Will Obama end Don't Ask Don't Tell? - Page 17 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-20-2011, 03:31 PM   #241
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 07:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post

in 1992 DTDA was a moderate compromise for Bill Clinton.
He paid a huge price for bungling it.


that's a bit more accurate.

as of 2010, DADT was a stupid and senseless policy.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2011, 03:50 PM   #242
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 04:54 AM
in 2010 it appears stupid because there are no legit arguments about gay men serving

why, because DADT proved that a person's orientation dose not affect their ability to be good soldiers

so yes, the spot light was put on the phobes, where it belonged.

that could not have happened without DADT, it may seem moderate to you. but a flat out repeal in 92 was not really possible at all
__________________

__________________
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2011, 04:15 PM   #243
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 07:54 AM
Clinton gave us DADT and DOMA.

by the time Obama is done, both should be gone.

what DADT did do was create a climate of fear and ask for officers to report on other officers. it might have been well-intentioned, and i think it was, but i think it did more harm than good. it was less a stepping stone than i think you are giving it credit for.

it also gave people like McCain a "compromise" to point towards as evidence of a "policy that is/was working" that likely delayed us and made us one of the few western nations to actively discriminate against gay men, and women, in the military.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2011, 05:39 PM   #244
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 04:54 AM
Quote:
The bill moved through Congress on a legislative fast track and met with overwhelming approval in both houses of the Republican-controlled Congress, passing by a vote of 85–14 in the Senate[27] and a vote of 342–67 in the House of Representatives.[28] It was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on September 21, 1996.
congress gave us DOMA and if Clinton vetoed it
it would have been resoundingly overridden and made the Democrats the permanent minority party


also if Bush 1 had won in 92 there would have been no gays in the service at all
the policy was to ask and to tell
and not to permit any gays in at all.
__________________
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2011, 07:01 PM   #245
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 01:54 PM
It is striking (in a good way) to look back and recall how differently debates about gays in the military often proceeded back then. I was an undergrad at a university with a large ROTC battalion at the time. Then as now there were all the arguments about unit cohesion, male bonding and so forth, but in the early 90s it was also culturally and socially quite acceptable (and often done) to argue that gays are sick, perverted, psychically weak and unstable men "unfit" for service. Often this was lumped together with sentiments against women in the military (those too have softened considerably, partly due to the Iraq War)--I remember in particular a cartoon poster popular at the time with the theme of "what allowing gays on the battlefield leads to," depicting a long line of severely physically disabled people and...women (all depicted like Betty Boop; tiny frail-looking bimbos save absurdly large breasts and eyelashes) descending on a recruiting center demanding their right to fight. The message was that all this bleeding-heart kowtowing to whiny pansy-ass minorities was castrating our military. I think that said a lot about where American culture was on gender roles at the time, and I'm not sure that backdrop compares easily to other Western countries.

But I think the point about DADT creating a climate of paranoia and ratting on each other is also a strong one. It may well have established some expectations and assumptions that will create problems in their own right moving into the near-term future.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 09:27 AM   #246
has a
 
kramwest1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Not a toliet wall
Posts: 6,939
Local Time: 06:54 AM
So glad to see this go and not see our military surrendering en masse around the globe.
-much in the same way marriages have not instantly fallen apart where same-sex marriage has been legalized.

__________________
Bread & Circuses
kramwest1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 11:08 AM   #247
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,994
Local Time: 07:54 AM
abc.com

By MARTHA RADDATZ (@martharaddatz)
Sept. 21, 2011

The young U.S. soldier who took the end of the military's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy to share his experience of coming out to his father via YouTube said he now feels comfortable.

"It feels great. It's nice not having to look over your shoulder or worry about who you are talking to, Phillips told ABC News the day after "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" was officially repealed. "I never thought I'd be so comfortable with it. It's very supportive. Everybody's been so great."

Phillips, a 21-year-old airman stationed at the Ramstein Air Base in Germany, sat alone in front of a camera Tuesday, and under his YouTube handle "AreYouSurprised," called his father in Alabama to tell him that he was gay. In the clip, Phillips said it was "the hardest thing that gay guys will ever have to say.

"You promise you'll always love me? Period?" Phillips asked his father, his voice shaking. He took a beat, and then said it: "Dad, I'm gay. I always have been. I've known for … forever."

Describing how his heart was "beating like crazy," Phillips told his father that he did not want to tell him over the phone, but wasn't sure when he would see him again and didn't want him to find out any other way.

"I still love you son," his father was heard saying through the phone line. "It doesn't change our relationship -- and I always will, no matter what, all right? You are my son, and I am very proud of you."

For Phillips, even showing his face had taken months. He began his journey of coming out last April, posting anonymous YouTube videos while deployed near the Persian Gulf, seeking advice and support.

"I just want to share my journey and struggles with you," Phillips said in a clip posted in April. "I know there are a lot of people that will benefit from this. I don't want to sound selfish, but I made this for me -- so people can help me out … and say 'so when are you going to take the next step?'"

On Twitter, Phillips had described himself as a "military member in the closet, using social media to build up the courage to come out to family, girlfriend, friends and co-workers."

Now that "Don't Ask Don't Tell" has been repealed, Phillips, like many other enlisted men and women, can at last reveal his face, and cannot officially tell his fellow airman and commanding officers the truth. He told ABC News that he is happy that he has inspired others. He also said that now the whole family knows that he is gay.

As for Phillips' father, he told ABC News that he was not exactly thrilled that his son put the clip on YouTube -- but reiterated once again that he loves his son, and always will.

Telling my dad that I am gay-LIVE - YouTube
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 04:50 PM   #248
Blue Crack Supplier
 
dazzledbylight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: in the sound dancing - w Bono & Edge :D
Posts: 33,002
Local Time: 07:54 AM
^^^^^^^^^^
*sniffles*

so many stories like this....

it's a Beautiful day!

Good luck to all our officially coming out soldiers and other Arm Forces people!
__________________
dazzledbylight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 07:00 PM   #249
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Canadiens1131's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,363
Local Time: 08:54 AM
Good to see DADT repealed.

Amazing the paranoia among straight men of roving bands of gay barbarians, stopping by to anally gang-rape you at the first opportunity.

I swear, straight men are more obsessed with anal sex than gay men probably are.
__________________
Canadiens1131 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2011, 02:34 PM   #250
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,994
Local Time: 07:54 AM
Maybe some of them just think they're irresistibly hot. And well of course gay men have no self control or selective taste.
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 06:59 PM   #251
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 04:54 AM
one can either put this under, too little, too late or better late, than never

Cain: I Should've Defended Gay Soldier From Boos At Debate | Fox News


Quote:
Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain said Sunday that he should not have stayed silent after the audience at a GOP debate booed a gay soldier serving in Iraq.

The Georgia businessman told ABC's "This Week" that it would have been "appropriate" for him to have defended the soldier. None of the candidates on stage at the Sept. 22 forum responded to the boos.

"In retrospect, because of the controversy it has created and because of the different interpretations that it could have had, yes, that probably -- that would have been appropriate," Cain said, when asked if he should have asked the audience to respect the soldier.

Read more: Cain: I Should've Defended Gay Soldier From Boos At Debate | Fox News


Separately, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said that the GOP candidates at the debate should have defended the soldier. "The fact is we should honor every man and woman who is serving in the military and should in no way treat them with anything but the highest regard," he told CBS' "Face the Nation."

McCain added that the GOP candidates may have been thinking about how to respond to the soldier's question rather than paying attention to the booing. "I would bet that every Republican on that stage did not agree with that kind of behavior," he said.

Read more: Cain: I Should've Defended Gay Soldier From Boos At Debate | Fox News
__________________
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 07:18 PM   #252
has a
 
kramwest1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Not a toliet wall
Posts: 6,939
Local Time: 06:54 AM
He should've defended my pizza from the Noid.
__________________
Bread & Circuses
kramwest1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 07:32 PM   #253
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 07:54 AM
oh, wait. i thought the candidates couldn't hear the boo's?

but this:

Quote:
"In retrospect, because of the controversy it has created and because of the different interpretations that it could have had, yes, that probably -- that would have been appropriate," Cain said, when asked if he should have asked the audience to respect the soldier.
is a POS apology. it's not one.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 07:57 PM   #254
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Canadiens1131's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,363
Local Time: 08:54 AM
So has the military fallen apart yet due to all the gayness now going on?
__________________
Canadiens1131 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2011, 10:47 AM   #255
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,994
Local Time: 07:54 AM
So it's only because of the controversy and the "different interpretations" that it, um, could have had. Not because it was simply the right thing to do?
__________________

__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com