Youth Model Shotguns - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-24-2009, 10:55 AM   #1
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,984
Local Time: 10:34 PM
Youth Model Shotguns

A Christmas present turned deadly...I had no idea that youth model shotguns even existed.

abcnews.com
Boy, 11, Allegedly Used 'Youth Gun' in Killing
Shotgun Designed for Kids Reportedly Used in Shooting Death of 26-Year-Old
By SCOTT MICHELS

Feb. 24, 2009—

An 11-year-old Pennsylvania boy accused of killing his father's pregnant girlfriend last week reportedly used his own youth model shotgun, a smaller-sized gun designed specifically for children.

Jordan Brown has been charged as an adult with two counts of criminal homicide in the deaths of 26-year-old Kenzie Marie Houk and her unborn child. Houk was eight months pregnant with Brown's father's child, and also had two daughters, 7 and 4, who lived with her and the Browns.

Police say Brown went downstairs from his bedroom with the gun hidden in a blanket, shot Houk in the head while she lay in bed, then took the bus to school. Brown is being held in the Lawrence County jail, though he is segregated from the adult prisoners. He has not entered a formal plea.

"It's tragic because a woman lost her life. The baby lost her life and you have an 11-year-old that's well on track to spending the rest of his life in jail," said Lawrence County District Attorney John Bongivengo.

Brown got the youth-sized shotgun as a Christmas present, and used it to win a turkey shoot on Valentine's Day, police said.

The 20-gauge shotgun was a gift from the boy's father, Chris Brown, according to Bongivengo. Brown was training his son to be a hunter, the New York Daily News reported. Houk had also encouraged Brown to buy the boy his own gun, according to the Daily News.

Youth model guns are generally shorter and lighter than regular rifles or shotguns and have lighter recoil, making them easier for children to use. Dozens of gun manufacturers offer both rifles and shotguns aimed at the youth market.

Gun Control Activist 'Outraged' by Youth Model Guns

Though not uncommon, the guns have been the target of criticism from some gun control activists, who say that children may not understand the danger of such weapons.

"To specifically market a gun designed for a kid is outrageous," said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, a gun control group. "To have a gun specially designed for junior, we're talking about a lethal weapon here, you're not talking about a toy anymore."

Pennsylvania State Trooper Ronald Kesten said police don't encounter the smaller guns very frequently and said they have not been a problem.

Bongivengo also said it was not uncommon for boys Brown's age to have their own shotgun, though he said the gun should have been locked up and inaccessible.

The gun was kept in a place to which the boy had full access, according to authorities.

Gun Safety Instructor: Nothing Wrong With Youth Model Guns

Graham Luck, who teaches a youth firearms safety course in Minnesota, said youth guns can be safer than regular guns, which can be too heavy for some smaller children. "The heavy guns can get away from them," he said.

"There's nothing wrong with firearms that fit young people," he added. "Kids need to be familiar with any kind of firearms. If he finds a gun in the house, it doesn't matter what kind it is."

Luck said children under 14 should not have access to the guns without parental permission and supervision.

The boy's attorney, Dennis Elisco, said he plans to ask the court to transfer the case to juvenile court and to transfer Brown to a juvenile facility, according to the AP.

"Jordan's holding up, he's a tough little kid, he's holding up well," Elisco told "Good Morning America."

Bongivengo said he was unable to file the homicide charges against the boy in juvenile court and had not decided whether he would oppose a motion to transfer the case to juvenile court.

"On the nature of the crime itself, I would say I would be opposed. But I'm not going to take a hard line stance," he said. "I want to gather all the information possible and make the best possible decision. I'm not out to persecute him."

Houk's family and friends said Houk had had problems with the boy in the past. Prosecutors say Jordan had been the center of attention in his father's life until Houk moved in.

Family members told "Good Morning America" that Jordan had threatened to "pop" Houk and her daughters in the past.

"There was an issue with jealousy. He told my son stuff," Houk's brother-in-law, Jason Kraner, told the Associated Press. "He actually told my son that he wanted to do that to her."

Houk's 7-year-old daughter is now a key witness in the case. Prosecutors say the girl says Jordan come downstairs early Friday morning holding two guns.

When she asked what he was doing, Jordan allegedly ran back upstairs, then returned with a shotgun under a blanket, according to prosecutors. State police found Houk's body in bed after her 4-year-old daughter told tree cutters on the property that she thought her mother was dead.

"The operating theory is that he covered the gun with the blanket to hide it when he came downstairs" from his bedroom to shoot Houk, who was in a first-floor bedroom, Bongivengo said. "It wasn't used to muffle (the shot) or anything, the blanket wasn't thick enough for that."

Deborah Houk, Kenzie's mother, said, "I lost my grandson and my daughter and my two little babies lost their mother. Nothing could ever be so horrible."
__________________

__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 11:53 AM   #2
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,685
Local Time: 09:34 PM
I don't have a problem with youth model hunting rifles or shotguns per se, but I think 11 years old is a little young, and under no circumstance should the child have free access to the guns in the house.

Poor parenting.
__________________

__________________
BVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 12:00 PM   #3
War Child
 
ShipOfFools's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 814
Local Time: 11:34 PM
What kind of parent would give a shotgun to an 11 year old? Even one that showed responsibility when it came to guns?

The father should be brought up on charges, too. What a sad, sad situation.
__________________
ShipOfFools is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 12:25 PM   #4
New Yorker
 
MooMoo!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: MUTANT SPIDER THING. D=<
Posts: 3,090
Local Time: 04:34 AM
What a tragic situation. Horrible that the 4 year old seemed to be the one to find her too.
__________________
MooMoo! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 12:55 PM   #5
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 04:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShipOfFools View Post
What kind of parent would give a shotgun to an 11 year old?
Lots of parents do...in many areas of the country, particularly rural areas, it's common for kids to start learning to hunt around 8 or 9, and to have their first hunting gun by 11 if not before. Where I grew up that was quite typical. And a 20-gauge shotgun is a pretty common first gun; they're mostly for shooting game birds. Still, like BVS said, no gun should ever be stored where a child has free access to it; that's putting far too much faith in their judgment, no matter how great they do on supervised hunting excursions or whatever.

But assuming the charges against Jordan Brown hold up, I do wonder if he might be the kind of severely disturbed child who'd have found a means to kill his future stepmother one way or the other. Nothing in the version of events proposed by the police suggests that this was some tragically impulsive act by a momentarily agitated child who didn't understand that guns kill.

I was startled, though, to read that Pennsylvania law actually requires him to be charged as an adult; here he'd have to be 16 for that.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 01:47 PM   #6
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 07:34 PM
Guns don't kill people.

People kill people.



Children are people, too.
__________________
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 03:11 PM   #7
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,557
Local Time: 10:34 PM
My dad took an 11 year old boy hunting, with guns. The kid actually shot a buck too! But the difference is that this was hunting, he had training, he had adults present, and the 11 year old was not responsible for the gun (ie, it's not sitting in his bedroom at home, the adults make sure it is unloaded and locked up!).

There's a difference between an 11 year old using a gun and leaving an 11 year with with the responsibility of a gun.
__________________
Liesje is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 03:46 PM   #8
The Fly
 
EdgeNBono's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: in Edge's spaceship
Posts: 293
Local Time: 11:34 PM
i say this is more the parents fault..not the kid..yes i have my own gun & so does my sister but my dad keeps them locked up...i agree poor parenting
__________________
EdgeNBono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 04:07 PM   #9
Refugee
 
The_Pac_Mule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,342
Local Time: 10:34 PM
I'm not defending the parents for not keeping the gun locked up, but I think even if they did, that kid probably still would have done what he did. Just by finding another way.
__________________
The_Pac_Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 04:16 PM   #10
New Yorker
 
MooMoo!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: MUTANT SPIDER THING. D=<
Posts: 3,090
Local Time: 04:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Pac_Mule View Post
I'm not defending the parents for not keeping the gun locked up, but I think even if they did, that kid probably still would have done what he did. Just by finding another way.
Yeah. Its not like it was an accident, the kid clearly had some sort of issue(s).
__________________
MooMoo! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 04:21 PM   #11
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MooMoo! View Post
Yeah. Its not like it was an accident, the kid clearly had some sort of issue(s).

This kid did an adult crime

he should be tried, convicted and punished the same as an adult.
__________________
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 04:25 PM   #12
Galeonbroad
 
Galeongirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Schoo Fishtank
Posts: 70,773
Local Time: 04:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
This kid did an adult crime

he should be tried, convicted and punished the same as an adult.
Agreed.


But am I the only person here who is SHOCKED by the idea of GUNS designed especially for KIDS?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraceRyan View Post
And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
Galeongirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 04:32 PM   #13
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 07:34 PM
yeah
when I was a kid
I put water in mine
not bullets or shells
__________________
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 04:43 PM   #14
Refugee
 
The_Pac_Mule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,342
Local Time: 10:34 PM
Quote:
But am I the only person here who is SHOCKED by the idea of GUNS designed especially for KIDS?
There's nothing wrong with kids having/using guns, for things like hunting, as long as they know gun safety and the parents are in control. The idea behind these guns is that they will be easier for kids to use, less recoil, not as big, etc, therefore making them more safe for kids to use.
__________________
The_Pac_Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 04:46 PM   #15
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Pac_Mule View Post
The idea behind these guns is that they will be easier for kids to use, less recoil, not as big, etc, therefore making them more safe for kids to use.
and
they still get the job done.
__________________

__________________
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com