conforming someone to my image

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sarah_U27

The Fly
Joined
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Twin Cities
My 14 year old girl has very long hair and is attractive but thinks she's ugly. She is shapely without being too thin, and while i think this is great, in some respects, she also slouches and has a few boyish mannerisms (she has had some close guy friends over the years) and refuses all attempts at make-up but (recently) told me she might try eye-shadow and before you start telling me how good this is is, or bad this is ... i am rather undecided as to how to proceed with allowing her to change in to HER VIEW of womanhood. Cuz at this point i think she views herself as "punk" and nothing more . . . certainly not a lady. Since she has low self-esteem and an estranged relationship with her father (on her part, i am more inclined to say) altho she's still working on it, at times her attitude is shit. she likes two boys and i smell trouble. one of her girl friends is an idiot (this is only my opinion & what i've observed...) i am just pointing out the differing viewpoints towards make-up and fashion. some say it's shallow and leads to vanity while others can manage it effectively and are more concerned about the spirit of the thing. the inner person, whether they glow with love etc. i feel my daughter has a low self-esteem when it comes to how she views herself and think that a little eyeshadow and a new haircut can work wonders, since she keeps on dressing in black and wants blue streaks in her hair. i'm not so sure about the whole punk scene. i am not so sure about the wonders these changes can bring about:huh: now, it seems, her friends are of supreme importance and i am being shoved to the back stage. *anyway* my idea (and my husband gives me full rein in all of this) is to expose her to mediocre stylists and put some eye shadow on her. she wanted blue streaks in her hair but we (husband & I ) are only allowing simple low lights ---Not high lights...she wants low lights:eyebrow: which is fine with me---Meanwhile, I will keep on being kind to her (as kind as humanly possible even tho she thinks i am a pain in the ass) and i will KEEP ON trying NOT 2B irritated and I will stop telling her to stand up straight!!!!! instead i will emphasize the importance of the heart of womanhood. No modeling classes are in store for her. I wish she'd stop slouching. why oh why does she like punk? I really would like to sit down and do her whole face. but if she's on the outskirts of the drug/party scene you know i feel leery of the whole thing. yes, ALL is vanity even youth. you think I should force her to submit to my make-up session on her face, because believe me, she'd fight me. then she'd give in. any advice or comments prayers etc. would be most appreciated. i DID buy a book on etiquette and thought of forcing her to read it but then i became QUITE interested in it and read the whole thing, so now I am just informing her as events arise. It's fun. okay well i know i wrote alot and it's jumbled but that's it.
 
Wow, memories. You remind me of my Mum.

I didnt want to wear makeup at all. Still dont. And I was quite resentful of my mother suggesting that I wear makeup. She also wanted me to cut long blonde hair and would remind me almost daily how horrible my hair style was (to her)

And the slouching was "round shoulders" with my Mum. I still, to this day, have issues with my shoulders because of all the negative crap my Mum gave me about them. I very rarely wear sleeveless shirts because of this.

I would say, leave your daughter be. Shes only 14, and shes not endangering herself with her appearance.

Cause otherwise you could do some psychological damage to your daughter and long term damage to your relationship. My mother still gives me unwanted negative fashion advice.

Ok, this has turned into a whinge about my mother.

Your daughters physical appearance is her right. And shes not making any permanent changes like cutting of a limb, so leave her be.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I think you are playing with fire.

peace

:hug:
 
sarah_U27 said:
My 14 year old girl has very long hair and is attractive but thinks she's ugly. She is shapely without being too thin, and while i think this is great, in some respects, she also slouches and has a few boyish mannerisms (she has had some close guy friends over the years) and refuses all attempts at make-up

sounds exactly like me then and now! i'm still very much a tomboy, and when i was little my closest friends were guys. lately i've been trying a little bit of blush, just to add some color instead of plain ol' pasty white and loads of freckles. my mom has also been trying to get me to wear more makeup, which i personally feel i don't need. when it gets to the point that i feel i need make up, then it will be my choice to wear it. that might be how she feels too.
 
Let's see, I've gone through the punk phase, hippy phase, too much makeup phase, no makeup phase and finally the I think I might be a lesbian phase with my daughter (actually this was not a phase, but a time of great confusion for her). I left her alone and she turned out just fine.
 
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Oh dont worry :hug:

i used to have problems with my mom when i was 14... i was in that Hip Hop stuff.. and i dressed like a guy (some people used to think that i was a boy lol ). My mom always wanted me to dress and behave like a "girl" and to start to use make up (in fact when i started to use it she was upset cuz i only wear a lot of black eyeliner cuz i was in the goth scene ). I started to feel ugly and fat cuz my mom used to say me that cuz the way i dressed.

So, i started to eat a lot, to gain weight and feel so angry against me... (well.. that's another story... that i guess is ending in a good way , i hope)

the fact is... she is defining herself... as long as she loves and respects herself and the others there's nothing wrong if she chooses to be a punk girl or whatever at this moment :)... let her feel that she is unique (cuz she is unique) and she will develop her own style with the time.

*from a girl who still uses purple - pink hair and stripped socks and feels really happy about that :D "
 
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It's not easy being the parent of a teenager or being a teenager. I wouldn't want to repeat those years again. I managed to survive 4 teenagers. Now I know I can survive anything!
 
I say that you should show her unconditional love no matter what look she decides to go with. In the end that is all that really matters and she will be a good person on the inside if she knows she's loved. That's WAY more important than blush and lipstick in my book.


also, as an after-thought...if you support her just the way she is it will build self-esteem and the courage to try new things. It will help her grow as a person. Being critical or trying to push her in any one direction will only add to her feelings of not being up to par. Just my 2 cents :)
 
My Mum and Dad never passed judgement on our choice of clothes/ friends etc. If I wanted to dye my hair red or go blonde my Mum would have allowed me. She only draws the line at tattoos and certain peircings but I know if I came home with a tattoo tomorrow she would only say she thought I was a bit of a prat but I'm an adult now and can make my own decisions. My siblings and I have always got along really well with our parents. They haven't been too strict with us but we always know when to draw the line. My parents also told me if I ever wanted to taste alcohol I could at home but not to go and do it behind their backs. I think if my parents had have tried to stop me doing certain things I would have just rebelled against them. I have seen lots of friends with strict parents turn 18 and start drinking and taking drugs because they weren't allowed to do anything when they were still living at home.

As beli said, she is only 14, it is her choice to dress how she pleases.

:up:
 
Lara Mullen said:
My Mum and Dad never passed judgement on our choice of clothes/ friends etc. If I wanted to dye my hair red or go blonde my Mum would have allowed me. She only draws the line at tattoos and certain peircings but I know if I came home with a tattoo tomorrow she would only say she thought I was a bit of a prat but I'm an adult now and can make my own decisions. My siblings and I have always got along really well with our parents. They haven't been too strict with us but we always know when to draw the line. My parents also told me if I ever wanted to taste alcohol I could at home but not to go and do it behind their backs. I think if my parents had have tried to stop me doing certain things I would have just rebelled against them. I have seen lots of friends with strict parents turn 18 and start drinking and taking drugs because they weren't allowed to do anything when they were still living at home.


My parents were the same way. I'm the oldest so in a sense, the "experimental" child. I didn't have any rules or anything, but on the other hand, if I wanted trendy clothes or makeup, I bought that all myself. I was raised to be (and I still am) almost too independent. But I guess it worked b/c I turned out to be an average looking girl with good friends and good grades and I never felt the need to "rebel". I never got into the party scene and after seeing what's happened with my grandpa and dad, will never so much as take one puff from a cigarette. I started experiementing with actual makeup (not just cheap eyeshadow and body glitter :shudder: ) in 7th grade (11) b/c my friend had a birthday sleepover and her friend's mom worked for Mary Kay and gave us makeovers. I saved all of her little samples and learned eyeliner, etc. My mom didn't really care either way since I didn't overdo it and I was responsible for buying all my own makeup anyway. I did wear makeup to school, just a tab bit of eyeliner the color of my eyes and some eyeshadow. But I also got my first period at 11 so I guess I was starting to feel more like a woman and more responsible for myself.

I guess my advice would be to show her what you like, but don't force her. My mom used to show me a lot of things she'd like me to wear and I'd refuse, but looking back I see she was right. You can always say that if you're paying for it, she has to at least try what you like on. If my mom ever bought me clothes, we had to compromise (unless I was picking a birthday present) or I'd have to buy it myself. I didn't really know how to dress when I was 14 and I looked pretty awful, but by the time I was in the next grade, I had completely changed - my hair was longer and do-able instead of shaggy and short, I'd got clothes that were a bit trendier, but actually fit, I ditched my huge "kid" glasses and got contacts, etc. I have't changed at all since I was 15 (I stopped growing at 14). You'll be amazed what can change in 1 year! 14 was also my first year of high school so I was more worried about fitting in then looking presentable and by the time I turned 15, I had a solid group of friends and looked like a normal person. Just give her some helpful tips and encouragement, but don't make her feel like if she chooses against you, she;ll be ugly or unwanted. If she picks something you think is too "punk" or gothy, say things like "I think this shirt would look cute on you" not "that shirt is ugly".
 
I say leave her alone and let her figure out her own style.

My mom completely controlled my every move when it came to clothes, make up, and my hair cut when I was growing up. I think she felt that her kids needed to look a certain way or it was a bad reflection on the type of mother she was. We definitely had the latest brand names but it wasn't always neccessary. I would have been happy picking out stuff I liked vs. the expensive brand names I ended up with. I did have some stuff, like concert t shirts, but I couldn't wear that when I was around my mom. If I did wear those shirts around her then she would tell me I looked like a boy or she would just tell me to stay home until I changed if we were going out because I wasn't going out with her in a concert t shirt.

I'm 30 years old and to this day if I still wear something that she doesn't like she'll tell me that it looks bad on me even if I dont' think it does. She's always felt it's her right to say whatever she wants about the way we dress and she has no problem throwing a fit if I don't look how she wants me to look. Maybe it's my rebellious middle child ways because the other 2 never really had an issue with our mom telling them what to wear but at this point in my life, enough is enough. I really wish she would just keep quiet and I wish she would have kept quiet when I was growing up. I felt very sheltered at times, but only when it came to clothes. I really could do what I wanted when I wanted to as long as I was home by 1:00 AM on the weekends. I didn't have to lie about going to a party like a lot of my friends did and my parents never questioned where I was and what I was doing. My room was covered with heavy metal posters from floor to ceiling as a way for me to express myself away from the cute girl clothes I always had to wear. I hung out with the heavy metal crowd and felt like such a dork some days because I wasn't wearing something I felt comfortable in or something that made me fit in with what my friends were wearing.
 
arw9797 said:

I'm 30 years old and to this day if I still wear something that she doesn't like she'll tell me that it looks bad on me even if I dont' think it does.

Ditto, and Im 38. lol. Im the eldest though. My younger sister doesnt have an issue with it but then she wears dressies, works in a clothes shop, etc. Not like her big sister who wears doc martens to her job in the safety and health (read "male") industry.

I have a 4 year old daughter (a bit different to a 14 year old I know). If she wants to wear her fairy outfit to daycare, I let her. Its just clothes.

We get our haircut sitting next to each other and she tells her hairdresser what she wants done - which is usually grow it longer and 5 plaits set out in a science fiction pattern on her head. Its just hair.

If she were older I would be the same as long as she wasnt dressing in a come hither fashion.

I think its better to let adolescents get all that sort of crap out of their system when their young and its socially acceptable to do so.

Ill shut up now, man, do I have issues :|
 
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Books on Etiquette are kind of an archaic thing to teach a girl growing up in a very modern and accelerated society. While it's good to have manners, some of Etiquette's teachings are a little prim, hoity-toity and oppressive for women.

I was a punk-type teenager and I turned out just fine. It's a means of self-expression, and if that is stifled, it will come out in other ways that will be far more destructive then a little 'alternative' way of wearing makeup.
 
beli said:


I have a 4 year old daughter (a bit different to a 14 year old I know). If she wants to wear her fairy outfit to daycare, I let her. Its just clothes.


Haha, I think the little girl I used to babysit invented the concept of layering Ts. She also always begged for me to put her hair in pigtail braids, but not all of it fit so one time I did a third braid coming straight out of the back of her head. The next week at church, she had the same thing! Her mom said she always wanted three braids. She also loved to wear tight pants with a pair of bright shorts and then a skirt on the top. Her parents just let her pick whatever and if kids mocked her, she's catch on and change her mind.
 
arw9797 said:
My room was covered with heavy metal posters from floor to ceiling as a way for me to express myself away from the cute girl clothes I always had to wear.

Oh my God you totally rock! :drool: :drool:


Actually all of you rock! Listen to them sarah_U27! :yes:
 
I'd let your daughter do what she wants with her personal style. Who knows, she might turn all girly-girl in a few months or a year anyway. That's what happened to me when I was a teenager - I went from wearing nothing but jeans and sweats to wearing pink, frilly stuff - and then after a while I got tired of it and went back to the jeans and sweats. But it was all of my own free will. My mom left me alone for the most part - except she drew the line at my wearing jeans to church.
 
Remember...U2 started off in the punk scene, cause they were all about trying to push the envelope and change stuff. Maybe in some wierd way your daughter is doing the same---when I was her age to be different was better than looking like a walking advertisment for Abercrombie. I assure you, she'll go through more phases in the next few years before finding 'herself'. It'll drive you nutty if your worry too much about it.....just go with it!
 
thanks so much...i think I have been a little critical maybe scared she'll rebel but i think this advice is good and i'll keep my mouth shut more often. you are right--there's a lot of experimentation & unconditional love is most important as well as phrasing feedback in a positive way. making suggestions but letting go as necessary. altho i think there's more to be said for Etiquette, as in NOT a list of rules, but just good manners. i'm not obsessive by any stretch when it comes to etiquette i just think there are some really good ideas in those books ... not all of it is good...yeah, i don't really care for flip flops at church, either. or jeans. i think because i was so sheltered i probably rebelled. i was in a strict home, so, i think it colors the way i view her. it's probably fear. well, she is really happy with the low lights & i will try to get her out to her favorite punk stores more often and bite my tongue. thanks again:wink: you guys are great!
 
heh...i remember when i was 14, i cut my own hair to look like that guy from flock of seagulls, and when i was finished, i had done it pretty good, but i was thinking holy sh** what've i done! it was what i wanted but at the same time it was a big change from having long straight one length hair to something really punkish. i hid under my blankets in my bed for 3 hours crying because of the major haircut i gave myself. i wanted to look punk and thats what i did. when my mom came home, saw my hair, i held my breath. she said...hey that looks good...when are you going to cut mine?

after that i felt better. she always gave me free reign on what i did with my looks, go thru my phases, and now im a mother to a 7 year old, just now discovering she has a choice in what she wants to wear, how to do her hair, etc. i pretty much let her as long as it looks decent.
 
My son went through every phase you could think of...red hair, blue, green, yellow, bangs only, mohawk, skinhead...I still loved him.

Wearing every style that was out there..leather, doc martens, jackets with the specials, ska, t-shirts with every band you could think of...and I still loved him.

Drinking, smoking, pot, weed, grass, bong, pipes, tattooing....and you know what...he has learned his own lessons and made his own way...

While the look and attire has dramatically changed, the tat's can't be removed and I love him all the same...a father's love for their child never changes..regardless the situation;

My daughter on the other had resists our love but she will come around once she finds her own way....right now she's being led by a stronger evil that even a father can't fight...:heart: your kids!

Mr. BAW
 
Sarah you cannot mold her into your own image. You cannot make her into anything. It will only lead to a lot of heartache for both of you if either one of you tries to make her anything she is not. People rarely do things at age 14 that they are still doing as an adult.

If she has low self esteem about her weight, tread awfully carefully. I cannot stress this enough. Support her Sarah, that is all you as a mother should do, and one of the greatest things any mother can do for their child.
 
I am possibly the most preppy person I know, aside from my younger sister that is. (I am in love with argyle this season) That said, we both went through a pseudo punk thing early in high school. We both grew out of it, we both joined a sorority, the anti-punk, where etiquette was important.
My mom was pretty good about letting us wear what we wanted. She had some rules, you know, the usual stuff like: clothes must be clean, hair must be washed, etc...
If I can thank her for anything, it would be her constant nagging about not slouching. I am a big busted girl and I hated to stand up straight b/c I thought it brought more attention to my bust. I now realize how much better I look when I don't slouch. If I had to choose my battles, I would not give up on the slouching.
As for worrying about her friends, good for you for taking notice. If you feel they are not good for her then you have every right to express that.
 
Angela Harlem said:
Support her Sarah, that is all you as a mother should do, and one of the greatest things any mother can do for their child.

:up: As much as I don't like the theories behind this book, read Reviving Ophelia and you'll see what happens to mothers who are overly pushy during their child's adolesence.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:


:up: As much as I don't like the theories behind this book, read Reviving Ophelia and you'll see what happens to mothers who are overly pushy during their child's adolesence.

Hunger Pains by the same author is also informative.
 
I remember my daughter at that age. She had her 12th birthday and turned almost overnight into a she-devil and stayed that way until she was 15! She also had the insecurities about her weight, I think most teenage girls do, and it was very hard for me to stand back when I was so worried about her health because she wasn't eating enough. Her make-up and fashion sense left me speechless, and as for her friends, total weirdos. I was convinced she would become a drug addict or drunk if one of her weird friends didn't stab her in the chest first! Anyway, she didn't. She's almost 17 now, has started college, has made nice friends, makes the most of her appearance and seems to know what she wants from life. My advice to you would be to keep a close eye on your daughter without making it too obvious and let her have her space. It's also wise to keep your mouth shut to avoid the arguements! My girl had an attitude that only a mother could love, but it's completely disappeared now and she is an absolute delight. Now, does anyone have any advise on boys? My son has just turned 11 and strange things are happenning! :confused:
 
Tracy63 said:
I remember my daughter at that age. She had her 12th birthday and turned almost overnight into a she-devil and stayed that way until she was 15! She also had the insecurities about her weight, I think most teenage girls do, and it was very hard for me to stand back when I was so worried about her health because she wasn't eating enough. Her make-up and fashion sense left me speechless, and as for her friends, total weirdos. I was convinced she would become a drug addict or drunk if one of her weird friends didn't stab her in the chest first! Anyway, she didn't. She's almost 17 now, has started college, has made nice friends, makes the most of her appearance and seems to know what she wants from life. My advice to you would be to keep a close eye on your daughter without making it too obvious and let her have her space. It's also wise to keep your mouth shut to avoid the arguements! My girl had an attitude that only a mother could love, but it's completely disappeared now and she is an absolute delight. Now, does anyone have any advise on boys? My son has just turned 11 and strange things are happenning! :confused:

I have three boys, I'll pray for you.
 
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