Church is depressing

[usermike2098]

well i live in a predominately white, irish catholic community in ontario. ive been going to church with my family since i was born. so lately, these masses they've been having are super super depressing to me and no one else seems to notice! its not like i'm emotionally unstable or anything. but anyways the last few sermons these priests have given are ridiculous. there was one where the priest was talking about his sons death and he went into huge details about how he hated god at the time. then the next one was about how nobody cares about the church anymore and that catholics are the only right people on the world. and this isnt some right wing fundamentalist church, its yer basic roman catholic joint. then the next one was how much money the church is in dept. they said the only reason the church didn't go under is because some janitor left thousands of dollas to the church.

but last week was the worst. he goes on and on about how gay people are wrong! like the last priests we had accepted gay people but i don't know if they supported their marriage. how can he say that homosexuality is wrong when a) some people can't help it and b) isn't the church supposed to accept all people? plus, didnt some guy in the bible have like 10 wives? thats destroying marriage.
so after his huge rant about how gays are bad and such he sits down and then calls up all of the kids for their first communion!
no wonder youths arent going to church anymore, the church is too depressing!

 

[yimou]

Church =

 

[Bonochick]

I was raised Catholic, and I basically have bad memories of going to church there. I always felt like it was a huge guilt trip to make us donate money. The CCD classes were the worst though...I was an outcast. I almost dropped out after one of my classmates described his perfect day as coming to school with a gun and shooting everybody he hated, starting with me...because he hated me the most. He also lit my hair on fire, but I was able to put it out right away.

However, I went to a Baptist youth group and enjoyed myself, and I sang in a Presbyterian choir, and I really loved that. I actually enjoyed going to church there...the people were wonderful. When I had to move, I was very sad to give that up. I haven't been to a church since (over 4 years ago). When I'm back home though, I have no desire to ever go to my old Catholic church, I'll tell ya that!

 

[BostonAnne]

Bonochick - that classmate in CCD was evil. I'm glad you enjoyed your experiences with the youth group & choir.

usermike2098, I can't imagine listening to sermons that preach things I don't believe in (the gay people are wrong one). If I had to sit through one, I'd take the first sermon of loss of a son and anger towards God. Seems like normal processes to me. I also think that it was healthy for him to share his experience and let others know that God will love you even if you are angry with God sometimes. Hopefully the Priest finished the story by explaining how God helped him in the end if he's a priest and all.

Not all Churchs are depressing. Make sure you try a couple of other ones out before you walk away from Church all together.

 

[For Honor]

Socially speaking, I can't think of a more "radica" environment for the pop culture kids these days....

sitting for an about an hour, listening, singing with your family?



The sad thing is, though, that those activities above are now considered "uncool" and "lame" or whatever word a kid would use. I, for one, am not someone who would neccesarily enjoy going to church every sunday, like my stepmother does. However, I can endure it, and it's not that bad. Most of the time, there is a good lesson to be learned, or at least something to contemplate. And really, the most important thing is the community that the church builds.

(though there are negatives like being exclusive in regards to those outside of that community..... a true follower of any religion, according to me, is accepting of others). But it's elements like that- the small things, the "insignifigant" things- the fleeting prescence of those things makes me wonder.


Because even if a kid hates it, it's good to learn how to deal with things you don't like, to mature. The norm around here, (and I live in America, and essentially, my surroundings are the "white suburbia", though I live on the far outskirts of that image...). Well, I don't even mean in just regards to where I live, but America as a whole, it seems. The mass media, and the "postmodern" shift in society....

that shift takes away all those things, and makes the churchgoing activity seem obsolete.


I don't claim to be a man of religion, but if the churches around here (my stepmother is very involved, and she's worried about them, too), if they keep going in the direction they are headed in, I would be a little concerned, because, at least on one level, churches are a barometer of the community around them, and perhaps as a whole nation.

 

[For Honor]

Yeah, one good thing I saw, (all things considered....)

was when I went to a friends youth group.


It was actually for troubled kids, and Zack was sort of suggested to go there because his grades were slipping and his mom wanted to try things out. The reason I liked it was because it involved religion in a less formal way - the kids played basketball or hung out in a little sort of "bar room", though it wasn't a bar or anything.

It gave kids a sense of community, and for Zack especially, it is good, since he is sort of ostresized (sp) at school. He likes Youthgroup a lot.


I feel, though, that if the churches opened up more to kids in that way, they woud do a lot better. Zack would never ever thinkg going to "chuch" as a valid way to spend time, or even a Friday night (which is when Youthgroup is), but since he's gone, I think he's really opened up to religion, which will be a good thing for him.


Now, if only he would grow up......

 

[nbcrusader]

Not all Churchs are depressing. Make sure you try a couple of other ones out before you walk away from Church all together.

Definitely check out different churches. And listen to sermons with an open Bible.

Hopefully you can find a place for true worship!


I should note, however, sometimes a good sermon can leave you depresed. This happens when you recognize the gap between God and you. A great sermon draws you closer to God even if it seems depressing at first.

 

[Liesje]

What Doug said, and I think church is only as depressing as you let it be. Either find a place you like or try to help change whatever's wrong.

 

[indra]

Churches have an agenda, and sadly, I've not found most of them that I've dealt with to be good. If you don't like it, don't go (if your folks make you, just zone out until during the sermons -- trust me, it works quite nicely, and learning how to zone out comes in handy when you start working for a living ).

And remember, churches aren't essential to faith.

 

[For Honor]

learning how to zone out comes in handy when you start working for a living ).

And remember, churches aren't essential to faith.

indeed

 

[nbcrusader]

And remember, churches aren't essential to faith.

An institution or building is not essential to faith, but gathering together with other believers is absolutely essential.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Why is that nbc? I'm asking genuinely, not being an arse lol. Why the fellowship? I've never understood why we can't do religion on our own, but need fellow believers and a church to attend and a priest/minister to monitor it.

 

[indra]

Why is that nbc? I'm asking genuinely, not being an arse lol. Why the fellowship? I've never understood why we can't do religion on our own, but need fellow believers and a church to attend and a priest/minister to monitor it.

I never got that bit either. Maybe I'm a cynic, but I just see getting together with other believers just a way of making sure everyone follows the "party line" so to speak. I think it applies to pretty much everything, not just religion or belief in a god or gods.

I think fellowship with others of similar interests can be good for some people, but I really do not see it as essential, and I think it can be detrimental to some. Again, I think it applies to anything really, not just faith.

 

[Angela Harlem]

i try not to be as cynical as that (and god knows i often fail ) and usually i put it down to people wanting to be with others of similar interests. you know, you like rocks/gems so you join a lapidary (sp? lol) club, you like art so you join a painting class and stop having showers. you like god so you join a cult and give all your money away.., ok, that was a joke that will offend sorry. but in seriousness, unlike those things people choose to do because they enjoy it, they dont come with guilt and baggage and a requirement to attend. church does. sorry, seems to.

is god really going to care if you sacrifice your sunday sleep-in or not?

 

[Ody]

Well, I think there are several reasons for involvement:

First, I think accountability is a very large factor. If you are on your own, (and this is my personality tendency), you are much more likely to focus on yourself instead of on God or on others. This can manifest itself in a variety of ways, and few of them good.

Second, I think it is to see the testimony of how God is involved in other people's lives. If you are isolated, even if you are close to God, you may not always see the big picture of how God is working in the world, and even through certain people in your local church.

Third, you are involved, corporately with a body of believers for worship. But beyond that, part of what being a Christian is servanthood, modeled by Christ. In a church environment, you can both be served by others and serve others. This builds character, both in you and other members.

I had another one, but I forgot it by fleshing out the others. Maybe it will come back to me...

 

[Liesje]

First, I think accountability is a very large factor. If you are on your own, (and this is my personality tendency), you are much more likely to focus on yourself instead of on God or on others. This can manifest itself in a variety of ways, and few of them good.

This is most significant to me. Also, I don't understand why someone wouldn't want to be part of a loving, supportive community. Also, if you're part of a particular belief that involves the Sacraments, church is necessary for that.

That said, I haven't attended a regular church service at my church in a long time. I took some classes at my college that helped me sort out what I believe from what I was raised believing and I'm now a professing member of my church. Part of it for me is that I'll be moving far away in a year and I don't want to put so much emotional effort into becoming part of a community that I know I'm leaving. The other part is the sleep factor.

 

[pookersmom]

Well, I think there are several reasons for involvement:

First, I think accountability is a very large factor. If you are on your own, (and this is my personality tendency), you are much more likely to focus on yourself instead of on God or on others. This can manifest itself in a variety of ways, and few of them good.

Second, I think it is to see the testimony of how God is involved in other people's lives. If you are isolated, even if you are close to God, you may not always see the big picture of how God is working in the world, and even through certain people in your local church.

Third, you are involved, corporately with a body of believers for worship. But beyond that, part of what being a Christian is servanthood, modeled by Christ. In a church environment, you can both be served by others and serve others. This builds character, both in you and other members.

I had another one, but I forgot it by fleshing out the others. Maybe it will come back to me...

These are all my personal arguments AGAINST fellowship. I also don't care much for your tone of "this is what a Christian is." Perhaps to you that's what a Christian is; to some of the rest of us, a Christian might just be a good person who doesn't treat other people like crap, in any way, shape or form.

Frankly, I fail to see the point of going to church if you can't find a church you like. It's not supposed to be torture, though I'm sure there are people out there who believe that it is.

 

[Liesje]

Frankly, I fail to see the point of going to church if you can't find a church you like.

I think excessive church-shopping can get dangerous as well. You gotta ask yourself are you leaving b/c of a spiritual/theological difference, or because the songs don't apply to your life, etc? Every once in a while I have to remind myself that it's NOT how I can make God relevant to MY life but how I can make my life relevant to GOD.

 

[nbcrusader]

Why is that nbc? I'm asking genuinely, not being an arse lol. Why the fellowship? I've never understood why we can't do religion on our own, but need fellow believers and a church to attend and a priest/minister to monitor it.

I guess part of it deals with learning. Perhaps there are some subjects we can learn entirely by ourselves, but something of this nature essentially requires interaction with others to learn.

I grow in my faith when I hear about the experiences of others. And I grow in my faith when I can share my experiences with others (helping to answer the question "why did this happen?").

 

[For Honor]

everyone has to make a sacrifice somehow, I think one of the most intriguing things is figuring out what it is, and what it is for

 

[Liesje]

I guess part of it deals with learning.

And the fact that humans are social, cultural beings. We go to school, work, etc. around other people....why would (or why should) religion be any different?

 

[Ody]

I also don't care much for your tone of "this is what a Christian is." Perhaps to you that's what a Christian is; to some of the rest of us, a Christian might just be a good person who doesn't treat other people like crap, in any way, shape or form.

Frankly, I fail to see the point of going to church if you can't find a church you like. It's not supposed to be torture, though I'm sure there are people out there who believe that it is.

Sorry if I came off that way. I wasn't trying to say: "this is the definition of a Christian." Instead, I was trying to give some reasons why I think it is valuable to go to church, for me, but also for many others that I know. Certainly, there are people who don't go to church who are Christians. I do think that servanthood is important, but it need not be done in a church environment.

I think that people should enjoy the church that they attend. If they have honestly tried several churches and made the effort—and don't like any of them, then it might be valuable for them to think about why all of them are distateful. There is quite a bit of variety between churches that I have seen—in style, content and quality.

 

[nbcrusader]

These are all my personal arguments AGAINST fellowship. I also don't care much for your tone of "this is what a Christian is." Perhaps to you that's what a Christian is; to some of the rest of us, a Christian might just be a good person who doesn't treat other people like crap, in any way, shape or form.

What is required, if anything, for a person to claim to be a Christian? Are there any absolute minimum beliefs? Minimum actions?

 

[For Honor]

that's a good question, really....

 

[pookersmom]

Sorry if I came off that way. I wasn't trying to say: "this is the definition of a Christian." Instead, I was trying to give some reasons why I think it is valuable to go to church, for me, but also for many others that I know. Certainly, there are people who don't go to church who are Christians. I do think that servanthood is important, but it need not be done in a church environment.

I think that people should enjoy the church that they attend. If they have honestly tried several churches and made the effort—and don't like any of them, then it might be valuable for them to think about why all of them are distateful. There is quite a bit of variety between churches that I have seen—in style, content and quality.

You are right, Ody, and I'm sorry if I sounded snippy. It's just one of those topics that hits close to home.

I would say that at the bare minimum, in response to nbcrusader's question (and this is just my own personal opinion, of course), to be considered a Christian, you'd number one have to want to call yourself one, but IMO, you also need to be a generally good person.

There's a large part of me that believes that a person can be a Christian without actually professing to be a Christian -- that there are people out there who are such good people, always going out of their way to help others and having the same general faith in humanity we see from Jesus Christ himself in the bible stories. They walk the walk but don't feel a need to talk the talk. Or they're Buddhists, or Jewish, or Muslim, or Hindu, or some other faith entirely. But this, I guess, is based on an assumption of what a Christian should behave like. And of course, we all know that there are so-called Christians out there every single day who don't behave decently.

Surely there's room for some error and mistakes on the part of everyone.

But I think, in the end, when we're done with our lives, we'll find that God really hasn't had the time to count how many times we went to church. One hopes God has better things to do with her time.

And of course, everyone should be a U2 fan. lol

 

[joyfulgirl]

When I was a kid dragged to church, I hated every minute of it. I grew up on a farm and I loved talking to God (or my childhood version of God) when I was out in nature and playing with my pets and stuff. I felt very, very close to God as a child--I would say in an unusual way even. I prayed a lot, I thought about God a lot, I used to sit in a tree and stare at the sky and contemplate the concept of God. But everytime I walked into the church it felt dead to me. The people seemed dead. They were talking about God and spirituality but they themselves I knew didn't have it. It was obvious to me. They themselves were the very walking dead that they claimed those who didn't know Jesus were. I had a recurring experience of dizziness at church and having to be whisked outside where I would throw up on the church lawn. I swear it was the restrictive, repressed vibe that literally made me sick. I'm not saying that's true of every church obviously but I am just sharing my experience of church as a child and well into my teenage years. I left the church and never returned but I feel the true temple of worship is inside me always and that's where I go.

 

[all_i_want]

depression is good. without depression, how would we ever know happiness?

 

[For Honor]

perspective is everything