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Old 04-05-2017, 06:45 PM   #76
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Yeah, i was being a little eh, wry, guys. Independent Australia makes my skin crawl and New Matilda long ago made the decision to go tabloid (though one or two individual columnists, like Ben Eltham, are ok).
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Old 04-05-2017, 07:07 PM   #77
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A move further to the left would help differentiate them. A drift to the right gives even less reason for them to exist. Why buy the Age if it just provides a slightly less hysterical version of the Hun's editorial line? Why buy the Age if it will give the current government as much of a pass as the Australian does?
Ax be under no illusions this a deliberate and calculated move by the powers-that-be. I agree wholeheartedly, but it's very clear to me that this is just a way of lining the pockets of the very few before selling it off to an even bigger idiot. They know what they're doing. They don't give a shit about anything else.
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Old 04-05-2017, 07:40 PM   #78
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Ax be under no illusions this a deliberate and calculated move by the powers-that-be. I agree wholeheartedly, but it's very clear to me that this is just a way of lining the pockets of the very few before selling it off to an even bigger idiot. They know what they're doing. They don't give a shit about anything else.
Time for some asset stripping, huh.
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Old 04-06-2017, 07:42 AM   #79
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I wonder how it feels for Malcolm Turnbull, in his quiet moments, to know that he's less than a footnote in Australian history. I mean, seriously, he's a footnote to Tony Abbott. This is why I wasn't particularly fussed when he rolled Abbott, beyond considerable irritation at the thwarted opportunity to vote out an Abbott government at an election; I knew it would come to this.

As an aside, I see the forum is now doing the thing it was doing about 18 months ago where it won't even load unless I visit via a proxy server. I mean, what's that about?
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Old 04-06-2017, 09:10 AM   #80
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Meanwhile in the UK, the liberal punditry are outraged that Corbyn wants to bring back free school meals for children - so things are pretty dire at the moment, and a good reason why my tolerance for liberals is at an all time low.
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Old 04-06-2017, 10:22 AM   #81
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I wonder how it feels for Malcolm Turnbull, in his quiet moments, to know that he's less than a footnote in Australian history. I mean, seriously, he's a footnote to Tony Abbott. This is why I wasn't particularly fussed when he rolled Abbott, beyond considerable irritation at the thwarted opportunity to vote out an Abbott government at an election; I knew it would come to this.

As an aside, I see the forum is now doing the thing it was doing about 18 months ago where it won't even load unless I visit via a proxy server. I mean, what's that about?
Turnbull could have been remembered as the Prime Minister who dragged the Liberal Party back to being the party of Menzies. Instead, well, we got the man you describe. He will be the most forgettable PM since Gorton and McMahon, who nobody today could say a single thing about.

Also, I've never experienced the thing you describe about the forum not loading, not at home or work or mobile.

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Meanwhile in the UK, the liberal punditry are outraged that Corbyn wants to bring back free school meals for children - so things are pretty dire at the moment, and a good reason why my tolerance for liberals is at an all time low.
I don't spend much time following British politics, and as a consequence I don't know how I feel about Corbyn. On the one hand he seems to command enough support among the base to maintain his leadership, and he's not that far from my own ideology. On the other hand he seems to be torpedoing any chance of electoral success, and at times appears to have rubbish political instincts.

Also, I'm just a little baffled by this hatred for "liberals" at the moment, since the word is so poorly defined. I mean, I'm socially liberal, and so is practically every socialist and social democrat. In my own political awakening around 2004, liberal and left-wing were practically synonymous, but now "leftist" and "liberal" are posited as opposed ideologies. Yes, there's been a hardening of political perspectives in the past 13 or so years, but I find it ridiculous when "leftists" and "liberals" with rather similar principles and objectives spend more time loathing each other than the right.
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Old 04-06-2017, 10:25 AM   #82
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I've come to hate both terms, the fucking culture wars will still be going when Syria has rebuilt itself as the fourth great world power.

You know what is amazing, Clarke and Dawe. How many years, and they're still excellent. When there's no one left but cockroaches they'll still be turning out the goods.
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Old 04-06-2017, 07:17 PM   #83
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The problem is that liberals, at least in the way that word gets used in America, are fairweather friends. Superficially sure, you might say why shouldn't liberals and those further left be allies? Why not indeed. But at the first hint of an actual left policy program, liberals turn right and pull up the ladder. It's a dynamic nearly as old as the French revolution.

I would guess that is what Vlad was getting at, and to a considerable extent, I tend to agree.

As for Corbyn, I don't pay enough attention to British politics either. I want to like him, I support the version of Labour he wants, and it seems like a hell of a lot of Labour members do as well, but it does seem that his ascendancy remains a symbolic victory. On a personal level he and those close to him seem to be not very effective politicians. It's a shame, a real shame.

The weird server bullshit sorted itself out anyhow. So that's something.
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Old 04-06-2017, 07:24 PM   #84
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Turnbull could have been remembered as the Prime Minister who dragged the Liberal Party back to being the party of Menzies. Instead, well, we got the man you describe. He will be the most forgettable PM since Gorton and McMahon, who nobody today could say a single thing about.
The best thing Turnbull can hope for is that there isn't another economic crash on his watch, because then he gets the opportunity to go down in history like Stanley Bruce (who at least did quite a lot of what I guess we'd called NGO work these days, in his long retirement).
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Old 04-06-2017, 11:55 PM   #85
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Leftists have opposed/had issue with liberals for many, many years - it's certainly not a new thing. And understandably it's because our goals are markedly different.
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Old 04-07-2017, 12:00 AM   #86
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Also, Corbyn's policies are so mildly social democratic, it's telling how far to the right the mainstream is when the 'sensible centrists' take issue with virtually anything he says/suggests.
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Old 04-07-2017, 01:11 AM   #87
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The key argument from the remnant Blairites seems to centre around 'electability'. But as in the US, that mob can't even win elections anymore. So what's the fucking use of them?
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Old 04-07-2017, 01:29 AM   #88
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Blairites tried to be Tory-lite, that sure got them elected in 2015! They're shameless.
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Old 04-07-2017, 02:12 AM   #89
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They'd rather lose than lose their grip, is what it amounts to.
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Old 04-09-2017, 09:17 PM   #90
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People think 2016 was awful, John Clarke has died
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