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Old 09-24-2016, 07:32 AM   #646
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Jezza has won the Labour leadership election with 62% of the vote, and even though the party barred something like 150,000+ members from voting.
How do you like them apples? Time for Nick Cohen to hit the presses I think.

Also, who knew Britain had 150,000 Trotyskists?
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Old 09-24-2016, 07:36 AM   #647
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The registration requirements change from state to state so it does make some aspects of analysis more difficult. And Sanders did do better in open primaries than closed ones.

But we do know that party preselection processes skew towards extremes. When you are only competing among ideologically likeminded people, how do you prove yourself? You ramp up your ideological purity. People inclined to show up to preselection processes of any kind are true believers. I think it's telling that, despite the alleged rampant popularity of Sanders, there were still millions more "true believers" turning out for Clinton.

(But I do take your point that there wasn't meant to be any challenge at all.)
Well if ever there was a year for ideological purity (not even sure what that means in the case of a relatively moderate social democrat) - or just cutting the crap, however you wish to term it - this was it.

Gee if I'm not careful, I'll get a reputation as 'that guy' right here in the Straya thread. But I'll note that Hillary Clinton had to change her rhetoric very markedly in the process of seeing off that primary challenge. Going in, she was 'you'll get more of the same so suck on it'. The tune has since changed, somewhat.
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Old 09-24-2016, 08:27 AM   #648
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The trouble is you're (not you personally, but people generally) dealing with two different right wings. There's the right wing drift of privatise everything and let the devil take the hindmost, and then there's the sort of Alan Jones / Pauline Hanson right wing. It was a good trick for a while keeping these horses tethered, as with the GOP in America. But it's come badly unstuck.

All that said, people on this forum were talking about civil war when the first Abbott government won office. One has to get a grip sometimes. Real ugly comes by degrees and so I'd never be that guy to claim 'it can never happen here' (we had the world's largest private fascist army in Sydney in the thirties), but even so. This country is still fat and happy enough, in its way, that I fear less the jackboot than I do the simple complacency.
It's safe to say neoliberalism has suffered some serious wounds, and that its former straight white male supremacist allies are turning on it now that they realise free trade and privatisation aren't delivering them all of the dollars. There's a particular strain of exclusionary Anglo-populism that is going to be a significant part of politics for some time to come, and a neoliberal dream increasingly sustained by its least competent proponents, but maybe they will start fighting each other. Hey, we haven't had a good party realignment for a while!

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Well if ever there was a year for ideological purity (not even sure what that means in the case of a relatively moderate social democrat) - or just cutting the crap, however you wish to term it - this was it.

Gee if I'm not careful, I'll get a reputation as 'that guy' right here in the Straya thread. But I'll note that Hillary Clinton had to change her rhetoric very markedly in the process of seeing off that primary challenge. Going in, she was 'you'll get more of the same so suck on it'. The tune has since changed, somewhat.
Nah, I get what you mean - my main point is simply that I think the hype about Clinton as unlikeable is just that, hype. Lots of confirmation bias going on too.
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Old 09-24-2016, 08:59 AM   #649
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Yes of course it's hype (getting to the last point first here, and all)... plenty of confirmation bias. I really don't care to buy into some of the murkier depths of the election-year barrel, that's for the Americans. Part of the problem is that these Americans keep electing a monarch. It's more or less baked into the system. Good Queen Bess, bad King Richard, and round and round we go.
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Old 09-24-2016, 09:02 AM   #650
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Suffice it to say I think our parliamentary forms produce a better form of government than the American system. Separation of powers sounds lovely on paper but removing the executive from the legislature just leads to logjams.

(As it essentially did in New Zealand's provinces, which everybody would know if they'd buy my book. /lazy-self-promotion)
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Old 09-24-2016, 09:05 AM   #651
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It's safe to say neoliberalism has suffered some serious wounds, and that its former straight white male supremacist allies are turning on it now that they realise free trade and privatisation aren't delivering them all of the dollars. There's a particular strain of exclusionary Anglo-populism that is going to be a significant part of politics for some time to come, and a neoliberal dream increasingly sustained by its least competent proponents, but maybe they will start fighting each other. Hey, we haven't had a good party realignment for a while!

Maybe they will start fighting each other, but that would take some serious soul searching. I guess this is the part where we say how it would be a major opportunity for a left with the heft to rise to the occasion. Oh it could happen, I suppose, there are rumblings all over the world, but nothing to speak of yet. Here in Australia, I hate to say it, but I'm starting to think it will be from within Labor, if at all. The Greens have a foot in several camps.

The neoliberal dream is right now sustained by habit and little more. Its greatest proponents are barely used car salesmen. But zombie ideas die hard.

Actually I'll go a step further; the first convincing politician who manages to cut the implied knot between free markets and free societies, wins.
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Old 09-24-2016, 09:07 AM   #652
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Suffice it to say I think our parliamentary forms produce a better form of government than the American system. Separation of powers sounds lovely on paper but removing the executive from the legislature just leads to logjams.

(As it essentially did in New Zealand's provinces, which everybody would know if they'd buy my book. /lazy-self-promotion)
Yes. As I used to jest, a decade ago, trying to explain the Australian system: just image Tom DeLay runs the country, and the president opens flower shows.

I'll buy your book if it's free.
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Old 09-24-2016, 09:30 AM   #653
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M
Actually I'll go a step further; the first convincing politician who manages to cut the implied knot between free markets and free societies, wins.
Give me a few years.
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Old 09-24-2016, 10:37 AM   #654
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NO! Do it NOW!!!

I'm sorry, I'm a little tipsy.
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Old 09-24-2016, 10:42 AM   #655
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The Liberals will holler at me and accuse me of being a Putin agent.
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Old 09-24-2016, 10:55 AM   #656
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I always assumed you were a Putin agent.
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Old 09-24-2016, 11:51 AM   #657
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Old 09-25-2016, 08:52 AM   #658
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There are three pieces right now on the Guardian homepage about Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie divorcing. Could Brangelina be the new Beyonce/GhostBusters/Insert Thing Here?
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Old 09-25-2016, 05:24 PM   #659
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And yet it's somehow better than The Age trying to convince me of some dieting trick or whatever clickbait this once grand masthead is currently running.

Seriously, there's little more depressing than checking The Age's website today and comparing it with an edition from thirty years ago.
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"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 09-25-2016, 11:17 PM   #660
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I agree with you. It is better than both the Age and Sydney Morning Herald. But it's fairly clear to me that it is consciously heading in that direction.
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