Woman Charged With Discrimination For Christian Roommate Ad

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Christian roommate ad spurs action | WOOD TV8

Updated: Friday, 22 Oct 2010, 11:08 AM EDT
Published : Thursday, 21 Oct 2010, 5:51 PM EDT

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. (WOOD) - The Fair Housing Center of West Michigan filed a housing discrimination charge against a Grand Rapids woman who advertised for a Christian roommate on her church bulletin board.

The 31-year-old woman's attorney, who works for the Alliance Defense Fund , said this is a blatant violation of her First Amendment right to freely associate.

But Nancy Haynes of the Fair Housing Center told 24 Hour News 8 the woman has every right to seek and live with a Christian roommate -- but advertising for it publicly, even on a church bulletin board, violates federal law.

"She can be a Christian and she can even use that as a criteria for who she wants to rent to. She just can't state that. Because to state that is a violation of the Fair Housing Act," she said. "There are certain exceptions that apply. She can actually, in practice, not rent to a non-Christian. But she can't make the statement. The statement alone is a violation of the act. What she can do in practice she can't make a statement about."

Haynes said the Fair Housing Center began investigating after someone in the congregation, who was offended, filed a complaint.

The center then filed a complaint with the Michigan Department of Civil Rights , and the action is administrative, not criminal. The center asks for a response to try and negotiate a settlement. If they can't, it's possible that the Michigan Department of Civil Rights would determine if a violation happened and perhaps recommend a hearing.

The Alliance Defense Fund sent a letter seeking dismissal of this complaint to the Michigan Department of Civil Rights, but there has not yet been a response.

"I found (the woman and her attorney's) response very offensive. We're not punishing her for being Christian at all. If you're in the business of renting, it's a business transaction that's held to a standard under federal, state and local law."

The state wants the woman to get training in federal law, and reimburse the Fair Housing Center $300 for the time it took them to investigate.
 
"She can be a Christian and she can even use that as a criteria for who she wants to rent to. She just can't state that. Because to state that is a violation of the Fair Housing Act," she said. "There are certain exceptions that apply. She can actually, in practice, not rent to a non-Christian. But she can't make the statement. The statement alone is a violation of the act. What she can do in practice she can't make a statement about."

i don't know how i was able to read this paragraph without suffering an aneurysm
 
Someone has WAY TOO MUCH time on their hands.

Something doesn't make sense. Why would someone in the congregation be offended and file a complaint?
 
I don't understand this....you see ads for "SWF/SWM" for roommates all the time in the newspaper...what's wrong with that? If I advertise in the personals for a partner and I only want a man, is that also discrimination?

I can understand why she would only want a Christian to live with - it has nothing to do with racism at all, just like I'd prefer to live with someone who is Jewish - strictly due to the dietary laws which prohibit certain foods which I couldn't have in my refrigerator (for example).

I think it's unfair that they made her pay a fine. She had every right to do what she did. It is not discrimination at all.

BVS is right, someone really does have WAY too much time on their hands.
 
i don't know how i was able to read this paragraph without suffering an aneurysm

This. :huh:

The article doesn't say if this was a roommate for the woman's private home or if it was for someone to share an apartment. Assuming this was for her own home, I don't see where this is discrimination. Frankly, instead of her owing the Fair Housing Center $300 for their investigation, they should pay her $1000 for the harassment.
 
Something else about this story isn't adding up for me. This was printed in a church bullentin, you can print all kinds of discriminating bullshit in those things. Government doesn't have a right to say what can go in there.

I'm thinking either someone doesn't have their facts straight or this is a set up, someone trying to challenge the separation of church and state... :hmm:
 
Yes, church pastors can say all kinds of things that employers can not.

But a church can not exclude itself from State and Federal Fair Housing laws anymore than they can exclude themselves from FDA laws or building code laws.

A church school can not exclude itself from child endagermant laws.


see link from fair housing law

United States Code: Title 42,3604. Discrimination in the sale or rental of housing and other prohibited practices | LII / Legal Information Institute

As made applicable by section 3603 of this title and except as exempted by sections 3603 (b) and 3607 of this title, it shall be unlawful—

(a) To refuse to sell or rent after the making of a bona fide offer, or to refuse to negotiate for the sale or rental of, or otherwise make unavailable or deny, a dwelling to any person because of race, color, religion, sex, familial status, or national origin. (b) To discriminate against any person in the terms, conditions, or privileges of sale or rental of a dwelling, or in the provision of services or facilities in connection therewith, because of race, color, religion, sex, familial status, or national origin.

(c) To make, print, or publish, or cause to be made, printed, or published any notice, statement, or advertisement, with respect to the sale or rental of a dwelling that indicates any preference, limitation, or discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, handicap, familial status, or national origin, or an intention to make any such preference, limitation, or discrimination. (d) To represent to any person because of race, color, religion, sex, handicap, familial status, or national origin that any dwelling is not available for inspection, sale, or rental when such dwelling is in fact so available.
 
I can understand what the law is getting at - housing discrimination is bad, period. But shouldn't there be a distinction made between discrimination when simply renting a place to someone, and when advertising for a roommate? With a roommate, you're living with the person, so I think it makes sense to be able to advertise for the qualities in a person that you would be comfortable living with. Is it also illegal for a female to advertise for another female roommate, or should she have to go through the motions as though she'd be willing to rent a room to a man?
 
These are laws I have been dealing with for about 30 years. I have a Real Estate Broker's license and own rental properties.

This whole thing is out of proportion. Her handwritten note on the church board was reported to the Fair Housing Board. They had to follow up on the complaint. Landlords 'discriminate' all the time. There are certain types of tenants I don't want. I just don't put it in print. I do put 'good credit' a must, personal references required. And then I do a face to face interview to get a feeling if I want to be in a business relationship with them, and if they want me to be their landlord.

Some questions I have, does this church have a sign that says Christians only?
What does this woman really mean, with Christians only? Would she accept a Catholic, a Mormon? I have known some free-minded (and body) born-again Christian women that liked entertaining all night. Good for me, bad for any room mates.

What if a person who attends this church passed this $600. rental on to a very decent 50 year old female friend that was agnostic. Should she be denied affordable housing?

I do get the feeling because it is 'a room' in a personal residence there should be some latitude. That one may want to discriminate.
I don't believe housing laws permit that. Is this not this really about behavior, more than identity. I would rather have a 'decent behaving' atheist, Jew, or Muslim sharing a house with me over an obnoxious person of a specific faith.
 
A handwritten note? Are you sure?



I spent about 15 minutes, trying to get a little better informed :shrug:



inter.jpg


http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978628016


I don't think it matters if it was hand-written or typed
once the complaint was filed, they had to follow up.



btw,
Once a complaint came in to a firm I was working at because we advertised a property as being 'walking distance' to the beach.
Apparently we were discriminating against wheel chair users.

All future ads read '4 houses to beach' or 'two blocks' to beach.
 
I do get the feeling because it is 'a room' in a personal residence there should be some latitude. That one may want to discriminate.
I don't believe housing laws permit that. Is this not this really about behavior, more than identity. I would rather have a 'decent behaving' atheist, Jew, or Muslim sharing a house with me over an obnoxious person of a specific faith.

I understand that, and I definitely agree, that's the way I would definitely approach it, too, if it were me.

I just think it's reasonable to think that there are deal-breakers when it comes to choosing someone who will be living in such close proximity with you, and if religion is a deal-breaker for that woman, then she should be allowed that. I find it surprising and really odd that there aren't allowances made for roommate situations. Again, what about the case where a woman needs a roommate but doesn't feel comfortable living with a man?

But again, I feel that it's an entirely different matter when you're renting a separate residence.


Eta -

btw,
Once a complaint came in to a firm I was working at because we advertised a property as being 'walking distance' to the beach.
Apparently we were discriminated against wheel chair users.

All future ads read '4 houses to beach' or 'two blocks' to beach.

:lol: Unreal.
 
I don't think it matters if it was hand-written or typed
once the complaint was filed, they had to follow up.

Well my thought was how do they prove she wrote it, or added that part?

I get that they had to follow up, I hope common sense prevails and understands the difference when looking for a roommate rather than a tenant.

I really have to wonder about the person that filed the complaint.
 
this actually makes more sense after deep posted the law... i suppose if somebody printed an ad that said "looking for roommate, no blacks please" it would be easier to understand why it could be seen as discriminatory... and why the confusing circle of logic that was the "you can practice this but you can't say you're practicing it" line actually makes some sense, sorta.
 
this actually makes more sense after deep posted the law... i suppose if somebody printed an ad that said "looking for roommate, no blacks please" it would be easier to understand why it could be seen as discriminatory... and why the confusing circle of logic that was the "you can practice this but you can't say you're practicing it" line actually makes some sense, sorta.

Yeah I agree that it does make a little more sense, I guess the thing that bothers me is that it was advertised in a certain community. Those in a Christian church are more than likely Christians or looking to be Christians. I can see the issue if it was advertised in a local newspaper. If you posted a similar sign in an all girls school and said "female roommate wanted" would it fall under the same inestigation?
 
To me the issue seems to be where the ad was posted?

I live in Grand Rapids and I work for a private Christian college, so I see ads for people seeking "Christian" roommates all the time. While you or I may not agree or see why someone would care, to a lot of people they only want a "Christian" roommate and assume they are held to a higher standard. You see these kinds of ads all over on our online forum (like a Craigslist just for the college community) and also on various boards across campus. Does hanging the ad in a church make it "public"? I'm assuming people can post whatever ads they want on our forum and on the various message boards around school because we are a private school?

I've used the same boards (both online and actual boards that hang in various places) to find roommates in the past and I've always had set criteria (females, no smoking, pet friendly, etc...), though I've never specified or cared about religion.
 
I find it interesting that she put the ^Christian part in after she wrote the ad, that's what it looks like to me. If you actually wrote that in as some sort of afterthought then how much did you really intend to discriminate? If Christian was your top priority, to exclude any and all others, why would it be the ^ (could have been <> but that's already taken)? Intent doesn't matter I guess. I would guess that maybe the person who reported it was a lawyer, or someone who just looks for things.

I think when you start saying "walking distance" is discrimination you've taken the intent of the law way too far. I hardly think that people who use that phrase are intentionally callously insensitive to handicapped people. Or intending to discriminate.
 
I would distinguish between something freely chosen such as religion and traits like skin colour. I find this complaint absurd.
 
Before 'Fair Housing Laws' were passed some properties had 'deed restrictions' prohibiting the sale or renting of the property to members of the Jewish religion.



Exclusionary covenants
In the 1920s and 1930s, covenants that restricted the sale or occupation of real property on the basis of race, ethnicity, religion or social class were common in the United States, where the primary intent was to keep "white" neighbourhoods "white". Such covenants (also known as racial covenants or racial restrictive covenants) were employed by many real estate developers to "protect" entire subdivisions. The purpose of an exclusionary covenant was to prohibit a buyer of property from reselling, leasing or transferring the property to members of a given race, ethnic origin and/ or religion as specified in the title deed. Some covenants, such as those tied to properties in Forest Hills Gardens, New York, also sought to exclude working class people however this type of social segregation was more commonly achieved through the use of high property prices, minimum cost requirements and application reference checks.[8] In practice, exclusionary covenants were most typically concerned with keeping out African-Americans, however restrictions against Asian-Americans, Jews and Catholics were not uncommon. For example, the Lake Shore Club District in Pennsylvania, sought to exclude anyone of Negro, Mongolian, Hungarian, Mexican, Greek, Armenian, Austrian, Italian, Russian, Polish, Slavish or Roumanian birth.[9] Cities known for their widespread use of racial covenants include Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit and Los Angeles.
 
btw,
Once a complaint came in to a firm I was working at because we advertised a property as being 'walking distance' to the beach.
Apparently we were discriminating against wheel chair users.

All future ads read '4 houses to beach' or 'two blocks' to beach.

Oh, geez. That's just crazy.

Yeah, I'm with the majority of others in this thread, many excellent points made here. She's the one who'll have to live with the person, I guess that's for her and any prospective roommate to hash out. And if somebody isn't planning on living there, I don't exactly get why they would get offended. That should only be a concern to those who are looking to live in that area.

Angela
 
GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. (RNS) A Michigan woman did not violate fair housing law when she posted a flier at her church seeking a "Christian roommate," federal officials have ruled.

The Fair Housing Act prohibits discrimination on the basis of religion. But officials from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development and the Michigan Department of Civil Rights saw more than one constitutional issue.

"When it comes to a federal law, the individual's constitutional rights trump all," HUD spokeswoman Laura Feldman said. "That's the highest power."

The case started this summer when someone saw the ad at a local church and anonymously filed a complaint with the Fair Housing Center of West Michigan. That was sent to the Michigan Department of Civil Rights, which handles investigations of fair housing complaints for HUD.

Maurice McGough, deputy regional director for fair housing and equal opportunity in HUD's Chicago office, said they were concerned about the individual's right to freedom of expression, freedom of association and freedom of intimate association, among other issues.

The fact that it was a roommate situation and that the woman posted her ad in a church -- as opposed to a general circulation newspaper, for example -- came into play, HUD officials said.

"We looked at those general protections and, without trying to draw too fine of a distinction between them, we erred on the side of the Constitution," McGough said. "This is the federal government. We have to be (careful) about how we enforce our authority."

Nancy L. Haynes, executive director of the Fair Housing Center of West Michigan, said HUD's determination was based on this specific case.

"It's unique and specific to this case," Haynes said. "It's not that there is some new exception to the law."

The woman, who has not been identified, was represented by the Alliance Defense Fund, a Christian legal group in Scottsdale, Ariz., which sent a letter to the Michigan Department of Civil Rights asking for dismissal.
 
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