Your Conservative Side (or vice versa)

[maycocksean]

Most people on this forum probably type me as left-leaning, and that’s probably pretty accurate. However, some might be surprised to find that I hold a number of views that would probably considered quite conservative.

For example:

I’m actually what you might call a fundamentalist Christian in many regards. I believe in things like the inerrancy of the Bible (though what I mean by that probably differs from many other fundamentalists), and the imminent, apocalyptic return of Christ. I don’t drink or smoke, and don’t believe in sex before marriage.

Also, I tend to be skeptical of the efficiency of government to get many things accomplished. Having spent 11 years in a place where government was the number one employer and the government was not merely big, but bloated, contributes to that perspective.

I am also pretty supportive of stricter laws to combat illegal immigration. Beyond, basic humanitarian measures I really don’t support providing services to illegal immigrants. For example, on NPR the other day they were talking about some new law that does not allow illegal immigrants to pay state resident tuition rates at state colleges (can’t remember which state). I found myself in agreement with the law. I think where I differ from many conservatives on this issue is that I don’t see the illegal immigrants as the “bad guys.” In my book the “bad guys” are the companies that hire illegals—obviously they underpay them, and often they mistreat them too, because they can. And of course they are the chief source of the illegal immigration problem because most illegal immigrants wouldn’t come here if they couldn’t get work. I’d like to see laws that crack down hard on those who hire illegal immigrants, more than punitive measures against the immigrants themselves.

But I digress. . .I’m not really looking to argue any of the specific issues mentioned above (in this thread any way). I am interested in hearing from other posters, where your views diverge from the “party line” whether it be liberal, conservative, libertarian or whatever worldview. We all tend to “type” one another, but I think it’s interesting to see where we DON’T fit the mold.

One final note: I think I may have started a thread like this a few years back, and if that’s the case. . .well, I think it’s time to revisit the idea!

 

[financeguy]

My liberal side would largely be apparent in voting Green and the recognition that addressing climate change is probably impossible without significant governmental intervention.

Also, for similar reasons, I am a strong advocate of rail transport.

 

[bigjohn2441]

my conservative side - i dislike liberals
my liberal side - i dislike conservatives

 

[maycocksean]

my conservative side - i dislike liberals
my liberal side - i dislike conservatives

Yeah, but we KNOW that! Tell us something we don't know.

 

[Bono's shades]

I think I surprise a lot of people IRL with my liberal views because I go to church, hardly ever swear, rarely drink, don't smoke or do drugs, and am not into casually hooking up with people.

I actually don't see any contradiction myself since these are all personal choices that don't have anything to do with ideology, but it does go against what a lot of people's preconceived notion of what a "liberal" is like.

 

[2861U2]

Nice. I was just thinking about this idea the other day.

Two points come to mind for me right away. The first is Don't Ask, Don't Tell. While I don't think anywhere close to 100% of conservatives support DADT, I would guess that a majority do, and I think it's unfortunate. If people are willing to fight and die for this country and to give others a chance at freedom, I couldn't care less if they're gay. Assuming the president follows through on repealing that, it will be one of the very few times so far I've thought he's done something admirable.

The second is gay marriage. Most conservatives believe in a complete, across-the-board "no" to gay marriage. My view is a little different. I believe it should be left up to the states- not the courts, not the legislators, not a federal decree one way or the other. If the citizens of a state vote to allow gay marriage in their state, great. If the citizens of a state vote to keep marriage as a man and a woman in their state, great. I really don't care, but I want the people of each state to decide. In fact, I would much rather have (hypothetically- this would never happen) all 50 states vote to allow gay marriage than a federal ban on gay marriage. Let the people of the states decide. To me, that is the only true conservative view on the issue.

I might be able to think up one or two more after a while. But I am looking forward to seeing some responses from a few certain posters, who shall remain nameless.

 

[Strongbow]

Things I support US Democrats on:

I support gun control and in fact, would prefer laws as strict as that of the UK and Ireland.

I support universal health coverage.

I support increasing taxes on those that make over 100,000 dollars a year, as well as finding ways to prevent the rich from hiding their wealth from federal taxes.

I think gay marriage should be legal, and that gay's should be allowed to openly serve in the military as they are in nearly every other NATO nation.

I don't have a problem with the government intervening significantly in the economy when it is necessary and fully support both the Bush administration and Obama administration attempts to jump start GDP growth were vital to getting the economy moving again.

I support the democrats position on immigration and think that hispanic immigrants have played a vital role in the US economy. I think immigration needs to be reformed and better regulated so the US can properly increase or decrease the numbers based on its immediate economic needs.

 

[Se7en]

i generally support the right to bear arms.

 

[2861U2]

Got a couple more.

1- I like Harry Truman. In fact, he's probably in my top 5 favorite presidents.
2- LBJ wasn't terrible either. Some of the Great Society I think was a bad idea, but some of it I thought was actually good.

 

[melon]

Interesting thread. I will have to think about this a bit, though, before I can answer. I've generally abandoned attachment to partisan politics, so I really have no problem if my belief system tends to not fit nicely within any specific ideology or political party.

 

[financeguy]

The second is gay marriage. Most conservatives believe in a complete, across-the-board "no" to gay marriage. My view is a little different. I believe it should be left up to the states- not the courts, not the legislators, not a federal decree one way or the other. If the citizens of a state vote to allow gay marriage in their state, great. If the citizens of a state vote to keep marriage as a man and a woman in their state, great. I really don't care, but I want the people of each state to decide. In fact, I would much rather have (hypothetically- this would never happen) all 50 states vote to allow gay marriage than a federal ban on gay marriage. Let the people of the states decide. To me, that is the only true conservative view on the issue.

I agree with you here. The position you have set out is closer to what I would regard as the correct conservative approach.

 

[BonosSaint]

1. I'm not anti-gun, although I am pro gun control--no gun sales at gunfairs,
background checks, required training and perhaps psychological testing
before someone is issued a carry permit.
2. I think a sense of entitlement has caused too many people to expect reward
without accomplishment--to be rewarded for who they think they are instead
of what they actually do. I'm not sure there is much of a market for excellence
anymore.
3. I am not pro-war, but I am not anti-war either in very limited circumstances,
after ALL other remedies have been exhausted and when the reason is important
enough. And then, you should have a clear purpose and go in with enough
strength to win (and having a shot at actually winning would be helpful) I'm
neither hawk nor dove.
4. I believe in longer prison sentences, when warranted, and believe that when
someone has entered your house illegally or means to do you harm, they do
so at their own risk.
5. I am pro-choice, but do believe that you do kill at least potential life with an
abortion and the closer to viablity that fetus becomes, the more uncomfortable
I am. I think there are many reasons for abortion and I think under all circumstances
it is the mother's call, but that doesn't mean I don't have discomfort about it.
(I would feel better about prolife positions--though I would still disagree--if I
didn't feel too many of them are interested in life only from conception to birth,
and then pick up interest again with brain death)
6. My eyes and mind glaze whenever the topic of global warming and pretty much anything green comes up. I
can't work up any interest.

 

[Bono's shades]

On further reflection I thought of an actual issue that I agree with conservatives on. I don't think drugs should be legalized (except maybe marijuana for medical purposes, but that should be strictly regulated).

 

[Irvine511]

I agree with you here. The position you have set out is closer to what I would regard as the correct conservative approach.

the conservative approach is to subject civil rights to the fickle whims of the majority?

 

[financeguy]

Not really, I would argue in favour - and it's a comparatively rare moment of agreement for me with fellow conservative FYMer 2861U2 - of the idea of subsidiarity: in other words, that laws should be decided at the most local level practicable or the organizing principle that matters ought to be handled by the smallest, lowest or least centralized competent authority. And, as such, if the opinions and/or social values of the majority in a particular state are in favour of modifying the legislative position to encompass gay marriage, then, of course, gay marriage should indeed be legislated for in that particular state.

Are you in favour of no rights for state legislatures? Do you favour abolishing state legislatures entirely, so that in a state of, say, 5 million population, the other 295 million in the US should have equal voting rights in deciding on legislation for the 5 million?

But anyway, why not just post your reaction to the OP, there are loads of existing gay marriage threads where the specific issues around gay marriage can be discussed.

 

[phillyfan26]

I'm not sure if I have any viewpoints that are conservative, honestly.

 

[Kieran McConville]

Hmmm. well. Yes, I say I have a conservative streak in me. My politics are broadly social democratic in the labourist sense. I support a fair society with some redistribution and a minimum of destitution: universal health care, aged pensions, unemployment assistance etc. Where those things exist courtesy of the great mid-20th century progressive era, I do not support efforts, overt or otherwise, to wind them back.

A lot of what in contemporary parlance falls under the 'liberal' banner (some of it strikingly illiberal, particularly when it indulges in a desire to micromanage people's personal affairs) does not do much for me. At all.

A lot of what falls under the 'new left' banner (a very broad catch all admittedly and maybe including 'liberal' in some contexts) also does not do much for me. You know, the roll-call of attitudes of mind we are all supposed to share.

The environmental movement is very important of course, but I think it is a historical failing of conservatives... or not even conservatives, really, so much as the self-proclaimed Right... to allow that to become a left issue. History will kill them on this, and it's a shame (for them, anyway). Conversely, I do not think history will be kind to those who insist that anti-religion must be part of the progressive way*. In both instances, those who cut off their noses to spite their faces will lose all influence because they are not meeting the world as it is.

I do not support the politicisation of every aspect of life. That's the baseline.

*Though I should add that that is quite separate from the matter of secular government and freedom from established state religion. Which as a point of fact has zip to do with personal religious faith, and I despise the way the two are confused. Secular government is not a tool to kill religion, it is a way of saving both temporal and spiritual from their own worst impulses.

 

[HyperU2]

I generally get lumped in with the Conservatives even though I hate religion and love abortion. I guess I generally prefer some of the Liberal ideas, I just find too much hypocrisy from it's followers. I take comfort in the fact that conservatives are full of shit and up front about it. I'll just stay here on this fence.

 

[Irvine511]

But anyway, why not just post your reaction to the OP, there are loads of existing gay marriage threads where the specific issues around gay marriage can be discussed.

gosh, FG, so sorry to have derailed your thread.

anyway ... let's see ...

1. i'm quite uncomfortable with abortion itself, though i am passionate that it remain legal. i would be very happy if no one ever had a need for an abortion again.

2. i live rather conservatively, that is, my lifestyle is pretty conservative. i save a large part of my income, i am not extravagant by any means in attitude or dress, i conserve as much as i can in general in all areas. that should be, i think, the actual definition of a conservative.

3. i'd argue for the *intelligent* application of American power probably more often than not. the reason why i was so adamantly against Iraq was because it was perfect example of a *stupid* use of American power.

4. i am a fan of federalism -- while civil rights seem to be universal and the idea of voting on them seems grotesque, i see no reason why the people of Mississippi and the people of California should live under the same set of laws.

5. i have some ideological problems with hate crimes, though i understand where that legislation comes from. deciding who is and who isn't protected seems quite discriminatory to me.

 

[BVS]

1. I'm not anti-gun, although I am pro gun control--no gun sales at gunfairs,
background checks, required training and perhaps psychological testing
before someone is issued a carry permit.
2. I think a sense of entitlement has caused too many people to expect reward
without accomplishment--to be rewarded for who they think they are instead
of what they actually do. I'm not sure there is much of a market for excellence
anymore.

I agree with these two. I am not an absolutionists when it comes to gun control, but I don't believe in free reign as to who and where people can carry and I do think certain guns shouldn't be allowed and background checks should be required.

And I do think far too many that take advantage of social programs, but it doesn't mean that there aren't those that truly need it.

I think almost all politicians are "dirty" and I think I would entertain the idea of term limits that would eliminate career politicians.

 

[phillyfan26]

I suppose I might have a conservative viewpoint on the education system. I can't be sure though, because I'm not sure how partisan the issue is.

 

[maycocksean]

Fascinating thread so far folks. It's so easy to think we've got other posters "figured out"--the responses here have given me pause and made me less quick to pigeonhole those who disagree with me on a given topic (as well as those who agree with me).

 

[BVS]

I understand conservative fiscal beliefs, but I think most are theory that do not work on the macro level, but work well in the micro. In fact I often vote conservative in local elections mainly when they have no real say in social issues.

I can't think of one social conservative issue that I can even possibly understand. I'm very much pro-family, I just have a more open mind to the definition of family. And when it comes to single mother or gay couples adopting, I completely approve but like ALL adoption both male and female role models are important but it doesn't matter to me if it's a mother, father, uncle, aunt, grandparent, godparent etc...

 

[Se7en]

1. i'm quite uncomfortable with abortion itself, though i am passionate that it remain legal. i would be very happy if no one ever had a need for an abortion again.

2. i live rather conservatively, that is, my lifestyle is pretty conservative. i save a large part of my income, i am not extravagant by any means in attitude or dress, i conserve as much as i can in general in all areas. that should be, i think, the actual definition of a conservative.

i agree with you on #1.

as far as #2 goes, i'm not sure consumption is necessarily a conservative/liberal issue. i guess it depends on how it's framed.

 

[martha]

I've been wracking my brain all day to try to come up with some viewpoints of mine that might be labeled conservative. I've thought of at least one, and then the responses here have made me think of others.

I have a general disdain for laws that are passed for my "own good." Helmet laws for adults and minors come to mind immediately. It's not that out of character if you think about it; I'm always blathering on about making my own decisions. The old conservatives used to be for personal responsibility, and I really like and respect that notion.

Believe it or not, I too feel that the ultimate goal is reduce the need for abortions, but until then, again, let me (in general) make my own decisions on that.

I was reminded here that I don't agree at all with shorter prison sentences. Too bad if you go the joint for twenty years. We all know what's right and wrong. Some of us think things through before we act.

So there you go.

 

[anitram]

I am generally in favour of tougher prison sentences for certain crimes, because after going through law school and practicing, I no longer believe that it is possible to rehabilitate some people. And public safety should be the first concern.

I also have a more conservative stance on some civil liberties issues, most of them in the area of mental health law.

In the area of higher education, I am not opposed to higher tuition rates for certain professional degrees that come with a high earning potential. There should be better student loan programs than the existing ones but in principle, I don't mind having to pay a premium for my degree(s).

 

[yolland]

Much of what immediately comes to mind for me has less to do with actual political ideology, than with popular caricatures of what liberal as opposed to conservative "lifestyles" supposedly look like. Like Sean and/or Bono's shades, I seldom drink, don't smoke or do drugs, I'm raising my kids with the teaching that sex is for marriage just like I was raised with, our family are observant Jews and religion is a major part of our lives, etc. (oh, and I'm so pathetically out of the loop on anything 'Hollywood' or TV-related that it's really downright un-American, never mind stereotypically 'un-liberal'). I grew up in a smalltown Southern, primarily Baptist setting and still feel quite comfortable in such social environments, regardless of the fact that they often entail a local political majority considerably to the right of me.

Relatedly, like a few other liberals (and some conservatives) in here, I also grew up poor in a poor community, and can understand and relate to certain concerns that support for social programs is at times compromised by an unrealistic, ironically patronizing blind spot to the all-too-real existence of self-defeatingly cynical attitudes towards education, work, and savings, and the role these often play in keeping poor people poor despite reasonably well-designed public assistance. Ultimately, my inclination to support such programs has less to do with optimism that many adults like that are likely to change, than a conviction that their children are therefore going to be operating at enough of a disadvantage in life without the state giving up on them too. You can preach until you're blue in the face in the abstract about self-discipline, delayed gratification etc., and at the end of the day it won't mean jack-shit if your audience hasn't had that intimately role-modeled for them on multiple levels. Teachers, social workers and the like aren't by any means true substitutes for responsible parents, but they do offer some promise of mentorship and some reason to have faith in the future, and that can make a powerful difference--as a teacher myself, I've seen it happen, many many times. (Of course, hopefully needless to clarify, there are also a great many people who are in dire economic straits despite an exemplary work ethic and disciplined management of whatever financial resources their labor afforded them; and their history of good-faith contributions to society should be returned in kind to the fullest extent affordable when bad luck strikes, through job-training programs, adult-education funding, needed stopgap funds to cover bare-bones essentials for them and their dependents, etc., until their situations stabilize.)

On abortion policy, I personally favor an approach of legally unrestricted access to abortion through the end of the first trimester, and after that only for medical reasons as certified by a doctor. Not sure where on the political spectrum that stance falls, really. I firmly believe it unacceptable for the state to assume such absolute power over what happens inside its own citizens' bodies as to force women to carry and bear children against their will with no window of time for individual control, but I also believe it's bad for women, both as individuals and as potential parents to the next generation, not to be expected to rise to that level of responsible decisiveness for something so potentially consequential to society as the arrival of a new person and citizen into its ranks.

I do support some enhancements to our existing gun-control laws, such as closing the 'secondary market' loopholes which allow gun-show, swap-meet and internet sales with no background checks; child-access prevention laws concerning storage; mandatory training; and increasing the (Bureau of) AFT's scope for tracking sales at licensed dealers, and shutting down or temporarily revoking licenses of those to whom large numbers of guns acquired through black-market-bound 'straw purchases' are traced. That said, while I'm open to the possibility of even further restrictions (should such measures be well-implemented and still fail to dramatically reduce firearms crime), my strong preference would be for a gradualist approach which balances our long tradition of a constitutional right to bear arms against the obvious public safety issues, without effectively dismissing either.

Great thread Sean (et al.), thanks.

 

[NotBono]

I'm a registered Republican, however, I can't stand alot of the positions that Republicans take.

1. I'm for gay marriage
2. I believe pot should be decriminalized (provided its for personal consumption only); I still don't believe it should be legal (yet).
3. I'm for embryonic stem cell research (as long as abortion continues to be legal [personally against abortion])
4. I'm for an amnesty program for illegal immigrants, however, it must include some type of military or domestic service and require the language to be spoken.
5. (Neither side touches this one) I believe there needs to be a complete reform of welfare and a reevaluation of those receiving welfare.
6. I believe we need to invest in alternate fuels; not for environmental reasons, but to tell OPEC to shove it.

 

[anitram]

Much of what immediately comes to mind for me has less to do with actual political ideology, than with popular caricatures of what liberal as opposed to conservative "lifestyles" supposedly look like. Like Sean and/or Bono's shades, I seldom drink, don't smoke or do drugs, I'm raising my kids with the teaching that sex is for marriage just like I was raised with, our family are observant Jews and religion is a major part of our lives, etc. (oh, and I'm so pathetically out of the loop on anything 'Hollywood' or TV-related that it's really downright un-American, never mind stereotypically 'un-liberal').

That's interesting in that I hadn't really thought of it in this context until you brought it up.

And interestingly enough while we'd be on the same side of the political spectrum on probably an overwhelming number of issues, my "lifestyle" is probably the antithesis of yours. Maybe even more interesting is the fact that while I was brought up in a traditional nuclear family, my parents really never promoted "conservative lifestyle" ideals I suppose. I'm not saying they let us run wild, but they didn't really make religion part of our daily life at all, I don't think they thought for one minute that we'd be virgins at marriage (having my mother take me to the Dr and put me on birth control might be a good indication, heh), and alcohol et al. was just seen as something that we should probably partake in and learn to use responsibly.

Thanks for bringing up this point, made me think.

 

[BonosSaint]

I think a sense of entitlement has caused too many people to expect reward
without accomplishment--to be rewarded for who they think they are instead
of what they actually do. I'm not sure there is much of a market for excellence
anymore.
.

In case, anyone misunderstood, I'm not talking about social programs (which I believe in for the most part as I believe there should be safety nets--though there should be a sharper crackdown on abuse) here, but a general sense of entitlement that seems to permeate through life. There isn't much of a connection between merit and reward.