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Old 12-09-2010, 07:44 AM   #256
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AchtungBono, I think you should have a closer look at what actually has been leaked (so far, at least.) I totally understand the principle, but the reality doesn't cross it. Some are interesting, a lot are embarrassing. Most contain information that is widely known, if not known. But I would say none so far challenge national security, or anyones personal security. And as I said, there is a lot of censorship. They are being careful with specific names and places etc. And it is my understanding that they are being careful with topics/information that could be said to be 'live' or active at the moment (for example, things relating to North Korea) that could actually cause real trouble.
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:19 AM   #257
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Still haven't made my mind up on exactly where I really sit, overall, but the two extreme sides of the argument, as usual, need to sit down and shut up. Julian Assange is not a terrorist who needs to be shot. And indiscriminate public flooding of private government documents is not some holy act ushering in a new age of brilliant transparency.
Nicely put .

What I take from this is that this is something we should really start considering a lot more carefully, living in our technological age that we do. Everyone talks about how cool and exciting all this new technology is, and a lot of it is...but just remember that it can come back to bite you in the ass as well. We throw out all sorts of information into the computers and such, and then we turn around and complain because we don't have any privacy anymore. What exactly did you expect, people?

As for the sex charges, I don't know all the details, so I won't really comment on that. I just got a kick out of a clip I saw of Glenn Beck last night talking about the allegations and calling it "sex by surprise". What exactly that is, I do not know.

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Old 12-09-2010, 11:31 AM   #258
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Top secret documents should remain top secret because there's a REASON they are top secret.
I've come to distrust government's ability to decide what's secret and what's not. Information about deaths in the Iraq War was hidden away, simply for political purposes. That leak spoke volumes to me.
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Old 12-09-2010, 01:17 PM   #259
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Top secret documents should remain top secret because there's a REASON they are top secret.
But the documents published aren´t top secret, merely confidential up to secret noforn. 2,5 million people had access before they were leaked.
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Old 12-09-2010, 03:59 PM   #260
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There's an interesting article in Time magazine about this issue that pretty much speaks to what the above two posters just said. The decision as to what could and couldn't remain secret was delegated out to quite a few people, thus making it harder to decide who to listen to sometimes. And post-9/11, to try and avoid missing important information about things like the possibility of a planned attack again, the government wanted to make sure more people in their line of work had more access to the information so there would be better communication. Which is a good idea, but unfortunately, again, like hiphop said, more access means more chance anyone could see it.

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Old 12-10-2010, 12:23 PM   #261
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Criminals on both sides: Pfizer vs. corrupt Nigerian govt


1. (C) Summary. In an April 2 meeting with the Ambassador, Pfizer lawyers Joe Petrosinelli and Atiba Adams reported that Pfizer and the Kano State government had reached a preliminary settlement on lawsuits arising from medical tests conducted with Trovan (oral antibiotic) on children living in Kano during a meningitis epidemic in 1996. Petrosinelli said Pfizer has agreed to the Kano State Attorney General’s (AG) settlement offer of $75 million, including a $10 million payment for legal fees, $30 million to the Kano State government, and $35 million for the participants and families. According to Adams, several final details need to be worked out on the mechanism for payment. Pfizer strongly recommends setting up a $35 million trust fund for the participants to be administered by a neutral third party and for the $30 million for the Kano State government to be used for improving health care in the state. Pfizer underscored that the Nigerian representatives wanted lump sum checks and that Pfizer is concerned with potential transparency issues. The next step is a meeting between high-level Pfizer officials and Nigerian side at a neutral location to work out the final details. End Summary.

2. (SBU) On April 2 Pfizer lawyers Joe Petrosinelli and Atiba Adams and Pfizer Nigeria Country Director Enrico Liggeri met with the Ambassador and EconDep to discuss the status of settlement negotiations. Four lawsuits were brought against Pfizer stemming from medical tests with the oral antibiotic Trovan conducted on children living in Kano during a meningitis epidemic in 1996. In Kano State Court there is one civil suit and one criminal case and in the Federal High Court there is one civil suit and one criminal case. Since 2006, Petrosinelli and Adams have been briefing the Mission on the status of the cases.

Settlement Reached
------------------
3. (C) Petrosinelli reported that Pfizer had tentatively reached “an agreement in principle” on the Kano AG’s settlement offer of $75 million. Adams explained that the parties agreed that the $75 million would be broken down as follows - a $10 million payment for legal fees; $30 million to the Kano State government; and $35 million to participants and families. Petrosinelli noted, that Pfizer has worked closely with former Nigerian Head of State Yakubu Gowon and that he has played a positive mediation role with Kano State and the federal government. Petrosinelli said Gowon also spoke with Kano State Governor Mallam Ibrahim Shekarau, who directed the Kano AG to reduce the settlement demand from $150 million to $75 million. Adams reported that Gowon met with President Yar’Adua and convinced him to drop the two federal high court cases against Pfizer. (Comment: In 1966 Gowon became the head of state following a military coup that deposed Major General Johnson Aguiyi-Ironsi who had come to power via an earlier military coup. He was head of state from 1966 to 1975. He now plays an elder statesman role in Nigerian politics. End Comment.)

More Discussions Needed
-----------------------
4. (C) According to Adams, details need to be worked out on the mechanism for payments to the Kano State government and participants because Pfizer is unwilling to give a lump sum payment. Pfizer is concerned with transparency issues and is pushing for a $35 million trust fund for the participants to be administered by a neutral third party and the remaining $30 million to be used for improving health care in Kano state. Pfizer underscored that the Nigerian representatives were pushing for lump sum checks and Pfizer will not agree to that. Pfizer is considering rebuilding Kano’s Infectious Disease Hospital where the trial was conducted and working with health care nongovernmental organizations. Adams suggested that the trust fund for participants be administered by a neutral third party because he expects “additional” participants to come forward after they hear about the settlement. The Ambassador suggested Pfizer work with NGOs already working in Kano State and for Pfizer to consider working with local NGO implementing partners that the USG has used because of their transparency record.

EconDep provided Pfizer a copy of the U.S.-Nigeria Framework for Partnership document as a guide for existing projects and partners in Kano. Petrosinelli explained that the next step was a meeting at a neutral location between high-level Pfizer officials and the Nigerian side to work out final details and conclude the settlement.

Pfizer Exposes Attorney General
-------------------------------
5. (C) In follow up to the April 2 meeting, EconDep met with Pfizer Country Manager Enrico Liggeri in Lagos on April 9. (Note: Liggeri has years of experience in Nigeria because his family operated a business in Lagos from the early 1960s to the late 1980s. He spent most of his childhood in Lagos. End Note.) Liggeri said Pfizer was not happy settling the case, but had come to the conclusion that the $75 million figure was reasonable because the suits had been ongoing for many years costing Pfizer more than $15 million a year in legal and investigative fees. According to Liggeri, Pfizer had hired investigators to uncover corruption links to Federal Attorney General Michael Aondoakaa to expose him and put pressure on him to drop the federal cases. He said Pfizer’s investigators were passing this information to local media, XXXXXXXXXXXX. A series of damaging articles detailing Aondoakaa’s “alleged” corruption ties were published in February and March. Liggeri contended that Pfizer had much more damaging information on Aondoakaa and that Aondoakaa’s cronies were pressuring him to drop the suit for fear of further negative articles.

6. (C) Liggeri commented that the lawsuits were wholly political in nature because the NGO Doctors Without Borders administered Trovan to other children during the 1996 meningitis epidemic and the Nigerian government has taken no action. He underscored that the suit has had a “chilling effect” on international pharmaceutical companies because companies are no longer willing to conduct clinical testing in Nigeria. Liggeri opined that when another outbreak occurs no company will come to Nigeria’s aid.

7. (C) Comment: Pfizer’s image in Nigeria has been damaged due to this ongoing case. Pfizer’s management considers Nigeria a major growth market for its products and having this case behind it will help in efforts to rebuild its image here. Final discussions on the $30 million and $35 million are likely to be tricky because the Nigerian side wants to control who gets the money, not Pfizer. The U.S. Mission will continue to advocate for transparency in settling the case and also note to GON authorities that Pfizer must abide by the U.S. Foreign Corrupt Practices Act and cannot simple hand over large sums of money to state and local officials. Petrosinelli and Adams will get back to the Mission on what further assistance may be needed.
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Old 12-10-2010, 05:32 PM   #262
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Christian Science Monitor, Dec. 10
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Pakistani newspapers carried a series of scoops yesterday sourced to the WikiLeaks document dump of US diplomatic correspondence that would seem to have contained all that an India-hater--no shortage of those in Pakistan--could hope for. One US diplomat is alleged to have determined India was carrying out "genocide" in Kashmir and called in his cable for the US to cut off military exercises with India--an important part of the two countries' deepening strategic relationship--as a sign of displeasure. Another cable is said to have a US diplomat reporting that senior Indian generals are working with Hindu extremists to carry out terror attacks against Muslims living both in India and Pakistan. A third implies that a Pakistani policeman who was planning to blow the whistle on a senior officer's involvement with Hindu militants was assassinated as a consequence. Yet more contained US praise for the head of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence--an organization that many US officials believe supports Taliban attacks on US troops in Afghanistan--and over-the-top criticisms of senior Indian officers as vain incompetents.

There was only one problem. The cables don't exist, according to Britain's Guardian newspaper, one of a handful of news agencies that has access to the whole WikiLeaks dump of more than 250,000 State Department cables. "An extensive search of the WikiLeaks database by the Guardian by date, name and keyword failed to locate any of the incendiary allegations," the paper wrote. Instead what appears to have happened is the first deliberate misinformation campaign built around the WikiLeaks cables, something sure to happen again as the ever-swelling release of documents provides cover for those who have forged documents to peddle.

A number of papers including the Daily Mail and The News of Pakistan carried these reports, which were not signed. The source of the information? A Pakistani news wire called Online News that appears to be closely tied to the government. The News, in apologizing to readers today, leaves the strong impression that the bogus reports were part of a government misinformation campaign.
The paper writes that the Mohsin Baig, the head of Online News, said "he had just returned from Turkey where he had accompanied the prime minister on his official visit and was therefore in the dark about how the story was released."

Another editor at Online News said he didn't know the source of the fake cables and refused to contact an employee who might know the answer. Eventually The News "learnt from our sources that the story was dubious and may have been planted" and said the story first appeared in two local papers "known for their close connections with certain intelligence agencies."

In Pakistan, coverage of the military and intelligence services is tightly controlled by the state. Most Pakistani papers have said little concerning the real cables released by WikiLeaks that contain assessments of Pakistan's military.
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Old 12-10-2010, 10:18 PM   #263
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Criminals on both sides: Pfizer vs. corrupt Nigerian govt


1. (C) Summary. In an April 2 meeting with the Ambassador, Pfizer lawyers Joe Petrosinelli and Atiba Adams reported that Pfizer and the Kano State government had reached a preliminary settlement on lawsuits arising from medical tests conducted with Trovan (oral antibiotic) on children living in Kano during a meningitis epidemic in 1996. Petrosinelli said Pfizer has agreed to the Kano State Attorney General’s (AG) settlement offer of $75 million, including a $10 million payment for legal fees, $30 million to the Kano State government, and $35 million for the participants and families. According to Adams, several final details need to be worked out on the mechanism for payment. Pfizer strongly recommends setting up a $35 million trust fund for the participants to be administered by a neutral third party and for the $30 million for the Kano State government to be used for improving health care in the state. Pfizer underscored that the Nigerian representatives wanted lump sum checks and that Pfizer is concerned with potential transparency issues. The next step is a meeting between high-level Pfizer officials and Nigerian side at a neutral location to work out the final details. End Summary.

2. (SBU) On April 2 Pfizer lawyers Joe Petrosinelli and Atiba Adams and Pfizer Nigeria Country Director Enrico Liggeri met with the Ambassador and EconDep to discuss the status of settlement negotiations. Four lawsuits were brought against Pfizer stemming from medical tests with the oral antibiotic Trovan conducted on children living in Kano during a meningitis epidemic in 1996. In Kano State Court there is one civil suit and one criminal case and in the Federal High Court there is one civil suit and one criminal case. Since 2006, Petrosinelli and Adams have been briefing the Mission on the status of the cases.

Settlement Reached
------------------
3. (C) Petrosinelli reported that Pfizer had tentatively reached “an agreement in principle” on the Kano AG’s settlement offer of $75 million. Adams explained that the parties agreed that the $75 million would be broken down as follows - a $10 million payment for legal fees; $30 million to the Kano State government; and $35 million to participants and families. Petrosinelli noted, that Pfizer has worked closely with former Nigerian Head of State Yakubu Gowon and that he has played a positive mediation role with Kano State and the federal government. Petrosinelli said Gowon also spoke with Kano State Governor Mallam Ibrahim Shekarau, who directed the Kano AG to reduce the settlement demand from $150 million to $75 million. Adams reported that Gowon met with President Yar’Adua and convinced him to drop the two federal high court cases against Pfizer. (Comment: In 1966 Gowon became the head of state following a military coup that deposed Major General Johnson Aguiyi-Ironsi who had come to power via an earlier military coup. He was head of state from 1966 to 1975. He now plays an elder statesman role in Nigerian politics. End Comment.)

More Discussions Needed
-----------------------
4. (C) According to Adams, details need to be worked out on the mechanism for payments to the Kano State government and participants because Pfizer is unwilling to give a lump sum payment. Pfizer is concerned with transparency issues and is pushing for a $35 million trust fund for the participants to be administered by a neutral third party and the remaining $30 million to be used for improving health care in Kano state. Pfizer underscored that the Nigerian representatives were pushing for lump sum checks and Pfizer will not agree to that. Pfizer is considering rebuilding Kano’s Infectious Disease Hospital where the trial was conducted and working with health care nongovernmental organizations. Adams suggested that the trust fund for participants be administered by a neutral third party because he expects “additional” participants to come forward after they hear about the settlement. The Ambassador suggested Pfizer work with NGOs already working in Kano State and for Pfizer to consider working with local NGO implementing partners that the USG has used because of their transparency record.

EconDep provided Pfizer a copy of the U.S.-Nigeria Framework for Partnership document as a guide for existing projects and partners in Kano. Petrosinelli explained that the next step was a meeting at a neutral location between high-level Pfizer officials and the Nigerian side to work out final details and conclude the settlement.

Pfizer Exposes Attorney General
-------------------------------
5. (C) In follow up to the April 2 meeting, EconDep met with Pfizer Country Manager Enrico Liggeri in Lagos on April 9. (Note: Liggeri has years of experience in Nigeria because his family operated a business in Lagos from the early 1960s to the late 1980s. He spent most of his childhood in Lagos. End Note.) Liggeri said Pfizer was not happy settling the case, but had come to the conclusion that the $75 million figure was reasonable because the suits had been ongoing for many years costing Pfizer more than $15 million a year in legal and investigative fees. According to Liggeri, Pfizer had hired investigators to uncover corruption links to Federal Attorney General Michael Aondoakaa to expose him and put pressure on him to drop the federal cases. He said Pfizer’s investigators were passing this information to local media, XXXXXXXXXXXX. A series of damaging articles detailing Aondoakaa’s “alleged” corruption ties were published in February and March. Liggeri contended that Pfizer had much more damaging information on Aondoakaa and that Aondoakaa’s cronies were pressuring him to drop the suit for fear of further negative articles.

6. (C) Liggeri commented that the lawsuits were wholly political in nature because the NGO Doctors Without Borders administered Trovan to other children during the 1996 meningitis epidemic and the Nigerian government has taken no action. He underscored that the suit has had a “chilling effect” on international pharmaceutical companies because companies are no longer willing to conduct clinical testing in Nigeria. Liggeri opined that when another outbreak occurs no company will come to Nigeria’s aid.

7. (C) Comment: Pfizer’s image in Nigeria has been damaged due to this ongoing case. Pfizer’s management considers Nigeria a major growth market for its products and having this case behind it will help in efforts to rebuild its image here. Final discussions on the $30 million and $35 million are likely to be tricky because the Nigerian side wants to control who gets the money, not Pfizer. The U.S. Mission will continue to advocate for transparency in settling the case and also note to GON authorities that Pfizer must abide by the U.S. Foreign Corrupt Practices Act and cannot simple hand over large sums of money to state and local officials. Petrosinelli and Adams will get back to the Mission on what further assistance may be needed.
Pfizer should be extremely proud of the great work they are doing to help poor people in Africa. This one company has done hundreds times more for Africa than any amount of leftist handwringing, faux sanctimonious Christian charity or hectoring Geldof concerts ever will in a million years.

They are a great example of free market capitalism in action - innovative, entrepreneurial, future guided and research oriented - seriously, more power to 'em.

What we in the West would describe as 'bribes' paid to officials in Nigeria are simply a cost of doing business in that country - no more, no less. It is important to respect different cultures in the business world.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:39 AM   #264
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Pfizer should be extremely proud of the great work they are doing to help poor people in Africa. This one company has done hundreds times more for Africa than any amount of leftist handwringing, faux sanctimonious Christian charity or hectoring Geldof concerts ever will in a million years.

They are a great example of free market capitalism in action - innovative, entrepreneurial, future guided and research oriented - seriously, more power to 'em.

What we in the West would describe as 'bribes' paid to officials in Nigeria are simply a cost of doing business in that country - no more, no less. It is important to respect different cultures in the business world.
The effects of leftist handwringing and Geldof concerts are debatable, agreed. Anyway, I´d like to hear from you what it is Pfizer is doing so great. The company tested the untested medication Trovan with 100 children and used Ceftriaxone with another 100 children. 6 out of 100 children died on Trovan, 5 children with Ceftriaxone. Dozens of children were left disabled, with brain damage or paralyzed. Pfizer did not ask the parents of the children before testing, they did not have any approval from parents or Nigerian authorities.

All that apart what makes the Kano incident very serious is that the test was carried out even when animal testing had indicated that Trovan might cause significant side effects in children such as joint disease abnormal cartilage growth a disease resulting in bone deformation and liver damage.

Trovan went on the market in 1998 and quickly became one of the most prescribed antibiotics in the United States, selling more than $160 million the first year. But there were soon reports of liver damage, and the F.D.A. recommended in 1999 that Trovan be used only for severely ill patients in institutional settings. Use on children has not been approved.

Did Pfizer have good enough clinical evidence that Trovan is safe and effective in children with meningitis? No. They were gambling with lives, and that’s inherently unethical.

Did Pfizer inform the patients and the parents of children that Trovan was not fully approved? No. They violated laws regarding experimental drugs.

As to the $75million, the original sum was $2billion.

Do you know anyone working in the pharma industry, financeguy? I do.

I´d like to know what case you make for Pfizer - feel free to add examples what oh so great Pfizer has done to help poor people in Africa.

The contrary is the case: patent laws have to be broken to transport AZT and 3TC from Brazil to South Africa, while the original drugs by GlaxoSmithKline and Boehringer Ingelheim cost more than the double.
HTB – South African treatment activists defy patent laws to import generic antiretrovirals from Brazil - one could argue that breaking patent law is a great example for "free market capitalism in action", not the other way round.
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Old 12-11-2010, 12:35 PM   #265
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The company tested the untested medication Trovan with 100 children and used Ceftriaxone with another 100 children. 6 out of 100 children died on Trovan, 5 children with Ceftriaxone. Dozens of children were left disabled, with brain damage or paralyzed. Pfizer did not ask the parents of the children before testing, they did not have any approval from parents or Nigerian authorities.
it was the other way round hiphop, 5 children died with Trovan, and 6 with ceftriaxone (which was the best drug available for meningitis at the time)... the sequelae are those commonly seen with meningitis and are not necessarily attributed to the drugs, and are sadly often just the effects of the illness itself... the main issue with Pfizer was the whole ethical thing re. consent/approval it seems...
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Old 12-11-2010, 02:47 PM   #266
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it was the other way round hiphop, 5 children died with Trovan, and 6 with ceftriaxone (which was the best drug available for meningitis at the time)... the sequelae are those commonly seen with meningitis and are not necessarily attributed to the drugs, and are sadly often just the effects of the illness itself... the main issue with Pfizer was the whole ethical thing re. consent/approval it seems...
Of course the illness is severe. So what. If you had children who were ill, would you like a pharma monster to test new drugs on them without your knowledge? Does that make it any better?

Here are some more news - a fine documentary.

YouTube - WikiRebels - The Documentary (3/4)
YouTube - WikiRebels - The Documentary (1/4)
YouTube - WikiRebels - The Documentary (2/4)
YouTube - WikiRebels - The Documentary (4/4)

The crimes that U.S. soldiers commit in the war they are fighting make me sick. After seeing this, I can´t help but thinking, fuck the United States, go to hell everyone defending this war and your fucking secret services and bastard soldiers who torture and shoot children as part of a computer game.

You know, this makes it pretty obvious why some people burn U.S. flags. I believe in peace, and I won´t engage in any of this behavior. But hey, the fucking U.S. army is a disgrace and shame.

Flame me all you want now, you bastards working in the military & arms industry, believing you are honorable persons defending your fucked up values, which in reality are nothing but torture and killing. I spit on your values and you should be nothing but ashamed to be part of this.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:21 PM   #267
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The crimes that U.S. soldiers commit in the war they are fighting make me sick. After seeing this, I can´t help but thinking, fuck the United States, go to hell everyone defending this war and your fucking secret services and bastard soldiers who torture and shoot children as part of a computer game.

You know, this makes it pretty obvious why some people burn U.S. flags. I believe in peace, and I won´t engage in any of this behavior. But hey, the fucking U.S. army is a disgrace and shame.

Flame me all you want now, you bastards working in the military & arms industry, believing you are honorable persons defending your fucked up values, which in reality are nothing but torture and killing. I spit on your values and you should be nothing but ashamed to be part of this.
Oh shut up, you ignorant little shit.

I've agreed with some of the things you've said in here regarding Wikileaks, but this is way out of line. You're defining an entire group of people by the very worst examples, which is the worst kind of logical fallacy. Are there terrible people and terrible actions in the United States Army? Absolutely. It's undeniable. But that's a minority, which is also undeniable. People joining the Army for good reasons are people who want these behaviors flushed out.

This is akin to saying all Americans are racist, homophobic, Bible beating attention seekers because the Phelps family is in the news a lot. It's idiotic, irresponsible, and offensive.
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Old 12-11-2010, 04:01 PM   #268
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Oh shut up, you ignorant little shit.

I've agreed with some of the things you've said in here regarding Wikileaks, but this is way out of line. You're defining an entire group of people by the very worst examples, which is the worst kind of logical fallacy. Are there terrible people and terrible actions in the United States Army? Absolutely. It's undeniable. But that's a minority, which is also undeniable. People joining the Army for good reasons are people who want these behaviors flushed out.

This is akin to saying all Americans are racist, homophobic, Bible beating attention seekers because the Phelps family is in the news a lot. It's idiotic, irresponsible, and offensive.
I could give a flying fuck about your idiotic comment. A minority!! That´s surely why 100.000 civilians were killed in Iraq, yeah? If there is anything WAY out of line, it´s your comment. Undeniable, it must have been a minority while the majority of the brave soldiers join the army to defend American soil which never was attacked, and to spread democracy throughout the world, by killing journalists and torturing children on their way to democracy!! Undeniable!!

Go on defending the U.S. army, Putzy. Just do me the favor and open your own thread.
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Old 12-11-2010, 04:39 PM   #269
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Another Wikileaks bombshell.
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Old 12-11-2010, 04:54 PM   #270
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Pfan and hiphop, you are both out of line, and your response to pfan's is waaay out of line, hiphop. If you can't make your point without slinging insults, them you should probably just not post. Or wait until you can without the personal attacks.

That being said, the gist of pfan's post is very valid, hiphop. You're painting an entire group as evil because of the actions of the minority. It is exactly akin to calling all Muslims terrorists because of the actions of a few extremists.
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