing the relationship, as he really wasnt happy. He WAS however, still sleeping with her - and she became pregnant. She didnt tell him for 2 months which annoyed him greatly, but he realised that probably the best thing to do, would be to stay with her and to try and make the relationship work, for the sake of their child.

In the year since the birth, things have just got back to how they use to be, and he told me that he thought he should end their relationship, but of course, still be there for their daughter - who he does love very much.

But before he could do that, she informs him she is pregnant again. "The pill couldnt have worked" - same situation as before. I KNOW he should've been using some form of protection, and so does he. I think he does regret that a lot right now.
 
How does she earnestly feel about him?




so why doesn't he like her anymore? What's the real story about that?



The situation isn't good, with people forcing each other into things, using leverages.....

But what is this guy's real reason for wanting out? Just that "he doesn't love her" ?
 
I think when someone goes behind your back and gets pregnant, then does it again, there is something seriously wrong that is going to be very hard to fix.

It all depends - are those two people weak or strong? If they just can't deal with stuff, sure, break up, say goodbye, pay those child support checks, and live with a broken family. Whatever.

Those children will probably benefit from living in their "broken family" than in a hostile environment. I've never seen a relationship work when people stay together "for the sake of their children"

I doubt life is going to be a walk in the park for 2 young parents struggling to make ends meet whether or not they are together. I couldn't see where their relationship would go if they stayed together. If it were to continue along the same path your friend may end up 25 with a handful of children and struggling with mounting debts. I don't see how that is healthy for anyone.

I knew someone in a similar situation. When he discovered his girlfriend was pregnant, he decided to take on a mortgage for the sake of having a home for their daughter. They fought with each other constantly from what I gather and I think both parties were involved with other people at some stage during their elationship. He told everyone who advised him against it that he would prove them all wrong and it would work out. I met his brother a few weeks ago, they put their house up for sale, and each moved back to their parents house. I never think it's a good idea to get involved in someone elses relationship, you can never really know the true extent of their problems. All you can do is offer your friend advice and support and hope he makes the best decision for everyone, Aardvark.
 
Hmm.. I don't think they should try and stay together just for the children. If they can't get along now, don't trust each other and aren't in love, the way I see it they're gonna break up sooner or later so why drag it out any longer. Only thing I would be worried about is where would she live and bring up the children? I have a friend who's 18 and bringing up a 1 year old child in a hostel and to me that environment is worse to bring up a child in than a shitty relationship. But having to support herself and live on benefits has given her the motivation to go back to college which is a step in the right direction to getting a decent career and life for herself.
 
Aardvark747 said:


Before she was pregnant the first time, he was thinking of finishing the relationship, as he really wasnt happy. He WAS however, still sleeping with her - and she became pregnant.


Then this guy get's no pity from me.


As my grandmother says, don't have sex with anyone you don't want to father children with.


It was underhanded on her part, but also bad on his own part to do things like that. Both share the blame. I guess both have to work on things, or just separate and be like most separated couples in America these days.


It all depends on how much he wants to work.


What is the major trouble in their relationship at this moment?

edit - and how hostile is it, really?
 
Originally posted by For Honor
how much have both of them worked on this relationship?



Aardvark747 said:


Before she was pregnant the first time, he was thinking of finishing the relationship, as he really wasnt happy. He WAS however, still sleeping with her - and she became pregnant. She didnt tell him for 2 months which annoyed him greatly, but he realised that probably the best thing to do, would be to stay with her and to try and make the relationship work, for the sake of their child.

In the year since the birth, things have just got back to how they use to be, and he told me that he thought he should end their relationship, but of course, still be there for their daughter - who he does love very much.

But before he could do that, she informs him she is pregnant again. "The pill couldnt have worked" - same situation as before. I KNOW he should've been using some form of protection, and so does he. I think he does regret that a lot right now.


That still doesn't answer my question.

How much have both of them worked on their relationship?
WHat have they done, talked?

That's not enough.

(and, IF they want to stay together, then it will take a long time. It's taken time to get like thiis, and it will take time to get out of it)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=

And what is her standpoint on the relationship - what does she really want?
 
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For Honor said:
What is the major trouble in their relationship at this moment?

edit - and how hostile is it, really?

Well - he wouldnt like me telling anyone this, but I guess he's only ever gonna read this if I was to show it to him.

The fact is, despite being quite a tough guy, she dominates him when they are alone. She has all the power over him. She has something inside her that snaps I think. Cos when I am with them, or anyone else, she seems perfectly nice, but from what he says happens when they are alone - she is far from nice. Deranged is more the word.

He told me, he has come in from work a few mins late some nights. He finishes at 11pm. He gets into bed, hoping not to wake her, but she starts to shout at him - demanding to know why he is 'SO' late. He always says he tries NOT to argue, cos he doesnt want that. He has come home from work, he wants to sleep, he doesnt want to wake their baby, so he just ignores her.
This, he says, makes her much worse, and she proceeds to punch him (on the back of his head, on his back - anywhere I think) and kick him, until she gets some kind of reaction from him. Not a physical reaction, but shouting back at her, telling her to stop. Most nights he says he ends up walking out and sleeping on the sofa, rather than continue to put up with her being like that.

Another time he told me about was in their car, he took a little longer in the shop buying stuff than she liked (she was waiting in the car) so when he got back in and started driving - she apparently grabbed the wheel and tried to get them off the road, whilst shouting at him. All the time the child was in the back of the car btw.

When he told me all these things, I couldnt believe it at first, cos she really doesnt seem like that when I meet her. But I know he wouldnt ever lie to me.

So hopefully u will get an idea now of exactly WHY he wants out of this relationship - but it too scared that it will cause problems with his daughter, and now this new baby's lives.
 
Ahhh...........

I see. I know a little bit about those kind of relationships.....





So she has a lot of issues then.......
In that case, I would advise him to tell her to see a counselor. Someone who shows that much disregard for her own children - argueing at night, and being a fool in the car - needs some help.


Apparently, she is being very conceited then....

Do you think your friend "deserves someone better" ?
It sounds like he does, at least somewhat.


But she has insecurity/control issues, bigtime, apparently. Or something...... I don't know - you'd know better than I.



IF she is really a bad apple, and is the more.... destructive person, then I say that separating may very well be a valid thing to do. Just make sure he's got a good lawyer..... it doesn't sound like she is being a good mother.


But..... kids often get used as pawns and leverage in situations like these. It's disgusting........
I hope that she can grow up and get better, for her children's sake. But for your friend, well...

I don't know.


Unfortunately, it seems as though the whole situation got off on the wrong foot..... especially if abortion is not an option, and the first child was not really ..... wanted on both accounts.

That sort of thing is fundementally wrong, in my book.




I'd say.... let her know it's up to her
If she is going to be unreasonable and mean and not seek counseling, anger management, etc. If she is going to keep going down the same road, then he should leave.

If she makes progress, and changes herself to better her family, like she should (because as I said, when you are a parent, life is no longer about your wants and needs, it's about your kids), then the two can stay together.




I don't know how much those two have worked at making their relationship together. But I say give that an honest, earnest effort. And if the two cannot make it work, then split.

It sounds like a lot of work would need to be done on her end. And maybe on his end, too. And I don't think most people are up for a challenge.......
 
He needs to leave her! Has she ever been violent towards the children? I would worry about that if he does leave she could use them as a way of getting back at him.

If he stays it sounds like no one wins. It doesn't sound like a healthy way to bring up children.

He REALLY needs to stop sleeping with her!
 
i'd like to know something, but i don't know if you can find out. how old is she, and old were her parents when they had her? was her childhood really bad? because getting yourself pregnant in order to keep a guy around is a pretty shitty thing to do.
 
Aardvark747 said:

And yes, I even said about the condom thing, but sadly he just says "Sex isnt good with a condom" and forgets about the possible outcome

He'd rather pay $300+/month for child support than get a condom? I wouldn't call that good sex, I'd call it expensive sex!

Sounds like they're both really immature and clueless and at this point, deserve each other.

Poor kids though. :tsk:
 
If he doesn't want any more kids he needs to stop producing them. It takes two to tango and he is doing his part in that dance.

If he doesn't want more kids and doesn't want to wear a condom (which isn't foolproof either) he needs to either stop having sex or he needs to get a vasectomy. If he's going to leave birth control up to someone who wants to get pregnant...well, he's going to have lots of children. :shrug:

And if he does not like and does not love the mother of his children he shouldn't be with her. As tough as the split of their parents is on children, living in a loveless home is worse.
 
discothequeLP said:
i'd like to know something, but i don't know if you can find out. how old is she, and old were her parents when they had her? was her childhood really bad? because getting yourself pregnant in order to keep a guy around is a pretty shitty thing to do.

Her upbringing I believe wasnt the best. Her parents had her in their early 20's I think, and are still together - but it is a very strange environment in their house, tho I have only been there once, my mate does inform me of the strange comings and goings.
 
She's got a lot of problems and it sounds like she needs counseling alone as well as the two of them together (even if they don't stay together). She treats him like shit, and is controlling and untrusting of him. This may have something to do with her past or a past relationship. She sounds immature, using sex/child to keep a man; then again he's got some responsibility in the situation (unprotected sex). And they are so young too. I'm just concerned about the welfare of these children. If he leaves her, would she harm them in order to get back at him... And I don't know where either person's parents or family fit into the equation. It's sounds like a mess - I hope for the best for them :hug:
 
I can update this thread, as further developments have taken place in the last few wks.

Basically 2 wks ago, a mutual friend of mine and the guy I made this thread about came into my shop to see me. I asked him if he'd had any contact with our mate, cos I hadnt spoken to him in a month or so. He hadnt been answering my calls. Anyway, my mate informed me that when HE last saw him, he had moved out of the flat he shared with his gf - and that they had, at last, decided to split. I said this was good news, as they really couldnt carry on the way they were going - one would've ended up killing the other!
He had moved back in with his parents for the time being. I was a little suprised really that he finally found the courage to move out, as he had kept telling me that he wanted to find another girl before ending this other relationship. And low and behold, this was the next piece of news this other mate told me.

Our mutual friend told me that, whilst driving his bus around the local area, our mate decided to give his number to some random girl who he liked the look of. She rang, they met up, and to cut a long story short, he now intends on moving away with this girl, back up country where he was born - some time within the next few wks.
I couldnt believe it. This girl incidently, is 16 years old. My mate is 23. First thing I did was try to call him again - but with no answer. At the end of last week, got a call from the girl he has just split from, whom he has been with for the last 4 years, has a 1 yr old daughter and another child on the way in around 6 months time.

I soon realised that she knew nothing about this other girl that he intends on moving away with, and I didnt feel it was my place to say either, so I didnt. She was very upset tho at the prospect of being alone with their daughter and future baby.
Although she had not always been that nice to my mate, she really doesnt deserve to have to deal with this.

When I got off the phone to her, I was quite annoyed, so rang him again - this time he finally answered!

I told him what our other mate had told me, and asked if it was all true, and he said yes. I said how on earth can u consider just up an moving away with 1 16 year old who has just left school?! What's going through ur mind?! He said if I was to meet her, I would see that she seems older than her age.
I just replied with the fact that she's NOT...she IS 16, and meeting her isnt gonna change my opinion. He said he is sick of living around here, and once he gets a transfer in his job, they will both move. I asked what HER parents thought about this, to which he replied "They don't care":|

He made up some bollocks reason as to why he couldnt come and meet me for a drink so we could talk. I reminded him of thefact that i'm his oldest mate and as such he should wanna be talking to sum1 like me before making serious decisions like this.
I then said, quite simply "What about ur daughter then?....And the child that u have on the way? U just think u can move somewhere else and that will solve all ur problems? I know u didnt WANT to be in this situation - 2 kids at 23 with a girl u dont love, but the fact is - ur in it, and u can't just run away"

With that, the phone went dead. I guess he probably knew what i'd say to him, hence why he didnt answer my calls for so long. H knew he wouldnt like what I had to say.

Not sure why i'm posting all this really. I guess i'm just annoyed and dissapointed with him, and felt like expressing that by updating this thread! Still....any comments would be welcome, perhaps on what I could say to him if we do get in contact again, or indeed anything I should say to the girl he is abandoning, leaving her with a child and a baby on the way?
 
:scream: I'd say this is a terrible outcome so far. I'm guessing this 16 year old girl will also turn up pregnant in the near future as he doesn't like the feel of a condom right?

What a mess. I feel no pity for him but he's leaving a trail of broken people behind him. In the U.S he would be commiting statutory rape with a 16 year old girl. He'd be arrested. Plus the authorities would come after him for child support. I hope he intends on keeping up financially at least with his children.

I don't know what to say about the ex. Hopefully she will have the support she needs but don't get close to her. She seems a bit toxic herself and I could see her clinging to the first male to offer a shoulder.

The whole story sucks. I think you are being a good friend by being honest with him even though you aren't telling him what he wants to hear.
 
redkat said:
:scream: I'd say this is a terrible outcome so far. I'm guessing this 16 year old girl will also turn up pregnant in the near future as he doesn't like the feel of a condom right?

What a mess. I feel no pity for him but he's leaving a trail of broken people behind him. In the U.S he would be commiting statutory rape with a 16 year old girl. He'd be arrested. Plus the authorities would come after him for child support. I hope he intends on keeping up financially at least with his children.

I don't know what to say about the ex. Hopefully she will have the support she needs but don't get close to her. She seems a bit toxic herself and I could see her clinging to the first male to offer a shoulder.

The whole story sucks. I think you are being a good friend by being honest with him even though you aren't telling him what he wants to hear.

Thanks. There is no point in me just saying "Yeah that's cool, hope u have a good life wherever u move to..."blah blah blah, cos it's better he knows at least from ONE person that what he's planning isnt the greatest idea!

I'm def. keeping myself at a distance from his ex, cos I think u are right in what u say. She has asked me if I wanted to go round there for 'a cup of tea' some night....:ohmy: Which I politely declined of course.
 
It's so sad to see things like this. so how many lives now........

your mate, is ex, his new 16 year old, all the parents involved, all the families, friends, you Aardvark747.......

The list goes on and on..........



As much as he needs a good friend to kick him a kick in the ass.....
You need to watch your own "6" as well. Some people, when they see others like this, are tempted into being a hero; taking care of the ex, trying to better your mate..........


But at some point the line must be drawn and everybody has to mind their own business. As noble as it is to try to stop people form falling overboard, it won't do anyone good if there are more casualties.


It is a tough decision to make; how much can one give...
You're doing your duty as a good and loyal friend.

Just be careful


=======
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=================


PS: I realize now more than EVER (because of what I see in my own life around me), that people SHOULD NOT be allowed to make decisions as an adult until they are at least 20, maybe older. That 16 year old girl should not even have the choice to go away with this kid. I don't care what anyone says - when it comes to realtionships, kids that young don't know anything. I still don't. I'm 18. But 16??? She's too young, she doesn't know anything.

Unfortunately, her parents are letting her down, and her parents are allowing this to happen.





..........

Things like this I really don't like. It is a great example of the breakdown of human society. Don't get me wrong- I'm all for love and that mushy stuff...... but......

When so many people are acting out of fear, or pain, or hurt, then it's never a good thing. I mean, look -- - -- you're mate hung up on you.


When you are denying the truth, when you don't want to hear reality.........................




something is very wrong
 
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