Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi Oi #7

[Kieran McConville]

At state level, yeah I'm not familiar with Victoria, but what about Queensland in, I'm going to say 1957? Didn't the Labor Split pretty much put Nicklin in power absent an election (although obviously he later won elections)? I should know the particulars but at this point, I feel I've forgotten more than most ever know.

 

[Axver]

Oh wait, we both are missing a big one in Queensland - 1996! Borbidge only got in because of a change of numbers at a by-election.

 

[Kieran McConville]

Heh, of course. Of course. Goss 'won' by the skin of his teeth, then lost on the floor.

 

[Axver]

61.8% yes.

What a relief that a majority of people in this country are not total shitheads.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

Eat shit Toney!

 

[Axver]

Petition to change Lyle Shelton's name to Irrelevant.

 

[DaveC]

nicely done, australia.

 

[Kieran McConville]

61.8% yes.

What a relief that a majority of people in this country are not total shitheads.

I agree it's a good (though not stunning) result, but the gratuitous rhetoric like that is precisely why this 'postal survey' should never have happened. But no, the parliament couldn't do their fucking job like they're supposed to, like they're elected to do. The Liberals had to drag us all through the mud and sow maximum division, and mission fucking accomplished on that score.

Oh and I see the yes/no tallies are even broken down by electorate. How helpful (though if we really want to play that game, which I do not, Queensland comes out looks fairly well)!

Let's see what if anything the coalition government legislates on the matter. I'm not holding my breath, although their days may be numbered in any case.

 

[Kieran McConville]

What other contentious issues can we put to a 'postal survey', complete with a never ending bandwagon of US-style get out the vote mania? I'm sure there must be plenty.

 

[Axver]

Oh god some of the direct democracy/citizen-initiated referendum types are definitely winding themselves up to tout this as the way to go in future. Go away.

And my condolences that your seat is one of the 17 in the country to vote majority no. What the fuck is up with those 12 western Sydney seats that voted no, my god.

 

[Kieran McConville]

Oh god some of the direct democracy/citizen-initiated referendum types are definitely winding themselves up to tout this as the way to go in future. Go away.

And my condolences that your seat is one of the 17 in the country to vote majority no. What the fuck is up with those 12 western Sydney seats that voted no, my god.

No condolences needed (though for what it's worth, 'yes' campaigners were out and about even here).

See, I don't think that kind of information should have been made public in the first place. It's the kind of 'data' that will be weaponised on social media and other places I have the sense to stay far, far away from. For a start, electorates are not units of governance, like states or shires or cities. So one electorate votes this way (majority) and the one next door votes the other way by whatever margin. They're all gonna live under the same laws whether they like it or not.

All grist for the mill.

 

[Axver]

Not sure why it shouldn't have been made public? Especially to make sure regressive MPs representing yes electorates are held accountable. Look at Tone, 75% yes in his electorate. Good luck justifying your no vote you absolute cunt.

 

[Kieran McConville]

Oh god some of the direct democracy/citizen-initiated referendum types are definitely winding themselves up to tout this as the way to go in future. Go away.

And there'd be plenty of scope for equal-opportunity angst. I guarantee that a national postal survey on

a. the death penalty
b. legal euthanasia

would go exactly the reverse of how progressives, and conservatives, respectively, would wish.

 

[Kieran McConville]

Not sure why it shouldn't have been made public? Especially to make sure regressive MPs representing yes electorates are held accountable. Look at Tone, 75% yes in his electorate. Good luck justifying your no vote you absolute cunt.

Sure, but he will justify it, and he'll probably win his set again. It doesn't make sense, but there you go.

 

[Axver]

And there'd be plenty of scope for equal-opportunity angst. I guarantee that a national postal survey on

a. the death penalty
b. legal euthanasia

would go exactly the reverse of how progressives, and conservatives, respectively, would wish.

You think a postal survey on the death penalty would support its return? Opinion polling consistently shows public hostility to the death penalty. And the opinion polls basically nailed the result of this one. Newspoll had the result at 63%, so 61.6% is within the margin of error.

 

[Kieran McConville]

You think a postal survey on the death penalty would support its return? Opinion polling consistently shows public hostility to the death penalty. And the opinion polls basically nailed the result of this one. Newspoll had the result at 63%, so 61.6% is within the margin of error.

Maybe I'm misled on the first one then. I didn't know public hostility to the death penalty was that high. Possibly it's grown in tandem with certain controversies over in Indonesia and other places (which of course have every right to enforce their laws as they see fit). It certainly didn't use to be the case.

 

[Axver]

I think the only way you can get a majority for the death penalty is to run a survey with a really, really leading question. Like "if somebody raped every woman you love, then brutally murdered every bloke you think is a cool guy, and he calls the fried thing 'potato scallop' not 'potato cake', would you support him receiving the death penalty?"

 

[Kieran McConville]

No doubt.

 

[monkeyskin]

And my condolences that your seat is one of the 17 in the country to vote majority no. What the fuck is up with those 12 western Sydney seats that voted no, my god.

Im in one of those 17 and it pisses me off so much right now.

Of the 12 in western Sydney, quite a few have significant Asian-Australian populations who were targeted hard during the campaign:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/asia...-samesex-marriage-debate-20170915-gyi87n.html

Some pretty vile propaganda flyers stuffed into my in-laws' letterbox seemed to have worked there unfortunately. Obviously this isn't all down to racial lines, but a strong sense of culture can lead to strong personal beliefs on a subject such as this.

All in all I hope Parliament finally does their fucking job in the coming weeks and puts this matter to rest once and for all. I love Australia and have fully embraced it as my home, but our government being so unbelievably backwards and mean spirited on this issue has made me extremely embarrassed to say so at times.

That, and Tony Abbott. And Manus Island. And the Australia Day furor.

...fuck.

 

[intedomine]

I must admit I was more disappointed than elated when the announcement was made. I was tipping 70+, but could only manage a measly 62% for a vote for common sense equality?

I was hoping for something far more emphatic.

I feel better now... I generally think marriage is a silly concept, but at least it looks certain that marriage equality is going to happen, despite it being a lower than desired result.

There are 5 million folk who don't like the idea of homosexuals having the same privileges as heterosexuals. That's troubling.

My electorate was one of the best in Australia thankfully, at 78%

 

[Axver]

Yeah I've seen a lot of people suggesting that the first-generation immigrant vote, fuelled by that sort of nasty propaganda, explains some of the western Sydney vote. And some of those electorates are Hillsong heartland too. (The no-voting Division of Bruce in southeast Melbourne is likewise home to the city's rather modest "Bible Belt".)

The worst part is we now have fuckheads - like Caleb Bond - using this to whip up more anti-Muslim sentiment by pointing out that some of the no-voting electorates have high Islamic populations. Yeah, sure, the other no-voting Victorian electorate, Calwell, has the third-highest Muslim population in Australia - but it also has the third-highest Catholic population! So fuck the fuck off, Caleb.

I really can't get over that Blaxland, Paul Keating's old stomping ground, could only muster 26% yes. That's absolutely insane, it's such an outlier.

 

[Axver]

I must admit I was more disappointed than elated when the announcement was made. I was tipping 70+, but could only manage a measly 62% for a vote for common sense equality?

I was hoping for something far more emphatic.

This is emphatic though. No election has ever been won by a margin this big in Australian history.

 

[monkeyskin]

This is emphatic though. No election has ever been won by a margin this big in Australian history.

This is true and worthy of celebration, moreso when the turnout was so high. But one would have hoped that unlike a vote based on political leadership of the country, a 'vote' for marriage equality that will positively affect a few and not at all affect the majority, the gap would have been greater than 6-4. What a message these nearly 5 million people have sent to their fellow citizens.

Also, Ax, no difference between a Brummie and a Coventry accent? We are done, good sir.

 

[Kieran McConville]

61% is pretty darn high actually. As for the outrage over the remainder, another reason this thing should never have been a goddamn popularity contest in the first place. But also, a reminder that it is unrealistic to expect 80-90% plus unanimity on any question. Simply isn't going to happen. Ever.

 

[Axver]

This is true and worthy of celebration, moreso when the turnout was so high. But one would have hoped that unlike a vote based on political leadership of the country, a 'vote' for marriage equality that will positively affect a few and not at all affect the majority, the gap would have been greater than 6-4. What a message these nearly 5 million people have sent to their fellow citizens.

I do wonder how generational it is. Anonymising the survey forms means we don't get that data. I suspect if you took younger voters, say everybody under 40 or 50, you would get a much stronger yes vote.

Also, Ax, no difference between a Brummie and a Coventry accent? We are done, good sir.

Haha they were literally just two cities I named at random. I notice a lot of different English accents, but rarely could I tell you where they're actually from. My reaction is "oh, he's got a bit of a different accent to the last Pom I spoke to", not "clearly from Coventry".

 

[Kieran McConville]

The reason I harp on about the postal survey and the electorate-by-electorate tallies and the whole unnecessary divisiveness of it all is this: given where opinion polls have been in recent years (and none of this would even be an issue absent Howard's bastardry back in 2004), a government that simply did its job and legislated for the matter without fuss and the hoopla of a national campaign, would likely have been met with a response like:

60ish% - broadly supportive, relieved and/or happy
20 or 25% - not-thrilled-but-whaddayagonnado, or 'shrug'
10 or 20% abject opposition

Instead we get this needless fear and loathing, for much the same legislative outcome ultimately. Cause I bet some proportion of that 38% no vote were 'no, since you asked me', rather than 'I'm gonna fight the poofs to my dying breath'. Or even as petty as 'no, because I just had a shit day'. Or 'no, because you're bugging me with shit I don't want to think about'. As for the hard core; well, they aren't an election winning coalition, and they probably knew it already, but definitely do now.

 

[monkeyskin]

Fair points Kieran, the whole process has been frustrating to say the least.

Meanwhile the shitty pro-discrimination bill has been pulled and debate on the remaining one starts tomorrow. With the wills of the electorate known I hope it doesn't take too long. But I am hopelessly naive.

 

[Kieran McConville]

I don't see much way out for the Turnbull government on this one. Either they honour the will of the public or they tear themselves apart and pay the price at the next election. Which could be soon in either case.

 

[Axver]

I'm concerned about what bullshit amendments are going to be thrown into the mix.

Like, fuck's sake, this isn't hard, just reverse Howard's scumbag edit to the Marriage Act in 2004. I hope that bald turdcunt at some point realises how much money and emotional energy that petty and pathetic amendment has cost this country over the past thirteen years.

 

[Kieran McConville]

Aren't they going to draft him, Lord Wellington style, to win Bennelong or something? He can enjoy a front row seat.

I jest of course. But it might come to that. The tory talent pool is pretty fucking depleted these days.