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Old 10-05-2011, 05:01 PM   #31
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On the whole I don't think men value marriage and children as highly as women do. Men like to live in the moment, women obsess about the future. The way the male brain works is: if things are going good now (decent job, pay the rent on time, a nice vacation every once in a while) why potentially jeopardise that with lifelong commitments (marriage, mortagage, kids)?
Men also have an advantage in that society views a 40 year old woman who is still single and childless as "passed it" and "over the hill". Whereas a 40 year old bachelor is still very much "eligible" (as long as he has material status). That puts a considerable amount of extra pressure on women to find the "right guy" and "settle down" quickly.
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:19 PM   #32
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Who paid?

we all split the check. at least that part was low drama.
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:20 PM   #33
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but then William Bennett is not someone I'm looking to for parenting advice, so.

he used to harass faculty where i went to school, calling and emailing and demanding to know why we weren't all reading for values only.
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Old 10-05-2011, 07:29 PM   #34
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It is funny how much where we live affects how we read these things. The stratum of society you guys were talking about basically doesn't even exist where I am.
In some ways I am glad of the Irish recession, because a few years ago it was rapidly heading towards the situation that Irvine and Beal are talking about, whereas now cold hard reality has collided with unrealistic expectations (and I include men in this, although for guys, it was more unrealistic expectations about lifestyle/income rather than potential partners' attributes).
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Old 10-05-2011, 08:06 PM   #35
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in some ways, it's good that aspirational male programming is so far-fetched. most men know they aren't ever going to be Indiana Jones, Jack Bauer, or even House.

whereas it seems far more plausible to be Carrie Bradshaw. even for me. or maybe especially for me. though i always thought Samantha got hotter guys.

although the expectation set up by sitcoms and especially advertising reinforces the "men are big children who love football and cars and their wives are their multitasking mothers raising both their husbands and children" really don't help all that much.
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Old 10-05-2011, 08:25 PM   #36
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^ Are that many women like Carrie Bradshaw in real life, though? Not that I have even the faintest notion what that character is like. I don't watch TV so I can't have an "informed" opinion here, but whenever I catch bits of some sitcom while in a waiting room, restaurant or friend's house, my impression always is that pretty much everyone onscreen comes across like a totally phony caricature in terms of gender. Groups of adult female "girlfriends" will be shown talking and behaving more like 12-year-olds at the mall, have way more femme-y/girly-girl affectations and mannerisms than 95% of women actually have in real life, etc., and the same for the men. But I wouldn't really know.
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Old 10-05-2011, 08:29 PM   #37
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I think she is much more of a rounded character than the others in that series, FWIW. She does actual work, is not supermodel good-looking, smokes cigarettes, etc. The others are basically cyphers and/or stereotypes.

I think Friends is a much more evil and fake series, actually. All fake cutie-pie niceness. No-one seems to work, yet they all live in fancy expensive apartments, wear designer casual gear and spend all day yapping and drinking coffee.
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Old 10-05-2011, 08:57 PM   #38
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I think Friends is a much more evil and fake series, actually. All fake cutie-pie niceness. No-one seems to work, yet they all live in fancy expensive apartments, wear designer casual gear and spend all day yapping and drinking coffee.
And that's more than okay with me
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:48 PM   #39
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It is funny how much where we live affects how we read these things. The stratum of society you guys were talking about basically doesn't even exist where I am.
Same. I live in a city of around 100,000 that's quite working class (although there is a burgeoning academic class as well), and I don't know anyone who lays out unreasonably high financial standards for a potential mate beyond "must be self-supporting and not a slacker." That line of thinking is just so beyond anything I'm familiar with. I'm wondering if the high financial expectations in a mate is mostly an urban issue.
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:51 PM   #40
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I think she is much more of a rounded character than the others in that series, FWIW. She does actual work, is not supermodel good-looking, smokes cigarettes, etc. The others are basically cyphers and/or stereotypes.

I think Friends is a much more evil and fake series, actually. All fake cutie-pie niceness. No-one seems to work, yet they all live in fancy expensive apartments, wear designer casual gear and spend all day yapping and drinking coffee.
With the girls' apartment, I think it was acknowledged early in the series that it was a rent controlled apartment passed down to Monica by her grandmother. Not sure what the excuse was for the guys, though.
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Old 10-08-2011, 09:29 PM   #41
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It's time for men to start wearing hats.


And opening the door for the ladies
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Old 10-08-2011, 09:57 PM   #42
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It's time for men to start wearing hats.


And opening the door for the ladies
And smoke unfiltered cigarettes, no doubt.

The standard of dress of young guys these days is appalling. Recently, while watching the world go by in a bar in Paris, I witnessed a young bucko alight from an expensive convertible. To my horror, I espyed that he was clad in prison-style hipster jeans. Apparently it is now a fashionable thing, even in Paris, to wear these horrible things.

I'm very much in favour of returning to traditional standards of dress and decorum. I aim to be at the forefront of a sartorial movement to restore good taste in gentlemens' apparel - and indeed I myself have room for improvement.
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Old 10-08-2011, 10:06 PM   #43
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And smoke unfiltered cigarettes, no doubt.

The standard of dress of young guys these days is appalling. Recently, while watching the world go by in a bar in Paris, I witnessed a young bucko alight from an expensive convertible. To my horror, I espyed that he was clad in prison-style hipster jeans. Apparently it is now a fashionable thing, even in Paris, to wear these horrible things.

I'm very much in favour of returning to traditional standards of dress and decorum.

Yeah, the funny thing about the cigs is that those thinking the filtered or light cigs are less dangerous should take a cue from from some of the films from from the 30's and 40's. Very few of them inhaled. They are smoking those UF's like a fine cigar

And those ladies and gents knew how to dress. Agree
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Old 10-08-2011, 10:15 PM   #44
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Yeah, the funny thing about the cigs is that those thinking the filtered or light cigs are less dangerous should take a cue from from some of the films from from the 30's and 40's. Very few of them inhaled. They are smoking those UF's like a fine cigar

And those ladies and gents knew how to dress. Agree
Indeed, Iron Horse. Cigarettes are inherently a decadent and sensual pleasure, best enjoyed in moderation. I would rather take my chances with one strong cigarette or cigar a day than inhaling the fumes from the disgusting modern chemicals that they place in our processed food.

Those old movie stars you refer to had style, a quality sadly lacking in today's excuse for a society.
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Old 10-09-2011, 12:52 AM   #45
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Yeah, the funny thing about the cigs is that those thinking the filtered or light cigs are less dangerous should take a cue from from some of the films from from the 30's and 40's. Very few of them inhaled. They are smoking those UF's like a fine cigar
The Cigar Police

But at least they looked cool
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