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Old 06-24-2016, 11:06 AM   #241
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Haha, my girlfriend (who is living in France) was like "I need help to vote" so I got drunk and spent like two hours writing her up a super basic document (I didn't realise how fucking many candidates there are for the Victorian senate) and she's pretty much gonna do the same as me, vote 1-6 above the line for all the left parties not called Socialist Alternative.

She lives in Goldstein which is an incredibly safe Liberal seat, and with the new Liberal candidate being gay will appeal to the rich but socially progressive young voters so I just said vote 1-2 Greens/Sex.
They don't participate in elections I don't think.
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Old 06-24-2016, 08:43 PM   #242
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I'm guessing he meant Socialist Alliance.

Looking forward to reviewing them and the SEP soon. Wrote my One Nation review yesterday and felt uncomfortable even being on their website.
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Old 06-24-2016, 09:24 PM   #243
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I'm guessing he meant Socialist Alliance.
That was my thought too, in that case it'd be a pretty irrational hatred.
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Old 06-24-2016, 09:32 PM   #244
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Yeah, for all my criticisms of today's socialism and unbearable campus activists, I've always put the socialist parties high in my preferences, definitely above the ALP or the Sex Party.

Hell, this time around I'm sufficiently concerned about the failure of parties such as Sex to articulate a good economic position that I may put them below the ALP, rather than using the ALP as my cutoff of parties I like or don't mind too much.

But then I remember how angry I am about the ALP being complicit in offshore detention, data retention, not passing marriage equality while they had the chance, etc., etc. So the exact order of my preferences remains uncertain only a week out (except, of course, Greens 1).
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Old 06-24-2016, 09:49 PM   #245
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There has to be a price in it for Labor, a price to pay for their bipartisanship on the offshore gulag (which it is). That is pretty much the only reason the Greens are potentially getting a no.1 from me; aside from obviously agreeing with their environmental raison d'etre, I am lukewarm about them. For various historical and cultural reasons they are presently serving as a de facto home for unimpressed social democrats, but that does not make them a social democratic party.

I mostly wish Labor were better. On some fronts they are quietly getting better; you will notice that the hard-edged market rhetoric has mostly departed with the true believers like Latham and Emerson, even if a whiff of Third Way politics still hangs around the room. On other fronts, less so.

And it's not even much of a price, considering that Labor obviously will benefit in the first instance from the resulting preferences.
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Old 06-24-2016, 09:54 PM   #246
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Also I apologise for calling our leaders fucking cocksuckers last night while drunk-posting. The expletive was unnecessary.
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Old 06-24-2016, 10:16 PM   #247
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For various historical and cultural reasons they are presently serving as a de facto home for unimpressed social democrats, but that does not make them a social democratic party.
Co-signed.

Though I think the Greens have always been more of a natural home for me than the ALP. I'm strongly supportive of the environmental component, and I've never shared the idolisation of the working class that permeates much Labourism (and socialism).
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Old 06-24-2016, 10:26 PM   #248
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I suppose my perspective on the Labor or social-democratic tradition is that;

1. yeah, 'working class rhetoric' can get a bit on the nose, but whether they accept it or not, everyone who relies primarily on their wage or salary (or equivalent) to live is the working class. I suppose the picture can get a little blurry with certain aspects of the so called 'professional classes', but if you're an untenured academic, for instance, just for instance, then you're working class. It is the right's great devilish genius to convince people otherwise, pit them against each other.

2. It implicitly excludes those shut out of work altogether (whose ranks will swell tenfold in coming decades, you read it here first), although at least the centre-left pays some heed to the importance of a social safety net.
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Old 06-25-2016, 10:00 AM   #249
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https://www.theguardian.com/australi...ists-and-trots

Labor seem to be taking a liking to frothing at the mouth and yelling 'Trots!1!1!' at the Greens as of late.
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Old 06-25-2016, 10:06 AM   #250
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I've lost a fair amount of respect for Keating with this rant. OK we all know he's an old school Labour warrior, but there's a difference between coming in to bat for your team and being an old man yelling at a cloud. In this case Keating is the latter.
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Old 06-25-2016, 10:18 AM   #251
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I'd imagine part of him still wants to be in parliament throwing barbs at his opposition, but here it just sounds like the Labor leadership have asked him to be an attack dog for them momentarily.
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Old 06-25-2016, 07:45 PM   #252
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Well in amongst the bits y'all didn't like I see further rhetorical proof that Labor has indeed moved on somewhat from the 'Hawke/Keating Legacy', including apparently Keating himself. The Third Way is dead.
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Old 06-25-2016, 07:45 PM   #253
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But yeah, I'd say Keating was mostly doing a solid for Albo, he is old school Labor after all.
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Old 06-25-2016, 07:52 PM   #254
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Keating is not the only "legend" wheeled in when the big parties get anxious about the Greens. Costello just mailed everyone here in Higgins to convince us that O'Dwyer is doing such a fabulous job and to scaremonger everyone against the emerging green threat. Local charities have also been mailing us to defend O'Dwyer as an invaluable asset to our community. It's fascinating here at the moment. The Green presence is very strong.


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Old 06-25-2016, 07:55 PM   #255
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O'Dwyer must be in deep trouble for them to wheel in The Man Who Would Be King. What's Howard been up to this campaign?
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