Why Men Are In Trouble - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-04-2011, 09:48 PM   #1
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Pearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,653
Local Time: 09:31 AM
Why Men Are In Trouble

Quote:
- For the first time in history, women are better educated, more ambitious and arguably more successful than men. Now, society has rightly celebrated the ascension of one sex. We said, "You go girl," and they went. We celebrate the ascension of women but what will we do about what appears to be the very real decline of the other sex?
The data does not bode well for men. In 1970, men earned 60% of all college degrees. In 1980, the figure fell to 50%, by 2006 it was 43%. Women now surpass men in college degrees by almost three to two. Women's earnings grew 44% in real dollars from 1970 to 2007, compared with 6% growth for men.
In 1950, 5% of men at the prime working age were unemployed. As of last year, 20% were not working, the highest ever recorded. Men still maintain a majority of the highest paid and most powerful occupations, but women are catching them and will soon be passing them if this trend continues.
The warning signs for men stretch far beyond their wallets. Men are more distant from a family or their children then they have ever been. The out-of-wedlock birthrate is more than 40% in America. In 1960, only 11% of children in the U.S. lived apart from their fathers. In 2010, that share had risen to 27%. Men are also less religious than ever before. According to Gallup polling, 39% of men reported attending church regularly in 2010, compared to 47% of women.
If you don't believe the numbers, just ask young women about men today. You will find them talking about prolonged adolescence and men who refuse to grow up. I've heard too many young women asking, "Where are the decent single men?" There is a maturity deficit among men out there, and men are falling behind.
This decline in founding virtues -- work, marriage, and religion -- has caught the eye of social commentators from all corners. In her seminal article, "The End of Men," Hanna Rosin unearthed the unprecedented role reversal that is taking place today. "Man has been the dominant sex since, well, the dawn of mankind. But for the first time in human history, that is changing—and with shocking speed," writes Rosin. The changes in modern labor -- from backs to brains -- have catapulted women to the top of the work force, leaving men in their dust.


Man's response has been pathetic. Today, 18-to- 34-year-old men spend more time playing video games a day than 12-to- 17-year-old boys. While women are graduating college and finding good jobs, too many men are not going to work, not getting married and not raising families. Women are beginning to take the place of men in many ways. This has led some to ask: do we even need men?
So what's wrong? Increasingly, the messages to boys about what it means to be a man are confusing. The machismo of the street gang calls out with a swagger. Video games, television and music offer dubious lessons to boys who have been abandoned by their fathers. Some coaches and drill sergeants bark, "What kind of man are you?" but don't explain.
Movies are filled with stories of men who refuse to grow up and refuse to take responsibility in relationships. Men, some obsessed with sex, treat women as toys to be discarded when things get complicated. Through all these different and conflicting signals, our boys must decipher what it means to be a man, and for many of them it is harder to figure out.
For boys to become men, they need to be guided through advice, habit, instruction, example and correction. It is true in all ages. Someone once characterized the two essential questions Plato posed as: Who teaches the children, and what do we teach them? Each generation of men and women have an obligation to teach the younger males (and females of course) coming behind them. William Wordsworth said, "What we have loved, others will love, and we will teach them how." When they fail in that obligation, trouble surely follows.
We need to respond to this culture that sends confusing signals to young men, a culture that is agnostic about what it wants men to be, with a clear and achievable notion of manhood.
The Founding Fathers believed, and the evidence still shows, that industriousness, marriage and religion are a very important basis for male empowerment and achievement. We may need to say to a number of our twenty-something men, "Get off the video games five hours a day, get yourself together, get a challenging job and get married." It's time for men to man up.
Why men are in trouble - CNN.com


Reading this reminded me of quite a few guys - not men - I know. Like the article describes, they are not professionally ambitious and are careless towards relationships. It makes me worried about my future, because I would like to be married to a family oriented man who cares about his job. But that is getting rare to find (then again, I live in NYC, the worst place to find a decent man).

This also makes me worried about the future of the male species. I find it sad that the males don't have much ambition and take forever to grow up. When will they?

In an ideal world, I'd like to see men and women live equally and benefit from each other. Key word: ideal.

I'd like to see a honest discussion about this topic. What can we do to change this? Who is to blame? And don't hold back. I'd like to see an honest discussion about male/female relations. But I might be thinking ideally here.
__________________

__________________
Pearl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 10:15 PM   #2
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl View Post
But that is getting rare to find (then again, I live in NYC, the worst place to find a decent man)
I find this a remarkable statement. Do you have any evidence to back it up?
__________________

__________________
financeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 10:16 PM   #3
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Pearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,653
Local Time: 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by financeguy View Post
I find this a remarkable statement. Do you have any evidence to back it up?
Its based on my experience. So, take it as you will.
__________________
Pearl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 10:20 PM   #4
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl View Post
Its based on my experience. So, take it as you will.
What's the sample size? For example, how many New York men have you dated in the past, say, five years?
__________________
financeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 10:29 PM   #5
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Pearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,653
Local Time: 09:31 AM
I think you're getting a bit personal here.

And also, my friends haven't had much luck with NYC guys either.

Maybe I'm generalizing, but I am basing this on mine and friends' experiences.
__________________
Pearl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 10:48 PM   #6
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
purpleoscar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In right wing paranoia
Posts: 7,597
Local Time: 06:31 AM
Education takes longer. There are lots of recessions. Women often outnumber men in government jobs so when a recession hits men get hit a little harder until there is a rebound. Women are often cheaper in pay (yes not always) than men.

Women gain as men lose jobs - USATODAY.com

Quote:
Women have been a growing share of the once heavily male labor force for nearly a century, recording big bumps during epochal events such as the Depression and World War II.

This time, the boost came from a severe recession that has been brutal on male-dominated professions such as construction and manufacturing.
Quote:
The gender transformation is especially remarkable in local government's 14.6 million-person workforce. Cities, schools, water authorities and other local jurisdictions have cut 86,000 men from payrolls during the recession — while adding 167,000 women, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Quote:
"Unemployment among men isn't going to last forever," says University of Chicago economist Casey Mulligan. "People will move from construction and manufacturing to industries that are creating new jobs." Mulligan expects the portion of jobs held by women to peak slightly above 50% this year, then drop below half when the economy recovers and more men find work.
In situations like these it may not be easy for men to control something like a bad economy. I'm sure with a recovery it will return to pre-recession levels though the recovery is still going on since this article.

I also think there is a general aimlessness and also a fear men have of looking at marriage as a trap that leads to divorce. With high divorce rates it's pretty easy to see many men just being cynical about marriage and try to avoid it. It's not only the likes of George Clooney that want to avoid traps. Many men feel it very hard to live up to women's expectations when women are competing for jobs and still harbour an attraction to more powerful men. In unintened observance of other couples there have been lots of signs of women demanding expensive lifestyles that men feel they can't afford. Then the same women compete with men for those same high paying jobs to do just that. I'm sure there are good examples of men doing the same thing in other people's experiences on this forum, but I've seen the pressure on men from women first hand. It's ugly. The divorces, narcissism and shaky relationships is the main reason I'm not married now. Also the private debt in households throughout the western world just adds to the difficulty.

Also I could add that as women get more money and more success they are just more independent than ever before and I'm sure some women don't feel they have to be married forever or at all. Modern Europe has embraced common law relationships in a big way. Seperation is common.

I personally feel that marriage takes work over the long haul and the expectations of both men and women are all fucked up. What is required (as seen in many successful marriages) is a high frustration tolerance from both partners. People who get worked up over "keeping up with the Joneses", and small problems that are self-made, will do worse. Couples who argue well (with logic and less ego) do WAY BETTER than those who "have to be right" even when they are wrong.

If anything I think starting a thread on traits of successful marriages will teach more than tons of people complaining about what they want to see of men and women. I'm sure men would appreciate positive reinforcement of seeing men who are successful and what habits they developed to get there. There are lots of good couples out there that are doing it and men who are mature do exist (though they might be taken already). Sorry .

Also I read in a psychology book...

http://www.amazon.com/Owners-Manual-.../dp/1885167644

...that there are generally 3 types of people. Those who want one night stands, romance, and long-term marriages. Those who want the long-term marriages have trouble with the romantic types because for a while they can look like long-termers, but when the sizzle fades naturally there's nothing to keep the romantics there. Long-termers have to find long-termers.
__________________
purpleoscar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 11:07 PM   #7
War Child
 
Caleb8844's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 662
Local Time: 07:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl View Post
Why men are in trouble - CNN.com


I'd like to see a honest discussion about this topic. And don't hold back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl View Post
I think you're getting a bit personal here.
__________________
Caleb8844 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 11:15 PM   #8
45:33
 
cobl04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: East Point to Shaolin
Posts: 55,020
Local Time: 12:31 AM
I hate these articles. Just filler pieces when papers have nothing else to run. They mean absolutely nothing.
__________________
cobl04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 11:17 PM   #9
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Pearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,653
Local Time: 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb8844 View Post
When I said don't hold back, I meant say whatever you want about male/female relationships and don't let PC get in the way.
__________________
Pearl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 11:28 PM   #10
ONE
love, blood, life
 
ryancoke71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 14,678
Local Time: 09:31 AM
I honestly think this article is rather harsh. It has unfair generalizations. Sure, there are some men like that, but I also know a lot of wonderful, hardworking, supportive men as well.

I just wanted to add another woman's voice here. Only men have shown up so far!
__________________
ryancoke71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 11:41 PM   #11
Refugee
 
WinnieThePoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: New England
Posts: 2,232
Local Time: 09:31 AM
[QUOTE=Pearl;7370539][URL="http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/04/
In an ideal world, I'd like to see men and women live equally and benefit from each other. Key word: ideal.

QUOTE]

ideal world...... that would be a perfect day ,
__________________
WinnieThePoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 11:48 PM   #12
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Kieran McConville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Auto Dafoe
Posts: 9,600
Local Time: 11:31 PM
What alternative universe is the author of that article living in? The US is entering what looks set to be a period of more or less permanent recession, one in which the cosy middle class verities are likely to be stretched well beyond breaking point, and they're worrying about men playing video games!?

No doubt there are plenty of guys (and gals for that matter) who live down to the unambitious stereotype. In some - some - ways, the conventional ideas about ambition may be more trouble than they're worth.
__________________
Kieran McConville is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2011, 12:07 AM   #13
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryancoke71 View Post
I honestly think this article is rather harsh. It has unfair generalizations.


look at the author. and look at the reference to the "Founding Fathers" (hallowed be thy name).

it has an agenda.

that said, i think it's time women started paying for dinner once in a while.

__________________
Irvine511 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2011, 12:37 AM   #14
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 08:31 AM
Quote:
too many men are... not getting married and not raising families.
Not only is this an irrelevant statement as it relates to a man's 'success', but it's also hilarious when you realize it means an equal amount of woman are not getting married and raising families. What a pointless and bias article.

Quote:
Men are also less religious than ever before. According to Gallup polling, 39% of men reported attending church regularly in 2010, compared to 47% of women.
And add this to the list of who-gives-a-shit. Going to church is a measure of success and intelligence? I won't get into my feelings on the latter and muck up this thread
__________________
Jive Turkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2011, 12:43 AM   #15
War Child
 
Dfit00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 893
Local Time: 09:31 AM
Quote:
not getting married and not raising families.
Why is this bad? A guy can be more successful in his life if he focuses more on his career and money-oriented goals than by being in relationships and having kids. In fact, getting married and raising a family can prevent those goals from becoming a reality.
__________________

__________________
Dfit00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com