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Old 11-07-2017, 03:28 AM   #511
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As entertaining as it all is, I think it's fucking stupid. Seems to me to be a no-brainer that dual citizens should be allowed in Parliament. It's fucking ridiculous that it isn't... what's the reasoning?!
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Old 11-07-2017, 05:10 AM   #512
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Well it wasn't an issue when the constitution was written at the end of the nineteenth century! Literally all five that were rubbed out - and now Parry - would've been eligible until at least 1948 and probably later. (My guess is 1977 for Kiwis and 1984 for Poms.) Ironically the only one who would've been rubbed out back in 1901 is one of the two who managed to get off: Canavan, as an Italian, if the court had actually been able to make a conclusive ruling on whether or not he held Italian citizenship.

The concern was divided loyalties between the British Empire and anybody else. This was a fairly normal concern until quite recently; many countries did not permit dual citizenship, or indeed still don't. I seem to recall that Australia only allowed its citizens to acquire multiple citizenships in 2002 (but permitted people like me to gain Australian citizenship without renunciation; the prohibition was simply on getting more once you were one).

Of course, now the definition of citizenship has narrowed, and with no change to the wording all these people now find themselves excluded.

The constitution is now rather out of step with society, but I don't see it changing. It would take both courage and a multipartisan effort to take a successful referendum to the people. And it's absurd. We're going to see a less representative parliament as parties shy away from standing candidates of "difficult" ethnic groups whose citizenship will be difficult and expensive to sort out.
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Old 11-07-2017, 06:16 PM   #513
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Exactly. As the British Empire of which this country was once a part withered away until it didn't even exist on paper (the various definitional changes over the course of the last century), we end up with a bit of a bind.

But anyway, I'm available. Pretty sure I'm in the clear. Some of the countries my ancestors came from don't even exist! (Prussia)
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Old 11-10-2017, 10:00 PM   #514
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So now John Alexander's definitely out (pending byelection) and there's some (less actually serious from what I can gather) mumblings about some Labour people too... the waters are moving faster and rougher now.
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Old 11-10-2017, 11:03 PM   #515
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Now it looks like a Lib managed to get Italian citizenship by marriage! This is bonkers.

And I think at least one of the ALP MPs is in trouble, depending on how long a delay in processing renunciation the High Court decides is unreasonable.
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 11-10-2017, 11:37 PM   #516
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Man that is a stupid law.
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Old 11-11-2017, 12:24 AM   #517
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It's a stupid law as it stands now, like we've gone over in this thread, it made more obvious sense and wasn't so ridiculous in its effect at the time of federation.

But, it is what it is. A little bit like with the US Electoral College (which, a. I can see some logic for, it's antidemocratic at the voter level, but arguably justifiable at the level of the nation being a union of sovereign states, and b. is the rules of the game for the foreseeable future whatever we think of it).
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Old 11-12-2017, 04:30 AM   #518
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I think the media - and not just the trash Sunrise/Dancing With The Stars kind - have a fair bit to answer for in endlessly talking up and boosterising for One Nation. Often there's a mea culpa on election night (as in WA), but no matter, the narrative rolls on. As with the US, and Trump, it is hard for me to overestimate the extent to which it is entertainment for them. Ratings and clicks.

We are none of us well served by the major (and even some of the less-major) outlets in this era.
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Old 11-12-2017, 04:37 AM   #519
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"Here's what happened" is not terribly useful without "here's why/how", and a lot of the media have failed to do the second, or to hold people accountable for their claims.

And if that doesn't drive ratings, I find it hard to blame them alone. It's a symbiotic relationship.
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 11-12-2017, 04:51 AM   #520
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Indeed.

Yes to the second part as well. The trouble is what we've got right now is a kind of vicious cycle of decline.
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Old 11-12-2017, 05:04 AM   #521
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It definitely doesn't drive ratings - and more importantly, it doesn't drive clicks. See what happened with the racist, stupid cunts that abused Dastyari. There were so many media organisations that were complicit, either badly (calling them right-wing activists or tempering their language) or really badly (openly giving them a platform). Both of them legitimise this shit, and it makes me furious.

The only outlets that don't play along with this game? Buzzfeed, Junkee, Pedestrian (+The Monthly, Saturday Paper, Guardian Aus to a slightly lesser extent). Which is fucking INFURIATES me when people trash the work of those first three, the media that's so often called "clickbait" or "listicles" and so on, when THEY are the only ones reporting on these things immediately, giving it proper context and calling cunts for being cunts. I consume 10x the amount of media through Buzzfeed and Junkee as I do The Age and SMH these days.
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Old 11-12-2017, 05:53 AM   #522
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We may be talking at cross purposes a little bit here. What I'm saying - I've no view one way or the other on Junkee et al - is that the media, including the likes of the Guardian, relentlessly talk up the significance of One Nation (as opposed to, I dunno, say, the Greens?) and it not only drives clicks, hell yes, it actually serves to boost the party (I loosely call it a party, it's a cargo cult) and its prospects at the polls.

By all means call out cunts as cunts. That's a whole other thing.
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Old 11-12-2017, 06:59 AM   #523
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Yep. I won't lie that I feel I have done my tiny little part to contribute to that decline. I never subscribed to Fairfax and happily took what I wanted for free, and when they first set up their paywall found a way around it - and now they are so shit, and have dismissed so many of their staff in such a contemptuous way, that I would never pay them and continue to bypass their paywall to get the limited content I want.
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 11-12-2017, 07:43 AM   #524
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The thing is, the Guardian is headed the same way (I don't know how they treat their staff), they've got the begging bowl out every day, but their content is increasingly worthless - driven in part by that lowest-common-denominator race to the bottom, driven in part (I suspect) by a sincerely held worldview they wish to push - socially liberal, economically neoliberal.

Ok, they've been fairly consistent in prodding at the ever-festering offshore detention scandal. I can't take that away from them, and it's not nothing. Maybe the garbage is financing this. I hope so.

Many occasional contributors who are actually of value, blog on their own account elsewhere as well.

So sure, guilty. Sue me. I don't have a brass razzoo to rub together. It's the same with music. If I wasn't getting it for free (youtube), I just wouldn't be getting it. Period. Wrong guy to ask. Realistically, if this were 1987, I'd be the guy reading The Age in the library.
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Old 11-12-2017, 07:33 PM   #525
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SOUND THE ONE NATION IN DISARRAY KLAXON!

Fraser Anning, the new One Nation senator for Queensland in the wake of Malcolm Roberts' removal, has... QUIT THE PARTY THE MORNING OF HIS SWEARING-IN.

He's going to sit as an independent until "something else comes along". You can't fucking make this up, my word.
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"Mediocrity is never so dangerous as when it is dressed up as sincerity." - Søren Kierkegaard

Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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