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Old 05-25-2012, 03:23 PM   #31
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We briefly touched on this a while back, but what are everyone's thoughts on the genetic and physical shaping, to the detriment of the animal, of breeds through selective breeding. I'm thinking more along the lines of bulldogs, or pugs, etc... animals that almost certainly live uncomfortable lives due to their exaggerated features. There was a time when I wanted to own a bulldog, but recently, I'm finding myself not wanting to contribute to that sort of behaviour. Thoughts?
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:26 PM   #32
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I was typing my new question while you ladies responded to my previous post. I guess in my mind, since I'm not involved at all with dog breeding, there's a certain part of my imagination that has dogs running around the neighbourhood, breeding, filling out their genetics, ect, at one end and professional breeding at the other... Probably not very realistic, as you've both stated
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:26 PM   #33
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I have so many thoughts on that . There are a lot of well-intentioned breeders out there that are destroying breeds by trying to get a specific "look" for the dogs. This is particularly common in German Shepherds as well as in the breeds you mentioned. Many people breed for a slope without actually paying attention to research that shows how detrimental an extreme slope can be to a dogs' gait and development. There are GSD breeders who breed dogs with FANTASTIC temperaments that are nearly crippled because of their slopes, or dogs that are hindered by the slope. They genuinely believe nothing is wrong with this because it's so common now in the dog shows that it's just widely accepted.

I know for GSDs the UKC recently put in some stricter breed standards to be more specific in an effort to prevent these extreme slopes from continuing. I think it's really sad unfortunate and I do not want to support or endorse those breeders in any way.

Many people, unfortunately, who are new to purebreds might purchase a dog from one of those breeders thinking everything is great because the parents are conformation champions or fit the "look" and "temperament" and that furthers the whole fad. Education is important here so people know what to look for when evaluating a breeder. It's pretty easy to tell who is and isn't a backyard breeder with a few questions and a visit, but it's not as easy to find out if a dog's structure is hindering to function if you don't even realize it. You'd have to look at breed standard and really understand it.
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:28 PM   #34
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My previous post was based purely on specious reasoning, not scientific fact.

I've just never owned a healthy purebred dog. It's pretty fucked up.
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:30 PM   #35
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I have so many thoughts on that . There are a lot of well-intentioned breeders out there that are destroying breeds by trying to get a specific "look" for the dogs. This is particularly common in German Shepherds as well as in the breeds you mentioned. Many people breed for a slope without actually paying attention to research that shows how detrimental an extreme slope can be to a dogs' gait and development. There are GSD breeders who breed dogs with FANTASTIC temperaments that are nearly crippled because of their slopes, or dogs that are hindered by the slope. They genuinely believe nothing is wrong with this because it's so common now in the dog shows that it's just widely accepted.

I know for GSDs the UKC recently put in some stricter breed standards to be more specific in an effort to prevent these extreme slopes from continuing. I think it's really sad unfortunate and I do not want to support or endorse those breeders in any way.

Many people, unfortunately, who are new to purebreds might purchase a dog from one of those breeders thinking everything is great because the parents are conformation champions or fit the "look" and "temperament" and that furthers the whole fad. Education is important here so people know what to look for when evaluating a breeder.
Actually, I think that's where the conversation began the last time; German Shepherds and the 'frog like' appearance of some of the show dogs.

It was brought back to my mind because I recently saw a photo of what English Bulldogs used to look like just about 100 years ago. Obviously that's several times more generations than human's have gone through, but the changes are shockingly apparent. If I'm not mistaken, there's a movement to bring the animals back to their older appearance
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:33 PM   #36
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Anyway, I did the math for the heartworm dosage. I was wrong about my dose. I used to dose much higher (8x Heartgard) to also kill some other internal/intestinal parasites, but now am dosing 2-4x Heartgard because I have other means of dealing with other parasites. Please check my math!

http://www.dutchbingo.net/personal/ivomec%20dose.pdf




Solve for X and that's how many mL injectible 1% ivomec/ivermectin to give the dog (orally).

I buy this stuff on Amazon and use cheap 1mL syringes for dosing. I generally squirt it onto a piece of meat or dog food roll.
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:36 PM   #37
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That thread was based on a "documentary" that had a definite agenda. To be fair, I am only interested in German Shepherds. I personally was disgusted by some of the stuff that was shown, but I have no experience with those breeds so I cannot vouch for the accuracy. The Peke having to sit on ice because he was so hot was ridiculous. My dog ran 12 miles straight for an endurance test and then 20 minutes later we did a 10 minute difficult obedience routine in the hot sun in front of a judge from Germany. Also I have absolutely no experience with the Kennel Club in the UK and what sort of in-fighting goes on between fanciers on the other side of the pond. The footage and photos of the GSDs used were extreme examples. The dogs themselves (I know which ones they are) are not extreme examples but the documentary used very poor, unflattering photos and terrible footage. It's like if I made a documentary stating that all models are anorexic and only showed pictures of models who are 1 pound away from heart failure. That said there are some rather extreme GSDs out there and I think they are disgusting. IMO the American show lines are a totally different breed and I don't even include them when I'm talking about "German shepherds".

Yeah if you believe everything you read/watch, you'd think GSDs are part frog. Do my dogs look like frogs? These dogs are conformation champions, carry health certificates (not a vet certificate like you get from a puppy mill but have had their x-rays reviewed and rated by a pannel of orthopedic specialists), and have titles in about a dozen different sport, work, and temperament testing disciplines.







The debate is not really about purebred vs. mutt but WHO is doing the breeding. I know people that intentionally breed mixed dogs and do a far better job of it than the majority of pure German Shepherd breeders. Most breeders out there don't know enough about their own breed to own one much less be breeding them and producing sound temperament and health.
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:36 PM   #38
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Thanks Liesje!
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:36 PM   #39
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Actually, I think that's where the conversation began the last time. German Shepherds and the 'frog like' appearance of some of the show dogs.
I was at a dog event recently and saw a vendor who was selling leash hooks with a breed silhouette on the top of the hook. There were 3 versions of German Shepherds. The American Showline version, the German Showline version, and the breed standard version. I was talking to the vendor about the slopes and she said that oddly enough a lot of people prefer the version that fits the standard. It gave me some ray of hope.

I hate the frog like appearance.
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:37 PM   #40
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That thread was based on a "documentary" that had a definite agenda. To be fair, I am only interested in German Shepherds. I personally was disgusted by some of the stuff that was shown, but I have no experience with those breeds. The footage and photos of the GSDs used were extreme examples. The dogs themselves (I know which ones they are) are not extreme examples but the documentary used very poor, unflattering photos and terrible footage. That said there are some rather extreme GSDs out there and I think they are disgusting. IMO the American show lines are a totally different breed and I don't even include them when I'm talking about "German shepherds".
Oh, that's right. And yes, it was a very biased one at that, as I recall. It did bring up some interesting things to think about though and perhaps things to research independently
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:37 PM   #41
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Thanks liesje for that formula!
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:53 PM   #42
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Yes


NO! *shudder*
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:59 PM   #43
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Do my dogs look like frogs?
No way. Nice lookin dogs! I really like the middle one. Interesting colours
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Old 05-25-2012, 04:01 PM   #44
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NO! *shudder*
Yikes. It almost reminds me of a mermaid perched on the rocks. It looks as if these people want their animals to be perpetually making such a dramatic pose
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Old 05-25-2012, 04:03 PM   #45
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I don't even know how a dog WALKS even if the stack (posed position) is more extreme.

Oh this is a still video shot from Nikon's latest show. The two dogs on the right side are American show lines. Look at their hocks and rear compared to Nikon (bred in Germany). And that is how those handlers placed their dogs in a stack. Nikon just did the "down and back" and was not placed/stacked; the judge wants the dog to trot back directly at him, stop and stand on his own so he can evaluate the dog's expression and how he free-stands. And I used to think Nikon was cow-hocked!
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