Why Men Are In Trouble

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Pearl

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- For the first time in history, women are better educated, more ambitious and arguably more successful than men. Now, society has rightly celebrated the ascension of one sex. We said, "You go girl," and they went. We celebrate the ascension of women but what will we do about what appears to be the very real decline of the other sex?
The data does not bode well for men. In 1970, men earned 60% of all college degrees. In 1980, the figure fell to 50%, by 2006 it was 43%. Women now surpass men in college degrees by almost three to two. Women's earnings grew 44% in real dollars from 1970 to 2007, compared with 6% growth for men.
In 1950, 5% of men at the prime working age were unemployed. As of last year, 20% were not working, the highest ever recorded. Men still maintain a majority of the highest paid and most powerful occupations, but women are catching them and will soon be passing them if this trend continues.
The warning signs for men stretch far beyond their wallets. Men are more distant from a family or their children then they have ever been. The out-of-wedlock birthrate is more than 40% in America. In 1960, only 11% of children in the U.S. lived apart from their fathers. In 2010, that share had risen to 27%. Men are also less religious than ever before. According to Gallup polling, 39% of men reported attending church regularly in 2010, compared to 47% of women.
If you don't believe the numbers, just ask young women about men today. You will find them talking about prolonged adolescence and men who refuse to grow up. I've heard too many young women asking, "Where are the decent single men?" There is a maturity deficit among men out there, and men are falling behind.
This decline in founding virtues -- work, marriage, and religion -- has caught the eye of social commentators from all corners. In her seminal article, "The End of Men," Hanna Rosin unearthed the unprecedented role reversal that is taking place today. "Man has been the dominant sex since, well, the dawn of mankind. But for the first time in human history, that is changing—and with shocking speed," writes Rosin. The changes in modern labor -- from backs to brains -- have catapulted women to the top of the work force, leaving men in their dust.


Man's response has been pathetic. Today, 18-to- 34-year-old men spend more time playing video games a day than 12-to- 17-year-old boys. While women are graduating college and finding good jobs, too many men are not going to work, not getting married and not raising families. Women are beginning to take the place of men in many ways. This has led some to ask: do we even need men?
So what's wrong? Increasingly, the messages to boys about what it means to be a man are confusing. The machismo of the street gang calls out with a swagger. Video games, television and music offer dubious lessons to boys who have been abandoned by their fathers. Some coaches and drill sergeants bark, "What kind of man are you?" but don't explain.
Movies are filled with stories of men who refuse to grow up and refuse to take responsibility in relationships. Men, some obsessed with sex, treat women as toys to be discarded when things get complicated. Through all these different and conflicting signals, our boys must decipher what it means to be a man, and for many of them it is harder to figure out.
For boys to become men, they need to be guided through advice, habit, instruction, example and correction. It is true in all ages. Someone once characterized the two essential questions Plato posed as: Who teaches the children, and what do we teach them? Each generation of men and women have an obligation to teach the younger males (and females of course) coming behind them. William Wordsworth said, "What we have loved, others will love, and we will teach them how." When they fail in that obligation, trouble surely follows.
We need to respond to this culture that sends confusing signals to young men, a culture that is agnostic about what it wants men to be, with a clear and achievable notion of manhood.
The Founding Fathers believed, and the evidence still shows, that industriousness, marriage and religion are a very important basis for male empowerment and achievement. We may need to say to a number of our twenty-something men, "Get off the video games five hours a day, get yourself together, get a challenging job and get married." It's time for men to man up.
Why men are in trouble - CNN.com


Reading this reminded me of quite a few guys - not men - I know. Like the article describes, they are not professionally ambitious and are careless towards relationships. It makes me worried about my future, because I would like to be married to a family oriented man who cares about his job. But that is getting rare to find (then again, I live in NYC, the worst place to find a decent man).

This also makes me worried about the future of the male species. I find it sad that the males don't have much ambition and take forever to grow up. When will they?

In an ideal world, I'd like to see men and women live equally and benefit from each other. Key word: ideal.

I'd like to see a honest discussion about this topic. What can we do to change this? Who is to blame? And don't hold back. I'd like to see an honest discussion about male/female relations. But I might be thinking ideally here. :)
 
I think you're getting a bit personal here.

And also, my friends haven't had much luck with NYC guys either.

Maybe I'm generalizing, but I am basing this on mine and friends' experiences.
 
Education takes longer. There are lots of recessions. Women often outnumber men in government jobs so when a recession hits men get hit a little harder until there is a rebound. Women are often cheaper in pay (yes not always) than men.

Women gain as men lose jobs - USATODAY.com

Women have been a growing share of the once heavily male labor force for nearly a century, recording big bumps during epochal events such as the Depression and World War II.

This time, the boost came from a severe recession that has been brutal on male-dominated professions such as construction and manufacturing.

The gender transformation is especially remarkable in local government's 14.6 million-person workforce. Cities, schools, water authorities and other local jurisdictions have cut 86,000 men from payrolls during the recession — while adding 167,000 women, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

"Unemployment among men isn't going to last forever," says University of Chicago economist Casey Mulligan. "People will move from construction and manufacturing to industries that are creating new jobs." Mulligan expects the portion of jobs held by women to peak slightly above 50% this year, then drop below half when the economy recovers and more men find work.

In situations like these it may not be easy for men to control something like a bad economy. I'm sure with a recovery it will return to pre-recession levels though the recovery is still going on since this article.

I also think there is a general aimlessness and also a fear men have of looking at marriage as a trap that leads to divorce. With high divorce rates it's pretty easy to see many men just being cynical about marriage and try to avoid it. It's not only the likes of George Clooney that want to avoid traps. Many men feel it very hard to live up to women's expectations when women are competing for jobs and still harbour an attraction to more powerful men. In unintened observance of other couples there have been lots of signs of women demanding expensive lifestyles that men feel they can't afford. Then the same women compete with men for those same high paying jobs to do just that. I'm sure there are good examples of men doing the same thing in other people's experiences on this forum, but I've seen the pressure on men from women first hand. It's ugly. The divorces, narcissism and shaky relationships is the main reason I'm not married now. Also the private debt in households throughout the western world just adds to the difficulty.

Also I could add that as women get more money and more success they are just more independent than ever before and I'm sure some women don't feel they have to be married forever or at all. Modern Europe has embraced common law relationships in a big way. Seperation is common.

I personally feel that marriage takes work over the long haul and the expectations of both men and women are all fucked up. What is required (as seen in many successful marriages) is a high frustration tolerance from both partners. People who get worked up over "keeping up with the Joneses", and small problems that are self-made, will do worse. Couples who argue well (with logic and less ego) do WAY BETTER than those who "have to be right" even when they are wrong.

If anything I think starting a thread on traits of successful marriages will teach more than tons of people complaining about what they want to see of men and women. I'm sure men would appreciate positive reinforcement of seeing men who are successful and what habits they developed to get there. There are lots of good couples out there that are doing it and men who are mature do exist (though they might be taken already). Sorry :giggle:.

Also I read in a psychology book...

http://www.amazon.com/Owners-Manual-Brain-Applications-Mind-Brain/dp/1885167644

...that there are generally 3 types of people. Those who want one night stands, romance, and long-term marriages. Those who want the long-term marriages have trouble with the romantic types because for a while they can look like long-termers, but when the sizzle fades naturally there's nothing to keep the romantics there. Long-termers have to find long-termers.
 
I honestly think this article is rather harsh. It has unfair generalizations. Sure, there are some men like that, but I also know a lot of wonderful, hardworking, supportive men as well.

I just wanted to add another woman's voice here. Only men have shown up so far!:wink:
 
What alternative universe is the author of that article living in? The US is entering what looks set to be a period of more or less permanent recession, one in which the cosy middle class verities are likely to be stretched well beyond breaking point, and they're worrying about men playing video games!?

No doubt there are plenty of guys (and gals for that matter) who live down to the unambitious stereotype. In some - some - ways, the conventional ideas about ambition may be more trouble than they're worth.
 
I honestly think this article is rather harsh. It has unfair generalizations.



look at the author. and look at the reference to the "Founding Fathers" (hallowed be thy name).

it has an agenda.

that said, i think it's time women started paying for dinner once in a while.

;)
 
too many men are... not getting married and not raising families.

Not only is this an irrelevant statement as it relates to a man's 'success', but it's also hilarious when you realize it means an equal amount of woman are not getting married and raising families. What a pointless and bias article.

Men are also less religious than ever before. According to Gallup polling, 39% of men reported attending church regularly in 2010, compared to 47% of women.

And add this to the list of who-gives-a-shit. Going to church is a measure of success and intelligence? I won't get into my feelings on the latter and muck up this thread :p
 
not getting married and not raising families.
Why is this bad? A guy can be more successful in his life if he focuses more on his career and money-oriented goals than by being in relationships and having kids. In fact, getting married and raising a family can prevent those goals from becoming a reality.
 
Reading this reminded me of quite a few guys - not men - I know. Like the article describes, they are not professionally ambitious and are careless towards relationships. It makes me worried about my future, because I would like to be married to a family oriented man who cares about his job. But that is getting rare to find
FWIW, I often hear comments to this effect from female students of mine (grad and 'nontraditional'-age undergrad ones, mostly). Though I'm not sure how well their situations compare to yours since these tend to be single mothers whose lives revolve around paying the bills, securing the best education they can afford for their kid(s) and trying to stay out of poverty, more than aiming for a particularly high-powered professional career.

To be fairer to Bennett than he perhaps deserves, I imagine one response he'd make to critics of his marriage/fatherhood emphasis is that on the whole men are still producing children at a good enough rate, it's just that too many of them contribute little to their children's lives after that.

I found the article curiously silent about the fact that single motherhood, male unemployment, gender disparities in educational achievement etc. are not evenly distributed socioeconomically.
 
I just felt like doing a seasonal thing for Tishrei (Rosh Hashanah/Yom Kippur/Sukkot). The puke-orange psychedelic shalom shall return shortly...
 
There are some areas where males are at a disadvantage compared to females, such as A level and GCSE results here in the UK where girls have been performing significantly better than boys for a good few years now, so I do believe that engaging boys in education needs to be looked at more closely.

However the idea that we are falling behind when we still dominate most things and a pay-scale that remains heavily distorted in our favour is a bit of a joke. It's true for some professions you wouldn't even think that it would be a factor in such as my own, nursing. Men make up something like 5% of all nurses yet nurse management positions are 40% male and we rise through the ranks at a faster rate in general as well. Not that i'm complaining but it seems odd for such a massively female dominated profession.
 
Why is this bad? A guy can be more successful in his life if he focuses more on his career and money-oriented goals than by being in relationships and having kids. In fact, getting married and raising a family can prevent those goals from becoming a reality.

That's an important point.
 
Yes I would definitely agree that Bill Bennett (if it's the same guy I think it is) has a conservative agenda. I think that's full of many generalities in order to fit that agenda. Not that you couldn't find plenty of specific men who would fit that agenda, but I also think we're all in trouble in many ways.

I also don't think that marriage, family, and career/career ambitions are accurate indicators of maturity or "manning up". These days even more so with the economy the way it is. There are plenty of men who have all of those things but who are still lacking in what that truly means. Plenty of women too in terms of what that means for women.
 
Why is this bad? A guy can be more successful in his life if he focuses more on his career and money-oriented goals than by being in relationships and having kids. In fact, getting married and raising a family can prevent those goals from becoming a reality.

I agree with you because I'm living it. I actually was married once, not for very long because long story short we rushed into it and got it fixed extrmely fast.

I don't want to get married again. I do not want kids. I enjoy my life being single and doing the things I truly love. I am not sorry at all that I don't fit into a traditional family scenario because I don't have to feel sorry.

I have good health, a good job, and from time to time I fall into a relationship that provides some comfort and companionship. When it doesn't work out, it isn't a big deal and I continue on with my life as normal.

Not sure what the future will bring, but why would I care if men are falling behind women? Didn't realize it was a race or competition.
 
I don't see this at all but maybe it is because I have no patience/tolerance for people (man or woman) who are immature and have no direction. I work with all guys (besides my boss who is my dad's age the rest are all within 5 years older or younger than me) and I do not find any of them to be less ambitious or under-educated. I don't really see the career vs. family tangent here either.
 
my fiance' has a higher level of education than i do, and makes more money than i do. high school education simply doesn't have the same pay rate as white color fortune 500 jobs, it appears.

she also was somehow able to find me in new york city, but i digress.

actually... i won't digress. most of her friends are, in fact, still single. and man oh man do i hear about it every single damned time we hang out.

it appears that there just aren't enough high payed lawyers, hedge fund managers, professional athletes and the such around to make these girls happy. :shrug: maybe if they would "lower" themselves to dating someone who doesn't do as well as they do (they all do fairly well for themselves), they'd have better luck. :shrug:

(preemptive note: this isn't meant to be directed towards anyone's own individual situation... just a general statement)
 
actually... i won't digress. most of her friends are, in fact, still single. and man oh man do i hear about it every single damned time we hang out.

it appears that there just aren't enough high payed lawyers, hedge fund managers, professional athletes and the such around to make these girls happy. :shrug: maybe if they would "lower" themselves to dating someone who doesn't do as well as they do (they all do fairly well for themselves), they'd have better luck. :shrug:



omg ... IT'S LIKE WE HAVE THE SAME LIFE! i brunched on Sunday with a few of these ...


on a more serious note, in between the complaining about guys being inadequate, i really do feel terribly about the tremendous pressure these women feel to be married by their early 30s and how they take this as evidence that there is something wrong with them, despite outwards protestations to the contrary.
 
Now just imagine these same type of women and complaining...but instead of NYC, it's freaking Des Moines Iowa. :) haha

Every gal watches Sex and the City and expects that type of lifestyle here. It's tough enough to try and just stand out on your own, but when you've got to compete against women's imagination / fairy tales....next to impossible.
 
It is funny how much where we live affects how we read these things. The stratum of society you guys were talking about basically doesn't even exist where I am.

I suppose it's possible that how we parent boys somehow hasn't overall kept pace with how we parent girls, which obviously has changed a lot over the last several decades, but then William Bennett is not someone I'm looking to for parenting advice, so.
 
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