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Old 09-26-2008, 05:37 PM   #61
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The virus has been around as long as all the other STDs (AIDS excepted). But the vaccine was just recently approved.
randhail can correct me if I'm wrong, but it was a lot more recently that the link between HPV and cervical cancer was discovered, wasn't it?
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Old 09-26-2008, 05:37 PM   #62
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so people only abstain from sex because they're afraid of getting cancer?

i just don't understand. what if there were a vaccination that prevented HIV? would you give that to your children, or would you simply look them in the eye after they announced their status and said, "well, i told you so, and you know what? so did Jesus."
I know that you know HIV can be spread by methods other than sexual intercourse.
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Old 09-26-2008, 05:40 PM   #63
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Haven't studies shown time and time again that there's no link between autism and childhood vaccinations?
That's correct, but people don't want to believe that. Some people have it set in their head that the two are linked and refuse to believe the evidence.

Specifically, it was an additive called Thimerosal that was supposed to blame, but it's been taken out of all but the flu vaccine, and guess what the rates of autism have not decreased at all.
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Old 09-26-2008, 05:41 PM   #64
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but the whole anal cancer thing ... you know that's only going to apply to the gays. so, really, who cares? not Jesus.
I have a feeling that Jesus would care far more than many humans do, (presupposing he's the son of God, and all, and his caring even matters ).
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Old 09-26-2008, 05:42 PM   #65
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That's correct, but people don't want to believe that. Some people have it set in their head that the two are linked and refuse to believe the evidence.

Specifically, it was an additive called Thimerosal that was supposed to blame, but it's been taken out of all but the flu vaccine, and guess what the rates of autism have not decreased at all.
Off topic, but I find some of the Autism cluster studies fascinating.
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Old 09-26-2008, 05:42 PM   #66
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I know that you know HIV can be spread by methods other than sexual intercourse.


it's all sinnin'.
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Old 09-26-2008, 05:44 PM   #67
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randhail can correct me if I'm wrong, but it was a lot more recent that the link between HPV and cervical cancer was discovered, wasn't it?
Correct.

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The story of our understanding of cervical cancer and its primary cause, HPV, is intriguing. It involves prostitutes, nuns, and a group of second wives, as well as generations of dedicated researchers. Almost a hundred years ago, epidemiologists began to note a curious phenomenon: cervical cancer was common in prostitutes, but extremely rare in nuns – with the exception of nuns who had been sexually active before entering the convent. They also observed that the rate of cervical cancer was alarmingly high among women who were married to men whose first wives had died of cervical cancer. From these clues, scientists deduced that cervical cancer was caused by a sexually transmitted agent. It was not until the late 1970s, however, that German researchers identified HPV, long known to cause both cutaneous and genital warts, as the agent in question.

In the 1980s, building on the work of the German researchers, NCI intramural researchers were instrumental in identifying the mechanism by which HPV causes cervical cancer when they found that the viral proteins E6 and E7 induce abnormal cell proliferation and tumor development. Meanwhile, NCI-funded epidemiologic studies in different populations around the world were confirming a causal link between cervical cancer and HPV infection.
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Old 09-26-2008, 05:47 PM   #68
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it's all sinnin'.
Requiring blood for surgery? Using an infected needle or being stuck accidentally?
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Old 09-26-2008, 06:10 PM   #69
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Requiring blood for surgery? Using an infected needle or being stuck accidentally?


all unfortunate accidents, and thoroughly preventable ones. but the point holds, you see? sin affects everyone.
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Old 09-26-2008, 06:24 PM   #70
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still, there are some immunizations that are pretty much required by law, right? like polio, smallpox, etc.?
Yes. Immunizations that prevent contagious, infectious diseases.

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ultimately, yes, it is a parent's choice
This is the issue I'm most concerned about. We're talking about grade-school children who are way below the age of consent being immunized by the government for a disease that is passed sexually. I'm all for people who are of-age making informed decisions about their own sexual health. But when people start revolting against a school board that believes such decisions belong between grade-school-age children, parents, and their GPs, without the school's involvement, I have a problem.

Otherwise we might as well hand out clean needles to schoolchildren too, because shoot, you never know.
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Old 09-26-2008, 06:40 PM   #71
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Yes. Immunizations that prevent contagious, infectious diseases.



This is the issue I'm most concerned about. We're talking about grade-school children who are way below the age of consent being immunized by the government for a disease that is passed sexually. I'm all for people who are of-age making informed decisions about their own sexual health. But when people start revolting against a school board that believes such decisions belong between grade-school-age children, parents, and their GPs, without the school's involvement, I have a problem.

Otherwise we might as well hand out clean needles to schoolchildren too, because shoot, you never know.
Perhaps you're not aware of this, but parents are required to sign a consent form when children are immunized against anything at school. The government doesn't walk in all Big Brother-like and just start shooting children up without parental consent.

Does that make you feel better about it?
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Old 09-26-2008, 06:44 PM   #72
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But using fear to justify giving this immunization is okay?
Receiving a vaccination isn't comparable to making and maintaining a personal commitment to a set of values that shape your behavior over the course of a lifetime. Getting vaccinated isn't moral behavior, and what other reason is there to get any vaccine beside fear? Would you admire parents who rejected all vaccinations for their children on the grounds that God will provide if it pleases Him to keep them alive and unscathed?

While I don't agree with refusing vaccinations on religious grounds, I do agree that any legal loopholes which apply to other vaccination requirements should be extended to the HPV vaccine as well.
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Old 09-26-2008, 06:56 PM   #73
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This is the issue I'm most concerned about.

except that the thrust of your posts belie this claim, as seen below.


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Otherwise we might as well hand out clean needles to schoolchildren too, because shoot, you never know.

it is quite likely that your child will have sex with more than one person, and it is quite likely that those people will have had sex with more than one person and it is quite likely that the person said child marries will also have sex with more than one person. it amazes me all the feel good, pie-in-the-sky platitudes we often get from conservatives involving the innocence of their children and their "high expectations" which serve to do nothing but inculcate a sense of shame should the child engage in what is a very, very human activity he or she is hardwired to want to do. it's lovely to want said activity to occur only within marriage. but is someone a failure if that doesn't happen? are we really going to prize virginity like this? what if our children, you know, disagree with us and the values we try to impart? aren't we better off vaccinating and then teaching our values whatever they may be and then understanding that, guess what, our kids are going to do whatever they want to do. you cannot control their behavior. you cannot.

safety first. that was the #1 thing i was taught when working with children. nothing matters if they are not safe. whether in the pool, in the classroom, or at recess. they had to be safe.

safety first. do not jeopardize your child's health for ideology.

(in a general sense, not addressed to anyone in particular)
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Old 09-26-2008, 07:06 PM   #74
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except that the thrust of your posts belie this claim, as seen below.
Maybe you should read my posts again. My whole point is not whether this vaccine shouldn't be administered. (I'm rather neutral on the subject.) What I am saying is that a religious school that holds to a higher standard for sexual behavior ought to be the ones to decide whether their values are going to be undercut by a governmental policy. And if they decide that it is, they have every right to say, "we're not going to administer it here." They aren't mandating that kids not get the vaccine. They are happy to direct parents to places where the vaccine can be administered. They are saying that they will not administer the vaccine on school grounds, and when the subject matter has nothing to do with public safety (which would affect a sitation like polio), they should have the right to do so.

The issue is religious freedom vs. government intervention. Cleario?
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Old 09-26-2008, 07:08 PM   #75
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The issue is religious freedom vs. government intervention. Cleario?
How is it religious freedom?
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