Back problems, medical info and sharing advise

[A stor]

Some of us. Myself included. Went off topic. In the ETYKIW, thread on Bono's recent surgery.

Since there are a few members who have suffered back injury. That this would be a better sub-forum. To ask questions, and to share some advise.

Thanks!

 

[A stor]

I'll start.

Some of you probably know that I had a back injury. Similar to Bono's. While training in the Martial Arts. Though, my lumbar disc bulged, thank God. It didn't fragment.

I would like to share something that helps my back muscles to remain strong. Swimming! I even do the back strengthening PT in water. I find not only is this relaxing. But, I don't have to worry about muscle strain. Or re-injury of the weakened ligament and disc.

I'm not a doctor of course. But, my DR. said this is the best thing you can do for your back.

Everyone is certainly welcome to come here and discuss back and or knee issues. Ask each other questions. It is a way that we can support and help each other.

 

[Carek1230]

This is a good idea. Last summer, out of the blue I started having severe back pain then it started to spasm and I wasn't able after several days to get out of bed. Unemployed, no health insurance. It got so bad a friend called 911 and paramedics took me to hospital where I was kept overnight and a battery of tests were done. I had an ovarian cyst but there was no sign of it having ruptured or any leakage and I Was told it would likely dissipate on its own, but somehow the pain got tangled up with back issues and I've never been the same since. Long story short, I was diagnosed with a spinal disease known as DISH (Difuse Idiopathic Skeletal Hyperotosis) with IVP (Intervertebral Vacuum Phenomenon) @ L2-3 & L4-5, protuberant anterior osteophytes at all levels from lower thoracic spine to L-4. I was put on Disability where I remain, I applied for SS Disability (for long term) in January and there is yet to be a ruling to that claim. Meanwhile, I have good and bad days, I take a lot of medication when my back spasms or for my arthritis and RA which my body has become racked with. I spent several weeks in bed unable to move but slowly was able to get up and move about. Simple things like cleaning, doing laundry or even driving can be quite painful. Without health insurance it's been difficult to "heal" since I cannot afford PT or any further treatment. I've been seen by several doctors and told the DISH won't ever get better, but that it *can* be managed. I hate taking muscle relaxers and anti inflammatory meds as too much upsets my stomach that then affects my appetite and general well being. I feel a mess most days but take things one day at a time.

Soon I am moving to an apt community where they have whirlpools and a gym and a lovely oasis-type pool area offering twice weekly water aerobics classes which I am really looking forward to as all of these things, in moderation, will greatly help me. I will be in warmer weather as well so the cold weather shouldn't affect my bones and joints as much.

I try to self-"medicate" enjoying warm showers, trying to exercise as often as I'm able with use of a cane and I've had to rely on things like walker, toilet riser, shower chair and use wheelchairs at times which has been difficult to get used to. I fidget a lot as I'm unable to sit, stand or walk for long periods without having to move just to try to remain comfortable. The worst part is dodging people in crowds which is dangerous when it hurts to stand and walk! Waiting in lines is also difficult so I sit down a lot.

A good doctor, physical therapy and exercise are all key. I'd like to hear from others who have had success with water exercises and how it helped them.

I feel for Bono. Back issues and back pain in itself are not fun to deal with.

 

[A stor]

I feel for you, too, sweetie. I am so sorry to hear what you are going through.

 

[Carek1230]

Thanks. Like I said, back pain and back ailments ain't no joke. Hoping more people post in this thread

 

[A stor]

Same here......I was hoping that some from the Bono back surgery thread in ETYKIW. Will post. I sent PMS. One of the posters seemed to have quite a bit of medical expertise. In regards to back problems and surgery. I hope that he comes here.

 

[Carek1230]

Oh I hope so as well! Positive thinking!

 

[A stor]

Carek, if I am not being too personal. Do you live in the U.S? My PM was answered. And he may be able to recommend a good specialist. You don't have to post it here, if you don't want too. You can send me a PM.

 

[redhotswami]

Carek, which state do you live in?

I'm a student Chiropractor. All of our schools in the U.S. have clinics where we do our clinical hours. These clinics are intended for the community, and can provide treatment for people anywhere from $0-15 per session, depending on the school. This rate is regardless of insurance. The catch is that you are treated by a clinician supervised student intern, but in turn you get great care for a low rate.

If you are willing to share your state, I can look for nearby clinics for you where you can get treated, if you'd like.

Also one thing to remember is muscles help to maintain spinal alignment. You know this by feeling relief from certain physical therapies and exercises. I'd also like to add that massage therapy can also benefit, as well as acupuncture. Some chiropractic college clinics offer these 2 services as well.

 

[A stor]

Thank you Unico! And best of luck with your career. I have the greatest respect for those who work in the field of medicine. You folks, are the real "rock stars!"

Carek,

Here is a little information from a website Medicine Net. Com

"As for nutritional measures, it is known that oils of fish contain omega-3 fatty acids. Which, can provide additional antiinflammatory effects that might reduce some of the symptoms of DISH. They can be purchased at any pharmacy or health food store."

 

[Benji2112]

This is a good idea. Last summer, out of the blue I started having severe back pain then it started to spasm and I wasn't able after several days to get out of bed. Unemployed, no health insurance. It got so bad a friend called 911 and paramedics took me to hospital where I was kept overnight and a battery of tests were done. I had an ovarian cyst but there was no sign of it having ruptured or any leakage and I Was told it would likely dissipate on its own, but somehow the pain got tangled up with back issues and I've never been the same since. Long story short, I was diagnosed with a spinal disease known as DISH (Difuse Idiopathic Skeletal Hyperotosis) with IVP (Intervertebral Vacuum Phenomenon) @ L2-3 & L4-5, protuberant anterior osteophytes at all levels from lower thoracic spine to L-4. I was put on Disability where I remain, I applied for SS Disability (for long term) in January and there is yet to be a ruling to that claim. Meanwhile, I have good and bad days, I take a lot of medication when my back spasms or for my arthritis and RA which my body has become racked with. I spent several weeks in bed unable to move but slowly was able to get up and move about. Simple things like cleaning, doing laundry or even driving can be quite painful. Without health insurance it's been difficult to "heal" since I cannot afford PT or any further treatment. I've been seen by several doctors and told the DISH won't ever get better, but that it *can* be managed. I hate taking muscle relaxers and anti inflammatory meds as too much upsets my stomach that then affects my appetite and general well being. I feel a mess most days but take things one day at a time.

Soon I am moving to an apt community where they have whirlpools and a gym and a lovely oasis-type pool area offering twice weekly water aerobics classes which I am really looking forward to as all of these things, in moderation, will greatly help me. I will be in warmer weather as well so the cold weather shouldn't affect my bones and joints as much.

I try to self-"medicate" enjoying warm showers, trying to exercise as often as I'm able with use of a cane and I've had to rely on things like walker, toilet riser, shower chair and use wheelchairs at times which has been difficult to get used to. I fidget a lot as I'm unable to sit, stand or walk for long periods without having to move just to try to remain comfortable. The worst part is dodging people in crowds which is dangerous when it hurts to stand and walk! Waiting in lines is also difficult so I sit down a lot.

A good doctor, physical therapy and exercise are all key. I'd like to hear from others who have had success with water exercises and how it helped them.

I feel for Bono. Back issues and back pain in itself are not fun to deal with.

Hi Carek,

I did just type you a longer response, but I was called away and timed out. poof !

I have read your post and have some suggestions that should lead you to a place of some help. I will redo it in the morning .

Your condition can be managed better than it sounds like it is, and I would be glad to help you find someone who will do that, with total consideration for your situation.

There should be some more effective ways of dealing with the pain, even if it is just for the short term. I am going to guess a level 9-10? Pain will wear you out ( as you know ) so that and what/ if anything else besides the RA/DISH is causing it , I am sure you would feel much better dealing with that.

for now, a simple exercise you can do in the pool that should be very safe (generally) would be to simply go to a depth where the water is mid chest, and walk back and forth across the pool. Low to no impact, perfect resistance for lower back. If you can walk and move around , then this should be good for you. if, as with any activity, you feel any abnormal or severe pain, stop immediately.

For now, try Motrin rather than tylenol, and make sure you eat something before hand. be carefull of the tylenol and how much you are taking. approx 3,500 mg a day is near the limit .

I will PM you in the morning.

Hang in there. You can get your life back by managing this disease. If i can find somene to help you do that, I would be more than happy to do so.

B

 

[Carek1230]

Wow, this thread is fantastic! I am in California north county San Diego to be exact. I'm not sure I'd like chiropractic care, but am willing to try most anything as the pain and discomfort is so frustrating. I am in process of moving and am very much looking forward to the jacuzzi and water exercise class as well as the walking in the water. That is the best exercise for joints and for my situation.

Thank you all for your tips and suggestions. I will try to be in touch with Interference but may be too busy the next few days. Should have my PC set up by Thursday. I have my iPhone but may not have time. I am trying so hard to pace myself but I am in so much pain with this packing and moving process. The muscle relaxer helps me get a good night's sleep and rests my muscles so that's good. I'm also taking Ibuprofen 800. Motrin, Tylenol....nothing OTC was helping me.

I will check back when I have a chance....but thank you all, really I appreciate all the information!

 

[Benji2112]

Ahh San Diego. perfect. I know 2 awesome Drs ( their words not mine, but they are ) who would be more than happy to help.

Give us a shout when you are back online.

 

[A stor]

Benj, thanks for posting here. I know you are extremely busy. But, your advise is well appreciated.

God bless.

 

[Benji2112]

Benj, thanks for posting here. I know you are extremely busy. But, your advise is well appreciated.

God bless.

NP Be easy to hook them up, and they will take care of everything.

 

[A stor]

For lower back pain, water is the best thing. I can't tell why in medical terms. All I know is that it works wonders for my back.

Once a week. I go swimming in an olympic size pool. I do all of my back stretching exercises and have great flexibility. 90%! In the pool. I can bring my knees up to my chest. My upper back feels great from the swimming part! No neck problems either. It even helps my knee. I wish. I could live in that pool!

Five days per week, I walk at a moderate pace for thirty to forty minutes. Always making sure, I drink plenty of water. On Sundays, I relax.

But, water is like some sort of miracle drug. It really makes my back and leg muscles strong. Not to mention at age 53, no flabby arms, either. So, even when I have to walk up hill. I am not straining, anything.

I swear by doing exercise in a pool. It can be a three foot deep, back yard one. From the K-Mart. Same effect. For strengthening the back.

I posted this in the Bono surgery thread. I hope no one minds. I would like to share it hear.

When, I had a martial arts injury. Torn lumbar ligament, pulled muscles, bulging disc and sever compression of the Sciatic Nerve. My insurance company refused to pay for any physical therapy. Saying it would be elective. My DR. at that time. Did triple duty. Not only was he my internist, but also an ortho back specialist and PT. He even gave me free medical books. He beat my insurance company by having all of my appointments as "follow ups." He showed me exactly how to do the PT at home. Knowing, I couldn't afford thousands of dollars in medical bills. He even recommend that K-Mart pool.

At the time of my injury, it was really kind of touch and go. I was in an extreme amount of pain. Much worst than even having natural childbirth, with no meds. of any kind. Walking ten feet from my bedroom to the bathroom. I was almost, passing out. No joke. From the disc bulging through the torn ligament and into the Sciatic Nerve.

My so called insurance company. Who had no problem taking money out of my husband's paycheck each week. Would not cover surgery. Even four weeks in. I was still at level 10, with pain. Couldn't support myself without a walker or sit in a chair. I was flat on my back. My doctor felt the ligament needed to be repaired. Insurance company still refused. I would have had to pay for it. He was and still is a great DR. He saw me every two weeks. For first four months. To see how I progressed. Then, after I could sit in a chair, it was once per month. For the next four months.

He told me the red flags. Don't hesitate to call 911. My old insurance company would have had to cover it then. Or it would have been one hell of a law suit against them. Not, my DR. Of course. He did everything in his power to help me get better and would have went to court in my behalf.

My advise.....try to get good insurance. Before, you pay for anything. Read exactly what they cover and don't cover. I have much better insurance now. They cover almost everything. From nutritionist to diabetic education classes. Weight loss programs. All of my blood work, mamograms, imaging, woman's care and even surgery and PT. If I would ever need it.

 

[lauramullen]

I get lower back pain after a few hours at work. Does anyone know of any good stretching techniques? I don't think it is really pain, but more like tightness.

 

[A stor]

Yes, I can think of one that helps me.

Lay on a yoga mat or bed comforter on the floor. Bend your knee and slowly bring it up to your chest. Hold your knee there with your hands for about ten seconds. Then release and gently bring your leg back down to it's lying position. Repeat for other leg. I do about ten per leg, taking turns back and forth. Right, left, right, left, etc. This is a great stretching exercise for that huge lower back muscle and mild Sciatica.

When, you do back exercises. You'll want to do them slowly and very gently. Any sign of pain. Stop, right away. And don't worry if you are not too flexible at first. This will come. Never force any stretches.

Hope this helps!

 

[Carek1230]

Well to update I've moved. It took all my energy and I'm exhausted in so much pain but it's done & best part of all is I can take my time unpacking and settling in. The jacuzzi is close by and it sure feels good at the end of the day. I cannot wait to get settled and start walking in the big pool and taking the water exercise classes! My stomach is giving me fits from all the ibuprofen 800 I've been taking and I've had to take muscle relaxers at night to calm the back spasms. I do love my new home tho. Good news in the mail six months after applying for SSDI I'm advised I'm accepted and approved which is a huge relief. Proof that there is power in positive thought and that good things DO come to those who wait! Now I just need to get the computer, TV, cable stereo etc all hooked up and I'm a really happy camper. Best to all who are posting and sharing in this thread. Happy 4th.

 

[A stor]

Glad to hear it, Carek. About moving and the SSDI. I understand about the ibuprofen. I could only take it for eight weeks, before it was causing me some stomach issues. I was at the 800 mg. Dosage level. When, you see your doctor. Make sure you mention this. There may be something else you can do for pain management.

 

[Benji2112]

Glad to hear it, Carek. About moving and the SSDI. I understand about the ibuprofen. I could only take it for eight weeks, before it was causing me some stomach issues. I was at the 800 mg. Dosage level. When, you see your doctor. Make sure you mention this. There may be something else you can do for pain management.

Yes, good news on the SSDI. Usually takes a long time. the good thing is you can get medicaid now, and get into see the right Drs.

A good pain magement Dr would help you greatly , can try injections, or perhaps something for the breakthrough of the pain. Lite narcotic would not hurt you, and taken as directed, you won't get hooked , contrary to popular belief. Shots help, or don't, or for a while.Worth a try.

If you are seeing someone for the RA, there are meds to relieve pain many of them are new, and God knows what the side effects vs potential relief are. they are different , for different people

Definately look in the medicaid. You will have every covered and get some relief from the pain, and everyone can get together and decide what is best.

Take the ibuprofen after you have eaten. It will help greatly with the stomach. Be carefull how much you take.

Water excercise will help.

Hang in there

 

[Carek1230]

I this thread. All the information is so helpful and appreciated! I can't be more thrilled on the SSDI triumph. I filed the claim in January 2010 when SDI advised me to do so for long term disability. I heard they denied approximately 60% of claims filed. I kept thinking positive and kept the hopeful attitude and it worked! I am almost done moving things around my new place and getting settled and have enjoyed the jacuzzi each day this week. The knees are bothering me now but that's to be expected what with all the physical activity involved with moving. I feel I'm on the mend and will try all the recommendations suggested here. Thanks again one and all

 

[lauramullen]

Yes, I can think of one that helps me.

Lay on a yoga mat or bed comforter on the floor. Bend your knee and slowly bring it up to your chest. Hold your knee there with your hands for about ten seconds. Then release and gently bring your leg back down to it's lying position. Repeat for other leg. I do about ten per leg, taking turns back and forth. Right, left, right, left, etc. This is a great stretching exercise for that huge lower back muscle and mild Sciatica.

When, you do back exercises. You'll want to do them slowly and very gently. Any sign of pain. Stop, right away. And don't worry if you are not too flexible at first. This will come. Never force any stretches.

Hope this helps!

Thanks. I'll try some of these before work.

 

[A stor]

Laura, do them after work as well. They won't hurt or strain, if done properly. The stretches should be done very slow. (Think yoga). It really does help to strengthen those loser back muscles. I do these every day. Another exercise I do is too sit cross legged on the floor. Ankles close to the thighs (Indian position). I sit with my back straight. I stretch my arms out in front of me. And I slowly bend my back and reach with my hands and touch the floor in front of me. I slowly, with my back relaxed and one vertebrae at a time. Straighten my back. This is good for the upper back and neck, too.

If you are not sure, what I am saying. It can be confusing without pics. Google back strengthening exercise. Websites will show pics of the proper techniques.

 

[Benji2112]

Laura, do them after work as well. They won't hurt or strain, if done properly. The stretches should be done very slow. (Think yoga). It really does help to strengthen those loser back muscles. I do these every day. Another exercise I do is too sit cross legged on the floor. Ankles close to the thighs (Indian position). I sit with my back straight. I stretch my arms out in front of me. And I slowly bend my back and reach with my hands and touch the floor in front of me. I slowly, with my back relaxed and one vertebrae at a time. Straighten my back. This is good for the upper back and neck, too.

If you are not sure, what I am saying. It can be confusing without pics. Google back strengthening exercise. Websites will show pics of the proper techniques.

I think I can scan a brochure on the exercises you are refering to . They are good and work when done regularly. As you well know. If I can't I will link one .

The walk in water is the same theroy, and that will help too. It really is after an injury, and with age, use it or lose it type of thing.

 

[Benji2112]

I this thread. All the information is so helpful and appreciated! I can't be more thrilled on the SSDI triumph. I filed the claim in January 2010 when SDI advised me to do so for long term disability. I heard they denied approximately 60% of claims filed. I kept thinking positive and kept the hopeful attitude and it worked! I am almost done moving things around my new place and getting settled and have enjoyed the jacuzzi each day this week. The knees are bothering me now but that's to be expected what with all the physical activity involved with moving. I feel I'm on the mend and will try all the recommendations suggested here. Thanks again one and all

They usually deny 100% the first time, so that is really great. Like i said before, don't hesitate to get on medicaid or something . should be approved immediately. You should follow up with a Dr or Drs to stay up on the DISH . You want to watch out for any bone growths that can pop up, and can be a bad source of pain.

Please try to stay below 4,000 mg of Tylenol a day . Someday, the media will make this epedemic problem well known. OD in the sense of too much is now the leading cause of liver failure and transplant.

Let me know if you need a cupe of Drs numbers. They will be glad to help you , gratis.

 

[A stor]

I think I can scan a brochure on the exercises you are refering to . They are good and work when done regularly. As you well know. If I can't I will link one .

The walk in water is the same theroy, and that will help too. It really is after an injury, and with age, use it or lose it type of thing.

Very, very, true.....Benj.

After all of the "bed rest" not being to move around much. Six to eight weeks. As soon, as back heal enough, to not risk re-injury. I was doing my DR.'s physical therapy. Yes, it hurt. Because, I also had muscle stiffness to deal with. But, I was persistent and did it exactly the way. I was shown. Recovery was long. But, I wasn't working at the time. Full time mom of a teenager and homemaker. So, I wasn't "rushed." My husband's pay covered our bills, living expenses, etc.

Seven to eight months. I had 90% flexibility as my Martial Arts days. With gentle stretches and/or the water therapy. Done on a daily basis. Believe me, it really does work. My injury was 13 years ago. And I still do them, along with walking, swimming, dancing the Cha-Cha, etc. I haven't had sever compression of the Sciatic Nerve, since then. I am a very active "granny" with a six year old grand daughter.

Benj, several times. Has brought up something that is the most important. There really is a time frame or window of opportunity. Healing, PT, with back surgeries. If you don't use it. You certainly will lose it.

It's not my call. But, there was no way. After eight weeks with my injury. I could have stood on stage for two hours and performed. Maybe, surgery makes a much speedier recovery. I don't know. Though, I am glad now. In my situation. I followed the course of treatment. That, I did.

 

[Benji2112]

Very, very, true.....Benj.

After all of the "bed rest" not being to move around much. Six to eight weeks. As soon, as back heal enough, to not risk re-injury. I was doing my DR.'s physical therapy. Yes, it hurt. Because, I also had muscle stiffness to deal with. But, I was persistent and did it exactly the way. I was shown. Recovery was long. But, I wasn't working at the time. Full time mom of a teenager and homemaker. So, I wasn't "rushed." My husband's pay covered our bills, living expenses, etc.

Seven to eight months. I had 90% flexibility as my Martial Arts days. With gentle stretches and/or the water therapy. Done on a daily basis. Believe me, it really does work. My injury was 13 years ago. And I still do them, along with walking, swimming, dancing the Cha-Cha, etc. I haven't had sever compression of the Sciatic Nerve, since then. I am a very active "granny" with a six year old grand daughter.

Benj, several times. Has brought up something that is the most important. There really is a time frame or window of opportunity. Healing, PT, with back surgeries. If you don't use it. You certainly will lose it.

It's not my call. But, there was no way. After eight weeks with my injury. I could have stood on stage for two hours and performed. Maybe, surgery makes a much speedier recovery. I don't know. Though, I am glad now. In my situation. I followed the course of treatment. That, I did.

still think it was grafted x2 ... he has some wiggle room , as I think it was the 25th, and turin is the 6th. But the statement was one way, then he other. my best friend is a promoter, and they have a wishy washy way of saying thngs sometimes you know? They always leave a little room.

 

[A stor]

Benj......I have a hypothetical question. Surgery help so many of those with back issues, especially with the lumbar disc and compression of the Sciatic Nerve.

I am not questioning your expertise, at all. I truly appreciate all that you have shared.

But, my question. One, I have pondered over for 13 years.

Would surgery have helped me to recover, faster? Of course, I don't blame anyone for my injury. It was an accident. Not looking to suing anyone, either. Since then, I have completely recovered. My JH DR. was great. Did the best he could. But, can surgery be done for a bulging, though not herniated brittle disc fragments, torn ligament, compression of Sciatic Nerve. And have better results than the long, painful Conventional Therapy?

I see subject "B" recovering so much faster. Than I was. For an injury. I think may have been similar to mine. That is the real reason for my questions.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Benji2112]

Benj......I have a hypothetical question. Surgery help so many of those with back issues, especially with the lumbar disc and compression of the Sciatic Nerve.

I am not questioning your expertise, at all. I truly appreciate all that you have shared.

But, my question. One, I have pondered over for 13 years.

Would surgery have helped me to recover, faster? Of course, I don't blame anyone for my injury. It was an accident. Not looking to suing anyone, either. Since then, I have completely recovered. My JH DR. was great. Did the best he could. But, can surgery be done for a bulging, though not herniated brittle disc fragments, torn ligament, compression of Sciatic Nerve. And have better results than the long, painful Conventional Therapy?

I see subject "B" recovering so much faster. Than I was. For an injury. I think may have been similar to mine. That is the real reason for my questions.

Thanks in advance.

Generally speaking, disks budge because of narrowing of the space between the vertabrae . Could be for many reasons, accidents, age . all people have some form of spondylosis, mild to severe as we age.

When they blow, that is one thing and another set of choices . When they bulge, PT usually can do the trick. If possible, PT is the the first choice.

In most instances PT can resolve it. Contrary to popular belief , a surgeon will try this first.

I tried it for my car accident on my neck for over 6 months,6 hours daily, but it didn't resolve. I had actually broken the c-7. So even after the surgery, I still have pain, and I can litterally feel each screw in the plates. Movement is somewhat limted, but it's minor. In my instance, it would have been worse over time. There will usually be some issues, even after the surgery, so that is taken into consideration .

So, it sounds like you did he right thing. I know the MA is a loss, but it seems you have most of your activities back. That is best case scenario I would think.

I go to the gym and I see very few people working on their spine, or back strength . Proper posture , and back/spine exercise can eliminate many problems down the road. Swiming is one of the best