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Old 10-11-2009, 12:35 PM   #1
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Your Conservative Side (or vice versa)

Most people on this forum probably type me as left-leaning, and that’s probably pretty accurate. However, some might be surprised to find that I hold a number of views that would probably considered quite conservative.

For example:

I’m actually what you might call a fundamentalist Christian in many regards. I believe in things like the inerrancy of the Bible (though what I mean by that probably differs from many other fundamentalists), and the imminent, apocalyptic return of Christ. I don’t drink or smoke, and don’t believe in sex before marriage.

Also, I tend to be skeptical of the efficiency of government to get many things accomplished. Having spent 11 years in a place where government was the number one employer and the government was not merely big, but bloated, contributes to that perspective.

I am also pretty supportive of stricter laws to combat illegal immigration. Beyond, basic humanitarian measures I really don’t support providing services to illegal immigrants. For example, on NPR the other day they were talking about some new law that does not allow illegal immigrants to pay state resident tuition rates at state colleges (can’t remember which state). I found myself in agreement with the law. I think where I differ from many conservatives on this issue is that I don’t see the illegal immigrants as the “bad guys.” In my book the “bad guys” are the companies that hire illegals—obviously they underpay them, and often they mistreat them too, because they can. And of course they are the chief source of the illegal immigration problem because most illegal immigrants wouldn’t come here if they couldn’t get work. I’d like to see laws that crack down hard on those who hire illegal immigrants, more than punitive measures against the immigrants themselves.

But I digress. . .I’m not really looking to argue any of the specific issues mentioned above (in this thread any way). I am interested in hearing from other posters, where your views diverge from the “party line” whether it be liberal, conservative, libertarian or whatever worldview. We all tend to “type” one another, but I think it’s interesting to see where we DON’T fit the mold.

One final note: I think I may have started a thread like this a few years back, and if that’s the case. . .well, I think it’s time to revisit the idea!
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Old 10-11-2009, 12:40 PM   #2
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My liberal side would largely be apparent in voting Green and the recognition that addressing climate change is probably impossible without significant governmental intervention.

Also, for similar reasons, I am a strong advocate of rail transport.
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Old 10-11-2009, 12:52 PM   #3
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my conservative side - i dislike liberals
my liberal side - i dislike conservatives
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Old 10-11-2009, 12:55 PM   #4
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my conservative side - i dislike liberals
my liberal side - i dislike conservatives
Yeah, but we KNOW that! Tell us something we don't know.
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Old 10-11-2009, 01:33 PM   #5
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I think I surprise a lot of people IRL with my liberal views because I go to church, hardly ever swear, rarely drink, don't smoke or do drugs, and am not into casually hooking up with people.

I actually don't see any contradiction myself since these are all personal choices that don't have anything to do with ideology, but it does go against what a lot of people's preconceived notion of what a "liberal" is like.
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Old 10-11-2009, 01:41 PM   #6
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Nice. I was just thinking about this idea the other day.

Two points come to mind for me right away. The first is Don't Ask, Don't Tell. While I don't think anywhere close to 100% of conservatives support DADT, I would guess that a majority do, and I think it's unfortunate. If people are willing to fight and die for this country and to give others a chance at freedom, I couldn't care less if they're gay. Assuming the president follows through on repealing that, it will be one of the very few times so far I've thought he's done something admirable.

The second is gay marriage. Most conservatives believe in a complete, across-the-board "no" to gay marriage. My view is a little different. I believe it should be left up to the states- not the courts, not the legislators, not a federal decree one way or the other. If the citizens of a state vote to allow gay marriage in their state, great. If the citizens of a state vote to keep marriage as a man and a woman in their state, great. I really don't care, but I want the people of each state to decide. In fact, I would much rather have (hypothetically- this would never happen) all 50 states vote to allow gay marriage than a federal ban on gay marriage. Let the people of the states decide. To me, that is the only true conservative view on the issue.

I might be able to think up one or two more after a while. But I am looking forward to seeing some responses from a few certain posters, who shall remain nameless.
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Old 10-11-2009, 02:04 PM   #7
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Things I support US Democrats on:

I support gun control and in fact, would prefer laws as strict as that of the UK and Ireland.

I support universal health coverage.

I support increasing taxes on those that make over 100,000 dollars a year, as well as finding ways to prevent the rich from hiding their wealth from federal taxes.

I think gay marriage should be legal, and that gay's should be allowed to openly serve in the military as they are in nearly every other NATO nation.

I don't have a problem with the government intervening significantly in the economy when it is necessary and fully support both the Bush administration and Obama administration attempts to jump start GDP growth were vital to getting the economy moving again.

I support the democrats position on immigration and think that hispanic immigrants have played a vital role in the US economy. I think immigration needs to be reformed and better regulated so the US can properly increase or decrease the numbers based on its immediate economic needs.
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Old 10-11-2009, 02:29 PM   #8
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i generally support the right to bear arms.
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Old 10-11-2009, 03:05 PM   #9
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Got a couple more.

1- I like Harry Truman. In fact, he's probably in my top 5 favorite presidents.
2- LBJ wasn't terrible either. Some of the Great Society I think was a bad idea, but some of it I thought was actually good.
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Old 10-11-2009, 03:12 PM   #10
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Interesting thread. I will have to think about this a bit, though, before I can answer. I've generally abandoned attachment to partisan politics, so I really have no problem if my belief system tends to not fit nicely within any specific ideology or political party.
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Old 10-11-2009, 03:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
The second is gay marriage. Most conservatives believe in a complete, across-the-board "no" to gay marriage. My view is a little different. I believe it should be left up to the states- not the courts, not the legislators, not a federal decree one way or the other. If the citizens of a state vote to allow gay marriage in their state, great. If the citizens of a state vote to keep marriage as a man and a woman in their state, great. I really don't care, but I want the people of each state to decide. In fact, I would much rather have (hypothetically- this would never happen) all 50 states vote to allow gay marriage than a federal ban on gay marriage. Let the people of the states decide. To me, that is the only true conservative view on the issue.
I agree with you here. The position you have set out is closer to what I would regard as the correct conservative approach.
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Old 10-11-2009, 05:41 PM   #12
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1. I'm not anti-gun, although I am pro gun control--no gun sales at gunfairs,
background checks, required training and perhaps psychological testing
before someone is issued a carry permit.
2. I think a sense of entitlement has caused too many people to expect reward
without accomplishment--to be rewarded for who they think they are instead
of what they actually do. I'm not sure there is much of a market for excellence
anymore.
3. I am not pro-war, but I am not anti-war either in very limited circumstances,
after ALL other remedies have been exhausted and when the reason is important
enough. And then, you should have a clear purpose and go in with enough
strength to win (and having a shot at actually winning would be helpful) I'm
neither hawk nor dove.
4. I believe in longer prison sentences, when warranted, and believe that when
someone has entered your house illegally or means to do you harm, they do
so at their own risk.
5. I am pro-choice, but do believe that you do kill at least potential life with an
abortion and the closer to viablity that fetus becomes, the more uncomfortable
I am. I think there are many reasons for abortion and I think under all circumstances
it is the mother's call, but that doesn't mean I don't have discomfort about it.
(I would feel better about prolife positions--though I would still disagree--if I
didn't feel too many of them are interested in life only from conception to birth,
and then pick up interest again with brain death)
6. My eyes and mind glaze whenever the topic of global warming and pretty much anything green comes up. I
can't work up any interest.
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Old 10-11-2009, 06:13 PM   #13
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On further reflection I thought of an actual issue that I agree with conservatives on. I don't think drugs should be legalized (except maybe marijuana for medical purposes, but that should be strictly regulated).
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Old 10-11-2009, 06:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
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I agree with you here. The position you have set out is closer to what I would regard as the correct conservative approach.


the conservative approach is to subject civil rights to the fickle whims of the majority?
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Old 10-11-2009, 06:45 PM   #15
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Not really, I would argue in favour - and it's a comparatively rare moment of agreement for me with fellow conservative FYMer 2861U2 - of the idea of subsidiarity: in other words, that laws should be decided at the most local level practicable or the organizing principle that matters ought to be handled by the smallest, lowest or least centralized competent authority. And, as such, if the opinions and/or social values of the majority in a particular state are in favour of modifying the legislative position to encompass gay marriage, then, of course, gay marriage should indeed be legislated for in that particular state.

Are you in favour of no rights for state legislatures? Do you favour abolishing state legislatures entirely, so that in a state of, say, 5 million population, the other 295 million in the US should have equal voting rights in deciding on legislation for the 5 million?

But anyway, why not just post your reaction to the OP, there are loads of existing gay marriage threads where the specific issues around gay marriage can be discussed.
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Old 10-11-2009, 07:33 PM   #16
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I'm not sure if I have any viewpoints that are conservative, honestly.
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Old 10-11-2009, 07:39 PM   #17
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Hmmm. well. Yes, I say I have a conservative streak in me. My politics are broadly social democratic in the labourist sense. I support a fair society with some redistribution and a minimum of destitution: universal health care, aged pensions, unemployment assistance etc. Where those things exist courtesy of the great mid-20th century progressive era, I do not support efforts, overt or otherwise, to wind them back.

A lot of what in contemporary parlance falls under the 'liberal' banner (some of it strikingly illiberal, particularly when it indulges in a desire to micromanage people's personal affairs) does not do much for me. At all.

A lot of what falls under the 'new left' banner (a very broad catch all admittedly and maybe including 'liberal' in some contexts) also does not do much for me. You know, the roll-call of attitudes of mind we are all supposed to share.

The environmental movement is very important of course, but I think it is a historical failing of conservatives... or not even conservatives, really, so much as the self-proclaimed Right... to allow that to become a left issue. History will kill them on this, and it's a shame (for them, anyway). Conversely, I do not think history will be kind to those who insist that anti-religion must be part of the progressive way*. In both instances, those who cut off their noses to spite their faces will lose all influence because they are not meeting the world as it is.

I do not support the politicisation of every aspect of life. That's the baseline.

*Though I should add that that is quite separate from the matter of secular government and freedom from established state religion. Which as a point of fact has zip to do with personal religious faith, and I despise the way the two are confused. Secular government is not a tool to kill religion, it is a way of saving both temporal and spiritual from their own worst impulses.
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Old 10-11-2009, 07:49 PM   #18
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I generally get lumped in with the Conservatives even though I hate religion and love abortion. I guess I generally prefer some of the Liberal ideas, I just find too much hypocrisy from it's followers. I take comfort in the fact that conservatives are full of shit and up front about it. I'll just stay here on this fence.
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Old 10-11-2009, 08:02 PM   #19
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But anyway, why not just post your reaction to the OP, there are loads of existing gay marriage threads where the specific issues around gay marriage can be discussed.

gosh, FG, so sorry to have derailed your thread.

anyway ... let's see ...

1. i'm quite uncomfortable with abortion itself, though i am passionate that it remain legal. i would be very happy if no one ever had a need for an abortion again.

2. i live rather conservatively, that is, my lifestyle is pretty conservative. i save a large part of my income, i am not extravagant by any means in attitude or dress, i conserve as much as i can in general in all areas. that should be, i think, the actual definition of a conservative.

3. i'd argue for the *intelligent* application of American power probably more often than not. the reason why i was so adamantly against Iraq was because it was perfect example of a *stupid* use of American power.

4. i am a fan of federalism -- while civil rights seem to be universal and the idea of voting on them seems grotesque, i see no reason why the people of Mississippi and the people of California should live under the same set of laws.

5. i have some ideological problems with hate crimes, though i understand where that legislation comes from. deciding who is and who isn't protected seems quite discriminatory to me.
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Old 10-11-2009, 08:07 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonosSaint View Post
1. I'm not anti-gun, although I am pro gun control--no gun sales at gunfairs,
background checks, required training and perhaps psychological testing
before someone is issued a carry permit.
2. I think a sense of entitlement has caused too many people to expect reward
without accomplishment--to be rewarded for who they think they are instead
of what they actually do. I'm not sure there is much of a market for excellence
anymore.
I agree with these two. I am not an absolutionists when it comes to gun control, but I don't believe in free reign as to who and where people can carry and I do think certain guns shouldn't be allowed and background checks should be required.

And I do think far too many that take advantage of social programs, but it doesn't mean that there aren't those that truly need it.

I think almost all politicians are "dirty" and I think I would entertain the idea of term limits that would eliminate career politicians.
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