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Old 11-29-2010, 07:56 AM   #61
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What's wrong with you? Seriously, get a grip.

The only thing there so far that caught me by surprise was H.Clinton wanting to collect biometric data from Ban Ki-moon.

What I don't get is what makes you so angry. Your prime minister not keeping his promises? Hardly a surprise. That you can tell even from inner-state politics. Mossad having interests taking down the Iranian regime? The time spent debating Iranian nuclear power? Egypt having common interests with Israel regarding the condition in Gaza but having to scorn us to the public eye to keep their own interests with the Arab world?

There's nothing there about Israel that you wouldn't have figured out from reading the weekly commentary in the newspapers. Calm down.
Hi Sarit,

I'm sorry, but I'm very angry about this.

Julian Assange is like someone who's robbing a bank - even though nobody is seriously hurt during the crime, it doesn't negate the fact that a crime WAS committed - and he's committing robbery.
It doesn't matter a bit whether the information is harmful or known or not - we'll only know this as time goes by - the fact is that he obtained this information by an illegal act of treachery and there's no doubt that he's nothing more than a cyber-thug.

Moreover, it sickens me that the media is even reporting about this - because it makes every news organization a party to this crime - just as if Assange had robbed a bank and shared his spoils with his partners.

It is fruit of the poison tree - like evidence found outside of a search warrant - it's illegal.

And who the hell does he think he is anyway? Has he suddenly become the world's watchdog? How dare he release classified material that can have severe ramifications for other people?

I make no bones about this - I severely dislike this guy.
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Old 11-29-2010, 08:35 AM   #62
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AchtungBono, little scary there mate.

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Moreover, it sickens me that the media is even reporting about this - because it makes every news organization a party to this crime - just as if Assange had robbed a bank and shared his spoils with his partners.
The media's job is to report on the facts that are out there, not what the government wants the media to report on. If your attitude is different then you were either brought up in a police state or have very worrying attitudes towards freedom of the press.

~

I like to think long-term, way beyond Assange or WikiLeaks. They are actually doing the U.S. and intelligence community a service by leaking this stuff. You can bet there will be a massive reevaluation of how information is handled in the U.S. and international communities because of this.

Governments are far behind the internet age, and when their dirty laundry is aired like this for all to see, you can bet heads will roll internally to get their protocals updated.
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Old 11-29-2010, 08:51 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1131 View Post
AchtungBono, little scary there mate.



The media's job is to report on the facts that are out there, not what the government wants the media to report on. If your attitude is different then you were either brought up in a police state or have very worrying attitudes towards freedom of the press.

~

I like to think long-term, way beyond Assange or WikiLeaks. They are actually doing the U.S. and intelligence community a service by leaking this stuff. You can bet there will be a massive reevaluation of how information is handled in the U.S. and international communities because of this.

Governments are far behind the internet age, and when their dirty laundry is aired like this for all to see, you can bet heads will roll internally to get their protocals updated.
Hello Canadiens,

This has absolutely nothing to do with freedom of the press.
No one has the right to leak state secrets and it's the medias job to safeguard democracy and not be accomplices to treason.

Freedom of the press is not freedom to commit treason and I believe that any journalist who shares information obtained illegally is a disgrace to his profession.

If I were a journalist, I wouldn't touch this story with a 10-foot pole.
I'd probably lose my readership but I would maintain my dignity and journalistic integrity.
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Old 11-29-2010, 09:37 AM   #64
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i don't know if we can actually do something to wikileaks themselves other than just call them names, but the soldier who leaked all of these classified files should be held as a spy and charged with treason.
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Old 11-29-2010, 10:25 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by AchtungBono View Post
Moreover, it sickens me that the media is even reporting about this - because it makes every news organization a party to this crime -
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1131 View Post
The media's job is to report on the facts that are out there, not what the government wants the media to report on.
That's just it, if the military and government viewed this as a genuine threat, there would easily be a media blackout. Any information of any real consequence will not be released.

If there actually is any game-changing information that sways public opinion for action of one type or another, it is likely intended.

Julian Assange as some wiley, truth-avenging, public menace seems ludicrous.


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Governments are far behind the internet age, and when their dirty laundry is aired like this for all to see, you can bet heads will roll internally to get their protocals updated.
Isn't it more likely that the internet will be more heavily regulated and policed?
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:42 AM   #66
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Hi Sarit,

I'm sorry, but I'm very angry about this.

Julian Assange is like someone who's robbing a bank - even though nobody is seriously hurt during the crime, it doesn't negate the fact that a crime WAS committed - and he's committing robbery.
It doesn't matter a bit whether the information is harmful or known or not - we'll only know this as time goes by - the fact is that he obtained this information by an illegal act of treachery and there's no doubt that he's nothing more than a cyber-thug.

Moreover, it sickens me that the media is even reporting about this - because it makes every news organization a party to this crime - just as if Assange had robbed a bank and shared his spoils with his partners.

It is fruit of the poison tree - like evidence found outside of a search warrant - it's illegal.

And who the hell does he think he is anyway? Has he suddenly become the world's watchdog? How dare he release classified material that can have severe ramifications for other people?

I make no bones about this - I severely dislike this guy.

What treachery? He's not a US citizen. I really wouldn't think that someone who's nothing more than a cyber-thug would put himself at risk the way he did.

Having said that, it is worth looking a bit more into who supports him with wikileaks. I'd be happy to see papers not only from western countries (to the best of my knowledge these are the only documents that were leaked – this time and previously). How about documents from China or Russia? These would surely put him to a much greater risk than now, but would also put at ease the feeling that he might have a hidden agenda other than just informing the public.
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Old 11-29-2010, 12:52 PM   #67
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i don't think we can go after wikileaks, nor should we. julian assange is a jackass, no doubt, and releasing this material shows a complete lack of journalistic integrity... but it just opens up a can of worms that we don't want to go down.

as much as i hate the modern media... we certainly wouldn't want to shut down the new york times for reporting on an issue that was previously confidential and classified.

no, i think the issue is two fold...

1, the person who did the leaking should be held for treason, with a very public trial, to discourage anyone else who feels like they may want to do the same thing.

2. the security that held these documents needs to be upgraded big time. i understand that people in these positions with access to this information are operating on a level of trust, but come on... he just downloaded shit onto a lady gaga CD and nobody knew? even shitty companies like the one i work for keep track of their employees activities on the computer. this is the US government. that material never should have been allowed to have been gotten out.


the one positive, if there is one, from this shit being leaked so easily is that it makes those wackjob conspiracy theorists who think the WTC was brought down by a massive government conspiracy involving thermite paint and jesse ventura's boa even stupider than they previously looked, which is hard, because they looked pretty fucking stupid already. they can't keep this shit secret... how the hell are they gonna keep things like that secret.
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Old 11-29-2010, 02:56 PM   #68
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Bradley Manning's going to jail for an awful long time for breaching secured info, but let's tamp down on the cries of treason.

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Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
Blowing up the term "levying War" to include "revelation of awkward gossip" sounds like it demeans what the truly treasonous have done.
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Old 11-29-2010, 03:30 PM   #69
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^ Not to mention, it wasn't another country he passed the information on to (well, and there wouldn't seem to be two witnesses, either). If he's successfully charged with anything, it will almost certainly be the unlawful downloading of classified data and sharing it with an unauthorized party, under military law.
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Old 11-29-2010, 06:40 PM   #70
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Bradley Manning's going to jail for an awful long time for breaching secured info, but let's tamp down on the cries of treason.



Blowing up the term "levying War" to include "revelation of awkward gossip" sounds like it demeans what the truly treasonous have done.
no. i think he should be tried with treason.

he stole sensitive, classified information that, yes, could put american lives in danger, both directly and indirectly.

they charged robert hanssen with treason, they can charge manning with treason. perhaps they can receive the same plea bargain and share the same jail cell as they rot in hell.

the information is readily available to anyone who wants to read it, enemies and friends alike. i make no difference between doing this and stealing it to sell directly to one enemy.
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Old 11-29-2010, 06:50 PM   #71
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Hi Sarit,

I'm sorry, but I'm very angry about this.

Julian Assange is like someone who's robbing a bank - even though nobody is seriously hurt during the crime, it doesn't negate the fact that a crime WAS committed - and he's committing robbery.
It doesn't matter a bit whether the information is harmful or known or not - we'll only know this as time goes by - the fact is that he obtained this information by an illegal act of treachery and there's no doubt that he's nothing more than a cyber-thug.

Moreover, it sickens me that the media is even reporting about this - because it makes every news organization a party to this crime - just as if Assange had robbed a bank and shared his spoils with his partners.

It is fruit of the poison tree - like evidence found outside of a search warrant - it's illegal.

And who the hell does he think he is anyway? Has he suddenly become the world's watchdog? How dare he release classified material that can have severe ramifications for other people?

I make no bones about this - I severely dislike this guy.
The relevations are not particularly damaging to Israel I would have thought. Israel can take a back seat and watch the fireworks (hopefully, only verbal fireworks) kick off as it is revealed that some of the Arab middle eastern countries were just as assertive behind the scenes as Israel has been publicly in calling for action against Iran.

That said, I do see where you are coming from. If they were just exposing war crimes I would suppport them but they are all sorts of diplomatic private conversations being published that were not meant for public consumption, they are also deeply hypocritical as it is only focussed on America and her allies.

The whole thing seems to me to have an anti-Western motivation and Assange needs to decide quite quickly what side is bread is buttered on. Perhaps if he doesn't like our western system in spite of having benefited from it, he should seek asylum in Russia, China or North Korea. He is acting and behaving like an enemy of the West, pure and simple.
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Old 11-29-2010, 09:08 PM   #72
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For AchtungBono:

YouTube - Bill O'Reilly's Talking Points: There Are Traitors In America - 11/29/10
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Old 11-29-2010, 09:16 PM   #73
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So, O'Reilly calls for traitors to be prosecuted under the law, and criticises Obama for saying nothing.

Pretty mild, I would have thought.
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Old 11-29-2010, 09:51 PM   #74
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no. i think he should be tried with treason.

he stole sensitive, classified information that, yes, could put american lives in danger, both directly and indirectly.

they charged robert hanssen with treason, they can charge manning with treason. perhaps they can receive the same plea bargain and share the same jail cell as they rot in hell.
Hanssen was charged with (and convicted of) espionage, not treason. Adam Gadahn is the only American who's been charged with treason in more than 50 years.* I'm guessing Manning can't be charged with espionage (as opposed to his current charge--sharing classified data with an 'unauthorized' party) because the definition of espionage in US law entails descriptions of the nature of the receiving 'entity' which WikiLeaks doesn't fit.


( * A colleague tells me my earlier assumption that only other countries may constitute 'Enemies' within the Constitution's definition of treason is not, per se, correct; the key is that a state of war exists between the US and an 'Enemy,' hence that's the case which would need to be made.)
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Old 11-29-2010, 10:37 PM   #75
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Is WikiLeaks still a menace/Assange still a jackass if the next leak is bankers' documents?
WikiLeaks’ Julian Assange Wants To Spill Your Corporate Secrets - Andy Greenberg - The Firewall - Forbes

WikiLeaks is just the delivery mechanism for leaked information. If it weren't them being a beacon to whistle-blowers, than it would be another website. The attitude governments have towards secret information is decidedly old-fashioned and 20th century, or they are at least letting us, the public, think that's the case.

You've got to ask yourself, "Is the government (or Pentagon) really that dumb? I'd hazard to say no, but then again the Pentagon tried to buy up all the copies of that recent book with classified information that slipped through, as if one copy being out there didn't mean the information was already online, spreading, and out there forever.
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