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Old 03-17-2010, 08:05 PM   #16
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thanks i'm going to refine that one a bit and try and get it published in the annual uni book this year.
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Old 03-20-2010, 12:10 PM   #17
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I ended up studying at Trinity College in Dublin in 2002 under two publishes writers. Since then I've turned my original first novel in to a set of 3, and now I'm working on another novel that's totally different from the other three.

I'm diggin this thread and I'll finish reading through it later, but I just wanted to add in here that I'm a writer too.
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Old 03-20-2010, 12:15 PM   #18
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I took a creative writing class in college and on Day 1 the teacher said she didn't like Sci Fi or Fantasy and wouldn't accept submissions in either genre. I remember these two geeks were utterly flabbergasted and contemplated going to the Dept Chair to complain.

I recently found one of the things I wrote and it was the worst god awful peice of shit ever written. Ironically, the teacher liked it. Needless to say, it was one of the worst classes I ever took. Good thing I wasn't a sci-fi / fantasy guy then.


thats terrible!!!! what a horrible creative writing teacher, someone who definetly never should have been!!!!

How can you rule out creative-ism in a CREATIVE writing course?! stupid teacher
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Old 03-20-2010, 04:23 PM   #19
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I took a creative writing class in college and on Day 1 the teacher said she didn't like Sci Fi or Fantasy and wouldn't accept submissions in either genre. I remember these two geeks were utterly flabbergasted and contemplated going to the Dept Chair to complain.

I recently found one of the things I wrote and it was the worst god awful peice of shit ever written. Ironically, the teacher liked it. Needless to say, it was one of the worst classes I ever took. Good thing I wasn't a sci-fi / fantasy guy then.
You went to a shit University.
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Old 03-21-2010, 12:02 AM   #20
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I mostly dabble in music, literary, and philosophical criticism, with the music-oriented stuff (unsurprisingly) being my strongest. Between school and published reviews, I've done work on The Flaming Lips, Andrew Bird, U2, K'naan, 50 Cent, and Okkervil River, among others and have plans to do a couple pieces on dead prez and Tupac in the next several months.

But, it's always been a wish of mine since I was a kid to be a poet, so the past couple weeks I've started working on that, committing to getting better at it, and just writing little bits and pieces constantly. So far, I've figured out that I'm not much a fan of poetic conventions. And if nothing else, hopefully this will all help in adding more linguistic musicality to my other writing, which is something I've been aiming toward doing for awhile now.
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Old 03-21-2010, 12:09 AM   #21
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This is a cool thread, or at least a good concept for one. I'm a journalism major, so my work is more analytical than perhaps Danny wanted this thread to encompass. I think I'll be able to join in throughout the remainder of this semester though, as I have been in a creative writing class for a few months now; it gets the gears moving, whether I like it or not. You'll all be privy to the whiny inner machinations of my mind.

Come to think of it, maybe this was a terrible idea for a thread.
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Old 03-21-2010, 12:11 AM   #22
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In February of 2009 I made the author list for the print publication of Six Sentences Volume Two

"The second print anthology of the New York Times recommended writing site "Six Sentences," featuring an introduction by Neil LaBute, a guest appearance by Rick Moody, and hundreds of original sixes by a talented lineup of international authors."

Writers Digest recently added Six Sentences to their annual 101 Best Websites for Writers list.
I recently made the author list for 6S Volume Three.

Publication is scheduled for April, 2010.
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Old 03-21-2010, 07:21 AM   #23
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any whiny inner machinations are most welcome, i'd love to see anyone posting anything they've done in here, so please do!

i'm a journalism major as well, travis, but i LOVE just writing.
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Old 03-21-2010, 10:41 AM   #24
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I'm a journalism major, so my work is more analytical than perhaps Danny wanted this thread to encompass.
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i'm a journalism major as well, travis, but i LOVE just writing.
I might be biased since I mostly do analytical stuff too, but I think we ought to give ourselves a bit of credit for being good at that. As often as I'd rather be a creative writer, being able to deconstruct a work, then reconstruct an argument about it in a grammatically and aesthetically pleasing way is a talent. One that many people don't have or don't choose to cultivate. Personally, I take serious care in word choice, to a painstaking and honestly draining degree (oh, but I still love it so!), when writing in order to convey precisely what I mean, which is something that people who don't consider themselves "writers" probably wouldn't take the time to do. I imagine it's the same with creative writers as well. All that being said, I'd still rather be a poet, if I had the choice. But, when it comes down to it, writing is writing, no matter what the final expressed form.

If people really want, I'm definitely down to put up some of my critical work. Maybe some creative work if I ever get to that point (ha, we'll see if that happens).
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Old 03-21-2010, 01:33 PM   #25
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I agree with the above but I would trade every lauded paper, report, critical essay, pitch, proposal or presentation I ever authored academically and professionally for the ability to take what I can conjure up in my imagination and make it appear in written form in a pleasing and skillful way.

That's not meant to demean my own or anyone else's accomplishments in areas of writing that are not creative, not one iota. It's more of a personal lament. Though, as Clownshop Magee Oneblood says, it does take some modicum of skill to write critically in an effective manner (because, as you need not be told, not every self-styled journalist is actually good at it. Sometimes you can take classes until you are blue in the face; some people "got it" and some don't) and it still provides one with a medium to employ the english language in ways one finds pleasing. But, for me, 95% of the writers I admire write creatively, and so that must be where my heart truly lies.

I will say, though, that of all the things I've ever written or tried to write, the things that always gave me the greatest sense of satisfaction were actually term papers. This is pre-internet (fossil alert, whatever, fuck you), so I had no choice really but to hole up in a library, but we can all relate to having to track down information on a topic from various and perhaps varied sources, picking out that which is most pertinent and useful, culling that information and presenting it within a structure that is hopefully both informative and entertaining simultaneously. I'd always do it last-second and would always grin at how it would all just seem to come together. I guess if I couldn't write a gripping short story at age 17, this was the next best thing.

Lastly, I have oodles of short stories and poems of mine saved up from years past. I'll post exactly none of it, but it is astounding just how fucking horrible most of it is.
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Old 03-21-2010, 08:19 PM   #26
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I think academic writing deserves just as much respect as creative writing. I'd argue that a novel is just as different from poetry as poetry is from academic writing. All three use very different writing skills. For example, my main writing talent is in poetry but I couldn't write a novel because I don't have the skills of not becoming bored, plot development or keeping someone hooked for 150+ pages. No writer is talented in every form of writing because no writer has all of the needed skills. For an academic writer not having the skills to succeed in creative writing doesn't make you any less of a writer.

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So far, I've figured out that I'm not much a fan of poetic conventions.
Honestly, the first thing I would tell anyone who wanted to write poetry is to ignore the conventions and form their own style. Poetry is the most flexible form of writing and should never be restricted because of that. I had a poem published in a literary magazine that had no rhyme scheme, no organized structure and broke many rules of English language and grammar. You should experiment when you write creatively and that begins by throwing out the rules.
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Old 03-22-2010, 02:46 AM   #27
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I will say, though, that of all the things I've ever written or tried to write, the things that always gave me the greatest sense of satisfaction were actually term papers. This is pre-internet (fossil alert, whatever, fuck you), so I had no choice really but to hole up in a library, but we can all relate to having to track down information on a topic from various and perhaps varied sources, picking out that which is most pertinent and useful, culling that information and presenting it within a structure that is hopefully both informative and entertaining simultaneously. I'd always do it last-second and would always grin at how it would all just seem to come together. I guess if I couldn't write a gripping short story at age 17, this was the next best thing.
i agree with this. English was really my own good subject at school and i thrived on writing in English and Lit in the last few years. I ended up topping my school in English in Year 12 and i loved writing essays and all the stuff that came with it.

i'd love to see some of your work Cassie, especially since i remain eternally jealous of the course you're doing.
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:58 AM   #28
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I agree with the above but I would trade every lauded paper, report, critical essay, pitch, proposal or presentation I ever authored academically and professionally for the ability to take what I can conjure up in my imagination and make it appear in written form in a pleasing and skillful way.

That's not meant to demean my own or anyone else's accomplishments in areas of writing that are not creative, not one iota. It's more of a personal lament. Though, as Clownshop Magee Oneblood says, it does take some modicum of skill to write critically in an effective manner (because, as you need not be told, not every self-styled journalist is actually good at it. Sometimes you can take classes until you are blue in the face; some people "got it" and some don't) and it still provides one with a medium to employ the english language in ways one finds pleasing. But, for me, 95% of the writers I admire write creatively, and so that must be where my heart truly lies.
I completely agree, which is why I said (twice now, I think) that if I had the choice, I'd rather be a poet than any other type of writer, fool.


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Lastly, I have oodles of short stories and poems of mine saved up from years past. I'll post exactly none of it, but it is astounding just how fucking horrible most of it is.
Tease. We could all use a good laugh at your expense.

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Honestly, the first thing I would tell anyone who wanted to write poetry is to ignore the conventions and form their own style. Poetry is the most flexible form of writing and should never be restricted because of that. I had a poem published in a literary magazine that had no rhyme scheme, no organized structure and broke many rules of English language and grammar. You should experiment when you write creatively and that begins by throwing out the rules.
Thanks for the tip, Justin. I'll definitely keep at it...with no conventions.

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i loved writing essays and all the stuff that came with it.

i'd love to see some of your work Cassie, especially since i remain eternally jealous of the course you're doing.
Yes. I always hear people complaining about essay writing, and I just don't get it because that's, without a doubt, my favorite aspect of school. Lectures, meh. Tests, hate 'em. Discussions can be cool, depending on the class and classmates. But essays? Absolutely fucking love writing them.

Ha, thanks Danny. I'm still not quite sure how I managed to convince a committee that this was a valid academic venture.

I'll put up portions of a few papers, with links to them in their entirety (if anybody really wants to read them fully, which I don't expect at all, haha).

What’s Hardcore?: Notions of Hardness and Authenticity in Rap Music
http://www.send space.com/file/uidu79

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Reality rap, and more specifically its subgenre, gangsta rap, has become the most dominant genre in rap music over the last twenty or so years, and though much attention is focused on the lyrical content of songs located in these genres, the music behind the lyrics is also important in conveying a hard sound. Adam Krims has described reality rap as having several features: “a (pitch-wise) unfocused but dominating bass,” “dissonant pitch combinations,” and “samples that foreground their own deformation and/or degrees of reproduction.” Further, the ideal of this sound is embodied in the “hip-hop sublime,” which is a concept that could serve to partially explain the appeal of gangsta rap to the masses, particularly if calling back Edmund Burke’s description of the sublime, which points out the simultaneous reaction of pleasure and fear that occurs. The hip-hop sublime is a direct result of “dense combinations of musical layers” that do reinforce the ever pervasive and present four-beat meter, but all of these layers are so dissonant that they often do not sound in tune according to Western conventions. As the layers build and pile up, they defy “aural representability for Western musical listeners.” “Don’t Push Me” by 50 Cent, from his 2003 album Get Rich or Die Tryin’, and “What’s Hardcore?” by Somali-Canadian rapper K’naan, from his 2005 album The Dusty Foot Philosopher, epitomize the hip-hop sublime, both using virtually all of its aforementioned features.

...

K’naan sets up a dialectic between himself and the likes of 50 Cent to establish his authenticity; he is the anti-gangsta, always defining himself against that image. 50 Cent, on the other hand, positions himself within a long standing tradition of America’s obsession with the outlaw--with Stagger Lee, specifically, being the most obvious outlaw paralleling 50 Cent--and in doing so lends himself a higher possibility of gaining commercial success. But, why do we need these outlaws, and why do we see in them the ultimate expression of authenticity?

Outlaws and gangstas take life and turn it into image and myth, removing it from the harsh truths and gruesome results of real crime. There is the potential for danger, but it is all implied; gangsta rappers are threatening, but still remote enough for us. In other words, “the menace of the criminal, removed from any association with real life and real victims, became a visual vocabulary of stance, swagger, and gesture.”
Get Big, Little Kid: Okkervil River’s Black Sheep Boy and the fetishizing of childhood in indie rock
http://www.send space.com/file/oc1fz2 (This one's 19 pages long...so, read at your own risk.)

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Since its inception in the 1980s, indie or alternative rock, that ever elusive term that is generally used to describe the means of production and distribution of independent music—therefore, an album released on an independent label that falls under the genre of rock would be considered indie rock—but can also be evoked in terms of a genre or sound unto itself, has been overtly obsessed with childhood, resulting in a fetishizing of childhood that manifests itself in both the sound of the music and the lyrical content. This fetishizing occurs within the larger context of our culture as well; Cindy Katz, studying childhood as spectacle, notes that contemporary social life in the USA is riddled with ontological insecurity provoked initially by the threats to its presumptions of hegemony associated with the social movements of the 1960s and 1970s, the effects of decolonization, the oil shocks of 1973, and the military defeat in Vietnam, among other things. Along with the loss of bravado […] came the loss of innocence associated with the assassinations of the 1960s and Watergate, and this ontological insecurity “is associated with anxiety about the future, which is in part channeled in and through concerns about childhood and the nature of childhood.” The majority of indie rock dealing with childhood focuses on a nostalgic view of that life stage, one that is essentialized into a time of perpetual happiness and innocence; Okkervil River opt for turning this ideal upon its head, giving us the dub version of childhood—dark, angry, violent, and confused—throughout their 2005 album, Black Sheep Boy.

...

I would suggest that the strings, indeed, even hold more weight than simply highlighting the Black Sheep Boy’s final transformation into a man; the string section in “So Come Back, I Am Waiting” is the voice of the Black Sheep Boy, inserted into the song in dissonant, visceral fashion. The strings first come in after the Black Sheep Boy finishes his sentences: “There’s plenty of ways to know you’re not dying, all right. Hell, there’s plenty of light still left in your eyes.” As the track progresses, the strings only occur when the Black Sheep Boy is explicitly speaking (before and after “Every language of king is concerned,” and after “some liar I loved to control”), foreshadowing each consequential lyrical event—from the Black Sheep Boy growing horns to using a more advanced nomenclature when describing himself to the eventual conflation of the narrator and the Black Sheep Boy. But the most striking utilization of the crucial strings section occurs in that moment after the lyric “some liar I loved to control,” where a black diapason is finally allowed to stretch and swell, birthing the Black Sheep Man, but only after hitting an absolutely torturous rock bottom first. As influential psychoanalyst and philosopher Frantz Fanon described this wretched area and its potential: “There is a zone of nonbeing, an extraordinarily sterile and arid region, an utterly naked declivity where an authentic upheaval can be born.” Here, the strings are the embodiment of this zone of nonbeing, where this ambiguously beastly, yet humane figure falls further into the depths of his abyss, until finally ascending out through an upheaval of self, leaving a rebuilt, matured being in their wake.
Becoming an Anonanimal: Animistic Ties in the Language of Coetzee, Kafka, and Andrew Bird
http://www.send space.com/file/o0846i

Quote:
In other words, the very nature of language as an interpretive, signifying frame results in the production of multiple meanings, and it is through this multiplicity of meaning that reality—an ever-moving, changing, morphing perception—is shaped by us, or more specifically, by the discourses we compose. Language’s plurality of meaning also results in an ambivalent relationship to discourse, as Roland Barthes describes it: “To try to write love is to confront the muck of language: that region of hysteria where language is both too much and too little, excessive (by the limitless expansion of the ego, by emotive submersion) and impoverished (by the codes on which love diminishes and levels it).” (Barthes, 99) Language is thus excessive, in the sense of possibility for embodiment (or emotive submersion) that lies within it, as well as impoverished because of the linguistic and syntactical codes that bind it, codes which do not apply to emotion as they do to reason or discourse. This idea is one that provides the crux of Coetzee’s argument throughout The Lives of Animals: the hope of changing humanity’s consciousness in regard to our treatment of animals lies in language, which is lavish and unconstrained—specifically as a poetic art form (either in poetry or in literature at large), the form that is “organized violence committed on ordinary speech” (Eagleton, 2)—and not in reason. Language, as one form that specifically defines us as rational, reasonable, analytical, and logical human beings and allows us to attempt to articulate our thoughts, thus both separates us from other non-rational, nonlinguistic beings, as well as holding the potential for embodiment of other beings; it is this special role in society which language holds as excessive, yet impoverished and schismatic, yet promising, that I wish to explore through Kafka’s “A Report to an Academy,” Coetzee’s The Lives of Animals, and a song by Andrew Bird, “Anonanimal,” all of which showcase language and its multiplicity of meanings in various forms.

For some, the boundary between animal and human is drawn along linguistic and reasoning lines; Descartes said, “I think; therefore I am,” and animals do not think (at least not to our standards, as far as we know); therefore they are not.

...

Andrew Bird blurs the lines between human beings and animal beings in “Anonanimal.” Bird’s lyrical techniques of choice—which lead to the obscuring of boundaries between humans and animals—are homophones and alliteration, both of which factor in strongly to precisely how “breath and sense” are combined in the lyrics to “Anonanimal.”

Homophones and their resulting homophonous sounds when said (or sung) aloud serve to break down barriers of meaning (because of the multiplicity of meaning that results), which, when looked at within the song’s storyline, shatters borders between humans and animals as well. Throughout the entirety of “Anonanimal,” Bird uses eight different homophonous sounds, sometimes combining two or three words to fit the phonic pattern. Because so many of the words used in its lyrics are bound up in this homophonous cocoon, the actual lyrical content of “Anonanimal” is difficult to decipher without having liner notes in front of you, again blurring linguistic boundaries through wordplay, or “organized violence committed on ordinary speech” (Eagleton, 2). Alliteration also softens these lines by helping the lyrics slip off of one’s tongue smoothly and with ease (due to continuous similar sounds in the words).
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:32 PM   #29
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I completely agree, which is why I said (twice now, I think) that if I had the choice, I'd rather be a poet than any other type of writer, fool.




Tease. We could all use a good laugh at your expense.
To your first point, clown, who cares how many times you said it? I'm talking now, about me. So step aside, or, better still, step off.

As for the second point, I give everyone on this site ample opportunity to laugh at me, no need to pile on.

FYI - I continue to enjoy your writing, thanks for posting.
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:44 AM   #30
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Well, It's official... I'm a Writer

Well, now I can die in peace!

I've been trying for almost 11 years but I couldn't get any publisher so I had to try and publish it myself. Is there any writers in here?

you can find my book on Self Publishing - Lulu.com but it is written in Portuguese so 90% of you can't understand what I wrote.

Anyway, i'm not trying to sell anything lol. I just needed to take this out of my chest and share it with you.

Interference rulz
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