Why-Because I'm A Black Man In America?

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And here I thought I was being compared to King Leonidas, until I read the list of attributes and saw that clearly this was a paean to diamond. :(

Ah, I'm just a kinder gentler windbag is all.
 
Don Lemon, the reporter/anchor for CNN, interviewed an African American officer who was there with Sgt. Crowley at the press conference. She said she had voted for Obama but she wouldn't again just because of his "stupidity" comment. Maybe after time and her initial anger passes she would reconsider, but I can't imagine saying that just because the President made an ill advised comment (which I'm sure if he was truly honest with himself and put his ego aside he would take back and not in the half hearted way that he did, just in general maybe a word other than "stupidly" would have been a better word choice given his stature..and would not have escalated the situation) such as that about a fellow officer. But that's the way some police officers operate-in some cases supporting their fellow officers no matter what, and it goes way beyond a voting decision. It's that defensiveness and that kind of reaction to any sort of criticism and the way they stick together no matter what that creates certain public perceptions.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-winkler/obama-was-right-about-the_b_244888.html

Under Massachusetts law, which the police officer was supposedly enforcing, yelling at a police officer is not illegal.

There are clear decisions of the Massachusetts courts holding that a person who berates an officer, even during an arrest, is not guilty of disorderly conduct. And yet that is exactly what Gates was arrested for.

The Massachusetts statute defining "disorderly conduct" used to have a provision that made it illegal to make "unreasonable noise or offensively coarse utterance, gesture or display," or to address "abusive language to any person present." Yet the courts have interpreted that provision to violate the Massachusetts Constitution's guarantee of freedom of speech. So police cannot lawfully arrest a person for hurling abusive language at an officer.

In several cases, the courts in Massachusetts have considered whether a person is guilty of disorderly conduct for verbally abusing a police officer. In Commonwealth v. Lopiano, a 2004 decision, an appeals court held it was not disorderly conduct for a person who angrily yelled at an officer that his civil rights were being violated. In Commonwealth v. Mallahan, a decision rendered last year, an appeals court held that a person who launched into an angry, profanity-laced tirade against a police officer in front of spectators could not be convicted of disorderly conduct.

So Massachusetts law clearly provides that Gates did not commit disorderly conduct.
 
So the woman who called in is now insisting that the police report is inaccurate and that she never told the police officer that she saw black men with backpacks.

Interesting.

And the 911 call is out there for all of us to hear, confirming her story. That means the officer wasn't truthful when filling out his report of the incident. Gasp. When you lie about one aspect of a situation to put your actions into a more positive light, it's not much of a stretch to think that you could be lying about others. Shocking, I tell you.
 
I think the police report is talking about what she allegedly said when the police got there-after the 911 call. That doesn't mean the report is accurate about what she said then-just that the call wouldn't be involved. After the call it's her word against the officers' words.
 
From my understanding though, Gates had entered the house either before or as she made the call (she admits as much when she says that she didn't see him), and then he didn't come outside again until after the police arrived. And also, if she had changed her story, why would she change from the men having luggage, which they clearly did, to backpacks? That doesn't make sense.
 
From my understanding though, Gates had entered the house either before or as she made the call (she admits as much when she says that she didn't see him), and then he didn't come outside again until after the police arrived. And also, if she had changed her story, why would she change from the men having luggage, which they clearly did, to backpacks? That doesn't make sense.

I know what you're saying. It sure seems to me that a police report should be a true and accurate account of all statements. To the point where you can't change "luggage" to "backpacks". Because even a detail such as that could make someone question the accuracy of the entire report.
 
Exactly. And if you look at potential motivations, she had nothing to lose or gain by telling the truth. The officer did.

What I gathered from the call is that she was reluctantly involved to begin with, that she only called to fulfill the request of a concerned (read: possibly busybody) neighbour. I kind of feel sorry for her. It seems that the officers involved and perhaps the department in releasing the information initially tried to make it seem as if her call was racially-based - "look! Neighbours suspected that something unsavoury was occurring because it was two black men, so it's not unusual that we would, either."
 
And two people with backpacks would be more likely to be attempting a B and E than two people with luggage. Only the most brazen (or clueless) criminal would use luggage in the daytime. Then again she said luggage on the call so what would be the point-unless they were going to say that she said she was wrong in the call and meant to say backpacks? I can't say what they were doing in this case but starting out with an accurate report is a good idea.

I know from personal experience that police officers can and do lie to cover their own misdeeds. Doesn't mean I assume it happens in every case, or in this case. But it happens, let alone fitting reports to any agenda or whatever you want to call it.
 
apparently Obama was not blind sided at the news conference

In fact, when aides helped the president prepare for his news conference July 22, they told him the incident had become a prominent story and could come up as a question. So Obama was ready. But he escalated the situation with one word he would quickly come to regret: "stupidly."

Gibbs said: "I think if he would do it again, he would change a word."


Gates arrest a delicate matter to hash out over beer - Los Angeles Times
 
cnnc.jpg


Obama has lost her vote.

<>
 
I am sure you are right, he has been desperately trying to get out of this situation he carelessly put himself in.

he has lost much of his support among moderates and independents

that is where the 2008 election was decided.


I have always said 'race issues' are at the top of the list of our problems in America.

There are many, many blatant, indisputable examples of race bias, racism and race intolerance.

This never was a clear cut example of any of those.
 
Sometimes I feel completely invisible. Oh well.

Hey I picked up on it long before Drudge and he just jumped on it today. Maybe we have some sort of psychic connection :hyper:
 
I am not saying it will fail.


But the other two need the officer more than he needs them.


What does the officer need to do?

Apologize for all of the racial profiling of the past that he has not been a part of? Apologize for supporting and leading a program to prevent it?

Will Gates apologize for bringing 'race' into the issue when it was not introduced by the officers on the scene?








hint:
could the teachable moment be to not blow things out of porportion and blame parties for actions done by others in the past ?
 
I doubt Obama has his heart set on achieving some kind of dramatic resolution, let alone forcing one. Just a situation where the two of them can sit down and look each other in the eye again, in a less charged environment. And a PR gesture on his part towards defusing some of the 'ratcheting up' of tensions which he already acknowledged his role in.

But I don't envy him the task, because obviously they're both still sticking pretty hard to their own versions of the incident, including the diametrically opposed points. Maybe there are ways to avoid directly touching on those particular aspects, but I doubt it.
 
In an interview with CNN's Larry King, former Secretary of State Colin Powell suggested that both the Cambridge police and Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates were to blame for last week's incident.

Saying he has suffered from racial profiling "many times," the general suggested that Gates could have handled the situation differently. He urged young people confronted by the police to "cooperate. Don't make the situation more difficult."

Powell later added, "Do you get angry? Yes. Do you manifest that anger? You protest, you try to get things fixed, but it's kind of a better course of action to take it easy and don't let your anger make the current situation worse.


The full exchange on Gates:

KING: You're saying Gates was wrong?


POWELL: I'm saying that Skip, perhaps in this instance, might have waited a while, come outside, talked to the officer, and that might have been the end of it. I think he should have reflected on whether or not this was the time to make that big a deal. But, he's just home from China, just home from New York. All he wanted to do was get to bed.

His door was jammed. And so he was in a mood where...

KING: What about those who say he brings the whole history into that body of a black movement?


(CROSSTALK)

POWELL: That may well be the case. But I still think that it might well have been resolved in a different manner if we didn't have this verbal altercation between the two of them.

So, my first teaching point for young people, especially, not for Dr. Gates, that the young people, especially, is, when the police are looking into something, and if you're involved in it in one way or another, cooperate. Don't make the situation more difficult. And I think in this case, the situation was made more difficult.

And you could part on the part of the Cambridge Police Department. Once they felt they had to bring Dr. Gates out of the house and to handcuff him, I would have thought at that point some adult supervision would have stepped in and said, OK, look, it is his house. Come on, let's not take this any further. Take the handcuffs off. Goodnight, Dr. Gates.

And on racial profiling:

KING: Were you ever racially profiled?


POWELL: Yes, many times.

KING: And didn't you ever bring anger to it?

POWELL: Of course. But, you know, anger is best controlled. And sure I got mad.

I got mad when I, as a national security adviser to the president of the United States, I went down to meet somebody at Reagan National Airport and nobody recognized -- nobody thought I could possibly be the national security adviser to the president. I was just a black guy at Reagan National Airport.

And it was only when I went up to the counter and said, "Is my guest here who's waiting for me?" did somebody say, "Oh, you're General Powell." It was inconceivable to him that a black guy could be the national security adviser.

KING: How do you deal with things like that?

POWELL: You just suck it up. What are you going to do? It was a teaching point for him. Yes, I'm the national security adviser, I'm black. And watch, I can do the job. So, you have this kind of -- there is no African-American in this country who has not been exposed to this kind of situation.

Do you get angry? Yes. Do you manifest that anger? You protest, you try to get things fixed, but it's kind of a better course of action to take it easy and don't let your anger make the current situation worse.
 
So, my first teaching point for young people, especially, not for Dr. Gates, that the young people, especially, is, when the police are looking into something, and if you're involved in it in one way or another, cooperate. Don't make the situation more difficult. And I think in this case, the situation was made more difficult.

And you could part on the part of the Cambridge Police Department. Once they felt they had to bring Dr. Gates out of the house and to handcuff him, I would have thought at that point some adult supervision would have stepped in and said, OK, look, it is his house. Come on, let's not take this any further. Take the handcuffs off. Goodnight, Dr. Gates.
:up:
 
I don't doubt for one minute that Gates has not suffered (probably hundreds of times) indignities solely because he is Black American.

If he was jogging through the park early in the morning and some person called and said a black man is running fast he must have committed a crime go pick him up and they did, that would be racial profiling.

The officer taking the call is supposed to say. Ain't no crime to be black and running. Did you see him do anything illegal?


To taint the officer as some kind of a problem officer is not justified, unless there is something I am missing. I can not see what the teachable moment is for the officer.

I have been threatened with 'arrest' for challenging the authority of law enforcement. I stepped down and took what I considered to be the wrong attitude from the officer.
I realized their job was a little harder than my job. That was me being requested to be a little less me until they left.
 
And you could part on the part of the Cambridge Police Department. Once they felt they had to bring Dr. Gates out of the house and to handcuff him, I would have thought at that point some adult supervision would have stepped in and said, OK, look, it is his house. Come on, let's not take this any further. Take the handcuffs off. Goodnight, Dr. Gates.



This is the part where they want to make the law enforcement officers, wrong.
and I believe there were more than just the one guy there. Only one name goes on the arrest report, as the arresting officer. So everyone is focusing on him.
Well, as I have said I have been told by law enforcement to step down or face arrest. I have seen this dozens of times. Once the warned person blows through that warning the officers goes through with the cuffs and the arrest.
If not, the warned person feels emboldened and continues to escalate because the officer has no credibility.
Gates was in controll of his destiny. He chose to challenge and suffered the consequences.

Powells advice is the same as mine. When someone has a gun and the power to arrest you do not challenge them. If you believe you are wronged file a complaint, later.
 
The 'teachable moment' for the officer would be that it's A) unprofessional and B) almost certainly unconstitutional as well to arrest someone merely for mouthing off at you. It doesn't mean that he's a "problem officer" in general; each situation is unique, and there may've been something about this one which caused him to let himself go over the edge in a way that's extremely unlikely for him to repeat.
 
I don't doubt for one minute that Gates has not suffered (probably hundreds of times) indignities solely because he is Black American.

If he was jogging through the park early in the morning and some person called and said a black man is running fast he must have committed a crime go pick him up and they did, that would be racial profiling.

The officer taking the call is supposed to say. Ain't no crime to be black and running. Did you see him do anything illegal?


To taint the officer as some kind of a problem officer is not justified, unless there is something I am missing. I can not see what the teachable moment is for the officer.

I have been threatened with 'arrest' for challenging the authority of law enforcement. I stepped down and took what I considered to be the wrong attitude from the officer.
I realized their job was a little harder than my job. That was me being requested to be a little less me until they left.


Well put. Unfortunately the "acted stupidly" comment will be very influential on many young black americans who may already have a negative bias toward cops.
 
I am not a big fan of mouthing off to Police... concept
what is the point, how can they do their job without the support of the public?


And there are disorderly conduct laws, some people refer them as 'contempt of cop' laws.

I do realize if the Police drive through certain parts of town,
youths on street corners may yell at them. I would not expect them to stop and arrest them. I did expect them to arrest me when they told me if I continued they would.


Police have the power and right "to arrest".
Not everyone arrested is guilty of any thing. After the arrest they are arraigned and it is determined if they will be charged with a crime

being arrested and not charged is a hassle I would prefer to avoid.
at the price of not mouthing off to police.


The fact that the Police came because a neighbor saw two men trying to force a door open should have led Mr. Gates to be more understanding.
Again unless there is something I am missing. If defference has to be given to one side, right now I have to go with the Police.

It is not like he was driving in a 'white neighborhood' and they pulled him over for being black.
 
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