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Old 12-19-2010, 05:19 AM   #211
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Glad we got on the same page.
That's one of the reasons I love this forum.....
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Old 12-19-2010, 06:12 PM   #212
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I'm very sorry about the repealing of this policy.
I also have reservations about the repeal of the policy, albeit for different reasons.
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Old 12-19-2010, 11:55 PM   #213
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I'm glad the truth got past to a Fox News watcher...

Free Your Mind does work
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Old 12-20-2010, 04:05 AM   #214
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^ I hope that was intended as a lighthearted joke, but it sounds pretty patronizing to me.



This is kinda interesting--the Department of Defense has posted their implementation manual for DADT repeal on their website. Much of it is standard, bone-dry HR policy prose, but "Appendix D" (pp. 70-83) containing FAQs and hypothetical problem scenarios is worth a glance for anyone interested in how the military goes about this kind of thing.

http://www.defense.gov/home/features...ure-hires).pdf
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Old 12-20-2010, 05:21 AM   #215
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^ I hope that was intended as a lighthearted joke, but it sounds pretty patronizing to me.
That's ok Yolland....I know it was meant as a joke.....

(*hugs BVS*)
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Old 12-20-2010, 05:24 AM   #216
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I'm glad the truth got past to a Fox News watcher...

Free Your Mind does work
It is precisely because I'm a Fox News watcher that the truth gets past to me....because they always tell me the truth.



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Old 12-20-2010, 07:04 AM   #217
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because they always tell me the truth.
Sorry, but that simply isn't true. A recent study shows that viewers of Fox news actually tend to be more misinformed than viewers of other networks.

Fox and MSNBC Misinformed Some Viewers, Study Says - NYTimes.com
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Old 12-20-2010, 11:01 AM   #218
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Finally

I believe in the men and women in our military and that they can and will behave in a professional manner. If someone can serve with you and potentially save your life and/or give his or her life what the hell difference does it make whether he or she is gay or straight?

If anyone is going to abuse a gay soldier then THEY don't deserve to be in our military. After all when you serve you are taking an oath to protect all US citizens, not just straight ones.
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Old 12-20-2010, 04:28 PM   #219
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Louis CK has this comedy bit about how straight men have this very constant, real fear of being anally raped at all times.

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Old 12-20-2010, 08:03 PM   #220
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Finally

I believe in the men and women in our military and that they can and will behave in a professional manner. If someone can serve with you and potentially save your life and/or give his or her life what the hell difference does it make whether he or she is gay or straight?

If anyone is going to abuse a gay soldier then THEY don't deserve to be in our military. After all when you serve you are taking an oath to protect all US citizens, not just straight ones.
Well said. Soldiers, airmen, sailors, coast guard, & marines; they are all professionals. DADT was actually a good thing for 1993, all things considered. I was in the army at the time and it was a pretty big deal. But we've come a long way since then. We have the internet, phones that can play videos, cars that drive themselves, Tv's that can hang on your wall and also project in 3-D. Oh yeah, we've also got a black president.

I guess my point is that 1993 was, in some ways, a long time ago. An entire generation of people have grown up with a new outlook on life. Thank goodness people are evolving and putting the boogeyman behind them. Without DADT in 1993 we'd never have the chance to repeal it in 2010.
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Old 12-20-2010, 10:46 PM   #221
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i guess principal skinner can't get out the army by making a pass at his commanding officer anymore.
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Old 12-20-2010, 10:58 PM   #222
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Done and done, and I mean done.
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:43 PM   #223
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methinks that his thinking will have totally evolved sometime after January of 2013 ...

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Well, no doubt I think a pivotal moment. And I know that so many people who voted for you, LGBT folks who voted for you, did so because they believe that you were a fierce supporter of equality. Given what you’ve just said, Mr. President, do you think it’s time that gays and lesbians should be entitled to full marriage rights?

Well, I spoke about this recently with some bloggers who were here ...

Mr. Joe Sudbay.

Yes, and Joe asked me the same question. And since I've been making a lot of news over the last several weeks, I’m not going to make more news today. The sentiment I expressed then is still where I am — which is, like a lot of people, I’m wrestling with this. My attitudes are evolving on this. I have always firmly believed in having a robust civil union that provides the rights and benefits under the law that marriage does. I’ve wrestled with the fact that marriage traditionally has had a different connotation. But I also have a lot of very close friends who are married gay or lesbian couples.

And squaring that circle is something that I have not done yet, but I’m continually asking myself this question, and I do think that — I will make this observation, that I notice there is a big generational difference. When you talk to people who are in their 20s, they don’t understand what the holdup is on this, regardless of their own sexual orientation. And obviously when you talk to older folks, then there’s greater resistance.

And so this is an issue that I’m still wrestling with, others are still wrestling with. What I know is that at minimum, a baseline is that there has to be a strong, robust civil union available to all gay and lesbian couples.

Can you imagine a time when you would get there? I mean, you say “evolving,” and that sort of assumes that you get somewhere. Can you imagine a time of getting there?


I'm going to stick with my answer. [Laughter]


[...]


So I want to continue to look for ways administratively, even if we’re not able to get something through the House of Representatives or the Senate, that advances the causes of equality.

With respect to the courts and heightened scrutiny, I think that if you look at where Justice [Anthony] Kennedy is moving, the kind of rational review that he applied in the Texas case was one that feels right to me and says that, even if he was calling it “rational review,” is one that recognizes that certain groups may be vulnerable to stereotypes, certain groups may be subject to discrimination, and that the court’s job historically is to pay attention to that.

And so I’m not going to engage in — I’m not going to put my constitutional lawyer hat on now, partly because I’m president and I’ve got to be careful about my role in the three branches of government here. But what I will say is that I think that the courts historically have played a critical role in making sure that all Americans are protected under the law. And there are certain groups that are in need of that protection; the court needs to make sure it’s there for them.

[...]

Right. Will you use your bully pulpit to lobby for things like that?


Yes, well ...

Because we didn't hear from you much on ENDA. We didn't hear from you much on DOMA.

Well, that's because we were focusing on “don’t ask, don’t tell.”

OK.

And I’ve got a few other things on my plate.

I’ve heard of some of those.

Yes, exactly. So Congress is a complicated place with 535 people that you have to deal with in order to get anything done. And my belief was when I first came in, and it continues to be, that by getting “don’t ask, don’t tell” done, we sent a clear message about the direction, the trajectory of this country in favor of equality for LGBT persons. The next step I think would be legislatively to look at issues like DOMA and ENDA. And I’m going to continue to ...

But I think people ...

... strongly support them.

I think people wonder what can happen since legislatively that’s probably not going to happen.

I understand, Kerry. But, Kerry, I’m trying to answer your question, and you keep on coming back at me.

OK, sorry.

So what I’m saying is that we’re probably not going — realistically, we’re probably not going to get those done in the next two years unless we see a substantial shift in attitudes within the Republican caucus.

As I said, though, that outside of legislative circles, attitudes are changing rapidly. They're changing in our culture. They’re changing in our workplaces. One of the most important things I can do as president is to continually speak out about why it’s important to treat everyone as our brothers and sisters, as fellow Americans, as citizens.

And looking for constant opportunities to do that I think is going to be critically important because that helps set the tone and changes the ground beneath the feet of legislators so that they start feeling like, gosh, maybe we are behind the times here and we need to start moving forward. And so you chip away at these attitudes. It also continues to require effective advocacy from groups on the outside.

So I guess my general answer to your question is when it comes to legislation, it took us two years to get “don’t ask, don’t tell” done. I know that there are a whole bunch of folks who thought we could have gotten it done in two months. There were people who thought with a stroke of a pen it could get done. That, in fact, was not the case. But it got done.

And I’m confident that these other issues will get done. But what they require is a systematic strategy and constant pressure and a continuing change in attitudes. And as I said, there are things that we can continue to do administratively that I think will send a message that the federal government, as an employer, is going to constantly look for opportunities to make sure that we’re eliminating discrimination.

What about not defending DOMA?

As I said before, I have a whole bunch of really smart lawyers who are looking at a whole range of options. My preference wherever possible is to get things done legislatively because I think it — it gains a legitimacy, even among people who don’t like the change, that is valuable.

So with “don’t ask, don’t tell,” I have such great confidence in the effective implementation of this law because it was repealed. We would have gotten to the same place if the court order had made it happen, but I think it would have engendered resistance. So I’m always looking for a way to get it done, if possible, through our elected representatives. That may not be possible in DOMA’s case. That's something that I think we have to strategize on over the next several months.

Obama: "Prepared to Implement" | News Features | The Advocate


the whole interview is worth a read. i love reading Obama in long form.
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Old 12-22-2010, 03:51 PM   #224
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sorry, one more thing:

YouTube - Rep. Barney Frank On The "Radical Homosexual Agenda"
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Old 12-22-2010, 04:58 PM   #225
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That Barney Frank clip is full of awesome.
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