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Old 10-05-2011, 12:45 AM   #16
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And is this charming fella the same William J Bennett?

William Bennett - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Bennett responded that aborting all African-American babies "would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but the crime rate would go down."
'nuff said
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Old 10-05-2011, 01:27 AM   #17
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Reading this reminded me of quite a few guys - not men - I know. Like the article describes, they are not professionally ambitious and are careless towards relationships. It makes me worried about my future, because I would like to be married to a family oriented man who cares about his job. But that is getting rare to find
FWIW, I often hear comments to this effect from female students of mine (grad and 'nontraditional'-age undergrad ones, mostly). Though I'm not sure how well their situations compare to yours since these tend to be single mothers whose lives revolve around paying the bills, securing the best education they can afford for their kid(s) and trying to stay out of poverty, more than aiming for a particularly high-powered professional career.

To be fairer to Bennett than he perhaps deserves, I imagine one response he'd make to critics of his marriage/fatherhood emphasis is that on the whole men are still producing children at a good enough rate, it's just that too many of them contribute little to their children's lives after that.

I found the article curiously silent about the fact that single motherhood, male unemployment, gender disparities in educational achievement etc. are not evenly distributed socioeconomically.
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Old 10-05-2011, 01:53 AM   #18
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You changed your avatar
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:03 AM   #19
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I just felt like doing a seasonal thing for Tishrei (Rosh Hashanah/Yom Kippur/Sukkot). The puke-orange psychedelic shalom shall return shortly...
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:58 AM   #20
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There are some areas where males are at a disadvantage compared to females, such as A level and GCSE results here in the UK where girls have been performing significantly better than boys for a good few years now, so I do believe that engaging boys in education needs to be looked at more closely.

However the idea that we are falling behind when we still dominate most things and a pay-scale that remains heavily distorted in our favour is a bit of a joke. It's true for some professions you wouldn't even think that it would be a factor in such as my own, nursing. Men make up something like 5% of all nurses yet nurse management positions are 40% male and we rise through the ranks at a faster rate in general as well. Not that i'm complaining but it seems odd for such a massively female dominated profession.
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:50 AM   #21
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Why is this bad? A guy can be more successful in his life if he focuses more on his career and money-oriented goals than by being in relationships and having kids. In fact, getting married and raising a family can prevent those goals from becoming a reality.
That's an important point.
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Old 10-05-2011, 11:19 AM   #22
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Yes I would definitely agree that Bill Bennett (if it's the same guy I think it is) has a conservative agenda. I think that's full of many generalities in order to fit that agenda. Not that you couldn't find plenty of specific men who would fit that agenda, but I also think we're all in trouble in many ways.

I also don't think that marriage, family, and career/career ambitions are accurate indicators of maturity or "manning up". These days even more so with the economy the way it is. There are plenty of men who have all of those things but who are still lacking in what that truly means. Plenty of women too in terms of what that means for women.
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:05 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Dfit00 View Post
Why is this bad? A guy can be more successful in his life if he focuses more on his career and money-oriented goals than by being in relationships and having kids. In fact, getting married and raising a family can prevent those goals from becoming a reality.
I agree with you because I'm living it. I actually was married once, not for very long because long story short we rushed into it and got it fixed extrmely fast.

I don't want to get married again. I do not want kids. I enjoy my life being single and doing the things I truly love. I am not sorry at all that I don't fit into a traditional family scenario because I don't have to feel sorry.

I have good health, a good job, and from time to time I fall into a relationship that provides some comfort and companionship. When it doesn't work out, it isn't a big deal and I continue on with my life as normal.

Not sure what the future will bring, but why would I care if men are falling behind women? Didn't realize it was a race or competition.
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:43 PM   #24
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I don't see this at all but maybe it is because I have no patience/tolerance for people (man or woman) who are immature and have no direction. I work with all guys (besides my boss who is my dad's age the rest are all within 5 years older or younger than me) and I do not find any of them to be less ambitious or under-educated. I don't really see the career vs. family tangent here either.
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Old 10-05-2011, 01:12 PM   #25
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that said, i think it's time women started paying for dinner once in a while.


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Old 10-05-2011, 02:32 PM   #26
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my fiance' has a higher level of education than i do, and makes more money than i do. high school education simply doesn't have the same pay rate as white color fortune 500 jobs, it appears.

she also was somehow able to find me in new york city, but i digress.

actually... i won't digress. most of her friends are, in fact, still single. and man oh man do i hear about it every single damned time we hang out.

it appears that there just aren't enough high payed lawyers, hedge fund managers, professional athletes and the such around to make these girls happy. maybe if they would "lower" themselves to dating someone who doesn't do as well as they do (they all do fairly well for themselves), they'd have better luck.

(preemptive note: this isn't meant to be directed towards anyone's own individual situation... just a general statement)
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:23 PM   #27
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actually... i won't digress. most of her friends are, in fact, still single. and man oh man do i hear about it every single damned time we hang out.

it appears that there just aren't enough high payed lawyers, hedge fund managers, professional athletes and the such around to make these girls happy. maybe if they would "lower" themselves to dating someone who doesn't do as well as they do (they all do fairly well for themselves), they'd have better luck.


omg ... IT'S LIKE WE HAVE THE SAME LIFE! i brunched on Sunday with a few of these ...


on a more serious note, in between the complaining about guys being inadequate, i really do feel terribly about the tremendous pressure these women feel to be married by their early 30s and how they take this as evidence that there is something wrong with them, despite outwards protestations to the contrary.
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:54 PM   #28
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Now just imagine these same type of women and complaining...but instead of NYC, it's freaking Des Moines Iowa. haha

Every gal watches Sex and the City and expects that type of lifestyle here. It's tough enough to try and just stand out on your own, but when you've got to compete against women's imagination / fairy tales....next to impossible.
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:59 PM   #29
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It is funny how much where we live affects how we read these things. The stratum of society you guys were talking about basically doesn't even exist where I am.

I suppose it's possible that how we parent boys somehow hasn't overall kept pace with how we parent girls, which obviously has changed a lot over the last several decades, but then William Bennett is not someone I'm looking to for parenting advice, so.
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:02 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511

omg ... IT'S LIKE WE HAVE THE SAME LIFE! i brunched on Sunday with a few of these ...
Who paid?
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