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Old 08-08-2011, 05:39 PM   #946
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i'm wondering what is the best way to respond to a big boisterous dog like that when you meet it out and about??? i don't think he is aggressive, just massive and very very intimidating! if i do go that way, should i take a ball or something to throw for him, to distract him and get him away from the horses?? or would that just make it worse??
I agree talking to the owners and/or contacting 'Animal Control' would be preferable, but if that's not a viable option (rather un-French thing to do, I'm thinking?), then based on your description of a 'boisterous but nonaggressive' dog, I guess my resort for a horseback situation would be spraying the dog with a water pistol while saying "Go home." Are your horses afraid of dogs though? Because it'd have to be pretty close for you to have a good shot at it.
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Old 08-08-2011, 06:06 PM   #947
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You live in Europe, no? Just asking because the US and western Europe have a different culture with regard to dogs. In the US, things are very much like "get your dog off my property before I shoot it!" and people are not likely to get away with that sort of thing. I have to assume that everyone in my neighborhood hates dogs and be respectful about keeping my dogs in my yard, keeping them quiet, and obeying the local leash law (illegal for dogs to run at large, must be on a 6' leash when off the property). I'm not sure if it is like that in Europe, it seems to me that people are much more relaxes about dogs (when I watch Victoria Stillwell they are always taking dogs to random fields and turning them loose off leash, letting them run up to strange dogs and people, etc). If I had an issue with a dog as you describe, I would first ask the owner to fix the situation. If that did not work I would report to Animal Control. If the dog was running at large off the property and I felt comfortable doing so, I would catch it and bring it to Animal Control. I've done this before, usually for the safety of the dog. If their owner refuses to properly care for and contain their dog, I will bring it in so that they have to pay the fine and deal with AC to get it back, or leave it there and a better owner can adopt it.
hi Liesje,
thanks so much for the info! yes, i'm in Europe and there are very strict laws about keeping dogs on leads in public places - they are not legally allowed to roam free in the town or countryside, so the owners really are breaking the law... it's very rural where they are and they basically treat the footpath as their own land! i was asked by the local stables to go and talk to them (the other option was going straight to the local police) as the dog owners are English and don't speak a word of French... they were very polite and i explained that their dog is very likely to cause a nasty accident if he runs at a horse - a rider could fall and injure themselves very badly or worse if a horse spooks and bolts, and i explained all the implications and risks... plus i told them their dog could also get kicked and injured as a result as well... they said yes yes, of course they would be careful but it's been hopeless... it jumps over their fence, and is not secured on the property - they just cannot control it - even on a lead - it just drags them - it chased a car the other day and dragged the owner thru an upturned picnic table and chairs! the locals are finding it incredibly comical how these people cannot control their dog! he knocked a teenager off his bike a few weeks ago as well...

i think we're going to have to take it further and go to the local mayor and then the police...

i was wondering about what to do on the spur of the moment if confronted with him as we're quite likely even to just see them around out walking in the area and i know they cannot hold him on a lead... i don't think he's aggressive, just massive and boisterous... i can't make the horses trot or canter away from him to avoid an incident as that would trigger their flight instinct and wreck all their training re. dogs (they can cope with "normal" dogs out and about, don't bat an eyelid with barking/growling dogs behind fences, and tense up and tolerate loose dogs to an extent, although my horse has been known to strike out at dogs if they push it too far...)... so i'm wondering if turning my horse around to face him and actually yelling at it and chasing it would be effective??? my horses would LOVE that, and would cope well, but would the dog actually turn and run or attack?? i would hate for my horses to get hurt...

it's just a horrible situation and it really worries me... it's very hard trying to get any officials to do anything here, and i just don't want it to take a nasty accident to make it happen... i will go talk to the Mayor this week - if he is around - everything closes down here in August for the holidays!
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Old 08-08-2011, 06:12 PM   #948
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I agree talking to the owners and/or contacting 'Animal Control' would be preferable, but if that's not a viable option (rather un-French thing to do, I'm thinking?), then based on your description of a 'boisterous but nonaggressive' dog, I guess my resort for a horseback situation would be spraying the dog with a water pistol while saying "Go home." Are your horses afraid of dogs though? Because it'd have to be pretty close for you to have a good shot at it.
hi yolland!

thanks for that! yes, others have also suggested spraying him with a water pistol, but it would be a bit tricky to carry something like that around with me on horseback... i reckon that could spook my horses though, although they are used to being hosed down, and i could desensitise them quickly enough to it... someone warned against it though saying some dogs LOVE that and see it as a game and we would never get rid of him lol!! i thought a ball could be something i could fit in my pocket, and maybe that would distract him long enough til we'd gone by... i just don't know... the stable owners do want to go to the police but asked me to talk to the owners first (they're English and don't speak a word of French) just to see if it could be resolved amicably... they're very polite and friendly people and seemed to understand the situation, but the dog still jumps the fence and chases horses/bikes/cars...

i'm wondering about going on the offensive and getting my horses to turn and face him and chase him and drive him home, but wish i knew how he was likely to react... my horses are youngsters and have been doing so well with getting used to dogs, and can cope with "normal" dogs, small/normal sized dogs yapping around their feet and dogs on chains, or behind fences, but i fear this beasty is SO massive and exuberant he would blow their minds! he chased us the other day but we were far away enough for the horses not to register, but even from a distance he looked like a bear!

will definitely have to take it further, or at least encourage the stable yard to do so...
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Old 08-08-2011, 06:24 PM   #949
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Can you shoot him with a paint ball gun or something like that? Some people carry mace or pepper spray but most things I could suggest will probably be an issue for the horses. I'm thinking for a Newf, getting shot with water is probably more like fun than it is punitive. Why can't they just put him on a tie-out if they insist on keeping him outside unsupervised? I've seen what dogs can do to horses, or what can happen when a dog spooks a horse. I might be tempted to just purchase the tie-out myself if the owners agreed. I have a large dog that is an escape artist and at our old house, he had to be on a tie-out inside the fenced yard because he could get out. It's not ideal but keeps him safe and is WAY cheaper than thousands of feet of electric fencing.
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Old 08-08-2011, 07:12 PM   #950
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is a tie-out like a long chain?? something like that would be great! i did wonder about suggesting electric fencing -i guess they could section off an area around their home to keep him in - it would be more effective than the flimsy fence they have now (which he just jumps over!)... guess that could be quite expensive though... i doubt money is an issue with the owners though as they do look and act like they're rolling in it lol!!

don't think i could carry things like paint ball guns etc around with me on horseback so easily... plus it would be tricky with reins and things, especially if my horse was worried and spooky... although i reckon if he got too close within "shooting/spraying range" my horse would be likely to turn and double-barrel him or at least rear up and strike at/stamp on him, which wouldn't be pretty! (and i would probably fall off lol!)

do you think a Newf would turn and run away if chased on horseback with lots of shouting?? i'm still pondering that option lol!!

thanks so much for your input though, it's really helpful!
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Old 08-08-2011, 08:34 PM   #951
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We live in the country and I've seen people chase dogs off on horseback a couple times, medium-size mutts. But personally I'd be really, really uncomfortable recommending that approach to anyone, because dogs do sometimes attack horses and that can really get ugly. Obviously it's more likely the dog would panic and flee if charged by a horse, and presumably most dog-on-horse attacks involve the reverse scenario of the horse fleeing the dog thus activating its prey drive, still...Plus, clearly this Newf already has issues with thinking it's the boss of its owners and its territory, it's not merely "doing its job" as a watchdog, so to me that's kind of a red flag right there? My thought with the water pistol was just that that could be a way to startle and confuse it without making it feel threatened, but I can see the point that a water dog like a Newf might see that as a game.
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Old 08-08-2011, 10:19 PM   #952
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I tie-out can be a chain. Ours is more like a rope that is actually metal and has a plastic coating over it. They also come with a large spring/coil at the snap, so if the dog hits the end they don't get their neck snapped. We don't have that kind though b/c Coke learned how long his rope was and if he was chasing another dog or squirrel he would stop before getting snapped. We attach ours to a heavy-duty ground stake that has a rotating attachment, so it doesn't get wound up if the dog moves in a circle.

Our tie-out is like this, you can get various lengths


The coil kind has this on the dog end


I use this stake (the heavy-duty, large dog one)


NOT this one! even though it is the most common in pet stores here (my dog is large but only weighs 65 lbs and bent this one the first time he pulled)



E-fencing usually works but it is expensive and absolutely requires training, you can't just install it and slap the collar on the dog especially a large dog that is already charging off the property. A dog like a Newf would need a good quality, properly fitted collar b/c of their size and fur. It's important the contacts maintain contact (obviously). The dog needs to be trained where the boundary is and how to respond to the tone warning vs. the electric stim (I won't say "shock" because I have put many e-collars on myself and it doesn't feel like a carpet shock).

Personally I would not attempt a stand-off with any dog especially a large one that like yolland says already has no qualms about charging out. I'm not a horse person so I can't really speak to the presence or behavior of a horse, but like I said I've seen what a determined dog can do to a horse Even a lesser bite that a human or other dog could easily recover from could devastate a horse or get infected and make them lame which is basically death.
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Old 08-09-2011, 05:02 AM   #953
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oh god no, if there was any chance he would do anything other than turn and run, i just couldn't take the risk... he isn't aggressive apparently, but perhaps being assertive with him might not be so great... who knows how he would respond... especially seeing as he has complete disregard even for his owners... giving chase was suggested by a horsey person who has used that approach effectively (different dog and different horse though)... i think if we meet him out and about unexpectedly (i'm still avoiding the route past their house, but they do go out dog-walking in the woods and along other paths as well), i'm going to have to keep things as calm as possible...

definitely will be contacting the local mayor to see if he will have a word with them as well!!

thanks for the tie-out info Liesje! yes, i imagine he would need a really heavy-duty one due to his weight!
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Old 08-13-2011, 06:28 PM   #954
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Periodically, I feel quite loved and honored that my dog is always licking me.

Then I see her licking the side of a garbage can and it puts everything into perspective.
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Old 08-14-2011, 12:23 PM   #955
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Old 09-02-2011, 02:09 PM   #956
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hi Liesje,
thanks so much for the info! yes, i'm in Europe and there are very strict laws about keeping dogs on leads in public places - they are not legally allowed to roam free in the town or countryside, so the owners really are breaking the law... it's very rural where they are and they basically treat the footpath as their own land! i was asked by the local stables to go and talk to them (the other option was going straight to the local police) as the dog owners are English and don't speak a word of French... they were very polite and i explained that their dog is very likely to cause a nasty accident if he runs at a horse - a rider could fall and injure themselves very badly or worse if a horse spooks and bolts, and i explained all the implications and risks... plus i told them their dog could also get kicked and injured as a result as well... they said yes yes, of course they would be careful but it's been hopeless... it jumps over their fence, and is not secured on the property - they just cannot control it - even on a lead - it just drags them - it chased a car the other day and dragged the owner thru an upturned picnic table and chairs! the locals are finding it incredibly comical how these people cannot control their dog! he knocked a teenager off his bike a few weeks ago as well...

i think we're going to have to take it further and go to the local mayor and then the police...

i was wondering about what to do on the spur of the moment if confronted with him as we're quite likely even to just see them around out walking in the area and i know they cannot hold him on a lead... i don't think he's aggressive, just massive and boisterous... i can't make the horses trot or canter away from him to avoid an incident as that would trigger their flight instinct and wreck all their training re. dogs (they can cope with "normal" dogs out and about, don't bat an eyelid with barking/growling dogs behind fences, and tense up and tolerate loose dogs to an extent, although my horse has been known to strike out at dogs if they push it too far...)... so i'm wondering if turning my horse around to face him and actually yelling at it and chasing it would be effective??? my horses would LOVE that, and would cope well, but would the dog actually turn and run or attack?? i would hate for my horses to get hurt...

it's just a horrible situation and it really worries me... it's very hard trying to get any officials to do anything here, and i just don't want it to take a nasty accident to make it happen... i will go talk to the Mayor this week - if he is around - everything closes down here in August for the holidays!
Two words:

OBEDIENCE TRAINING!!!!

I have two dogs. Both went through obedience training. These dogs are my joys. Sure, they will still need reminders, but if I give a command, they are almost perfect at following it. And I have a Dalmatian - they are known for being a bit more rambunctious.

Obedience training also teaches the owner. Yes, a good class may be expensive. Mine went for "doggy boot camp" where they stayed overnight and were taught daily. But it was worth every cent. I was trained, they were trained and 5 years later, we are all very happy.

I recommend these people get their dog trained because if they do not, he will eventually cause problems and be put down.
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Old 09-03-2011, 07:05 PM   #957
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I agree, obedience training for any dog any age, breed, or purpose is a must. I could train dogs for a living (I sure spend my living training and competing with my dogs!) but I still take the same beginner level group classes with the trainers I've surpassed/outgrew long ago because it's important to proof the dog in a group setting and have other people there to help with your timing and hold you accountable for training. I just signed Pan up for a class and it will be my fifth time taking this exact class with the same instructor. He is already way beyond the level of obedience that the class will teach, but I want the AKC "Canine Good Citizen" certificate for all my dogs and I like the chance to practice his obedience in a group setting around other dogs that are under control.
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Old 09-07-2011, 05:19 PM   #958
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Dog (Molly) Sees Mom, Just Home From Afghanistan - YouTube
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Old 09-20-2011, 03:25 PM   #959
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that is just so adorable!!
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Old 09-20-2011, 04:13 PM   #960
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we had a good result with the scary Newfie while taking the horses out on a ride earlier!

lots of barking and growling from behind the flimsy wire fence - i don't think he wants to play! the horses were absolutely fine, but then he ducked thru a gap in the fence and came towards us - luckily he was on a tie-out - he could have come a lot closer as the lead was still slack but he sat down a couple of metres away and kept barking - at least he didn't try to jump up at the horses (which is what he normally does!) - we chatted a little while to the dog (trying to be friendly lol!!) and then the owner came out too and held him, and we were able to keep the horses nice and calm and then continue on our way... phew!!!

the dog definitely does need obedience training though - he did look a massive handful!!
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