Why-Because I'm A Black Man In America?

[diamond]

Were you there?



?

I don't think anyone here could be "certain" without being there.
Sort of goes without saying, doesn't it?

No.

Based on all the facts, police reports, witnesses is how I came to my conclusion. I stated this days ago, and I think you're a bit late to the party.

There are some here that haven't budged an inch in their initial conclusions as more evidence has surfaced.

Gates=

-a subscriber of Malcom X's views over MLK's
-a million dollar contributor to Obama's presidential bid.
-has referred to Whites as "whiteys'" publicly in the past.
-has racial issues and demonstrated those views with the indignant way he treated Officer Crowely.

Crowely=

-a decent police officer with a great track record in dealing with racial issues
taught classes to younger police officers against profiling
-has a African American boss that picked him to teach the class on profiling
-gave CPR to Reggie Lewis a nationally renowned African American athlete who died, and Reggie Lewis' family lauded his efforts before all of this came to pass.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...ficer_at_eye_of_storm_says_he_wont_apologize/
-has a multi racial police force that have stood behind him, including officers at the scene, and not ONE has said Crowely was out of line.
-If Crowely were out of order at least some officers would have broke rank.

So, based on the character of both men, and that we weren't there and we don't know everything that Gates did I'm ok with the fact that he was arrested. Just because Gates didn't punch Crowely doesn’t mean he wasn't disorderly.

It's sad that so many of the respondents can't free their minds and think outside of their own self imposed boxes, but look for legal loopholes, refer in legalese terms. Reminds me of Bill Clinton's infamous “Depends on the meaning of what the word 'is' is."

The honest question that needs to be asked by some is would Gates have treated Crowely the same indignant, disorderly way if Crowely were black? The answer is no, and there would have been no arrest.



<>

 

[VintagePunk]

So you're judging the events of that day based on your perception of each man's reported character. That's a fair, bias-free way to go about things!

Just because Gates didn't punch Crowely doesn’t mean he wasn't disorderly.

Read the report! Then read the legal definition of "disorderly conduct" in the state of Mass! From what was written in the report by the officer himself, Gates doesn't meet the legal definition of being "disorderly." Sheesh. It's really not difficult to see.

 

[diamond]

Past public conduct and attitudes could come up as evidence in a civil case.

 

[diamond]

So you're judging the events of that day based on your perception of each man's reported character. That's a fair, bias-free way to go about things!




Read the report! Then read the legal definition of "disorderly conduct" in the state of Mass! From what was written in the report by the officer himself, Gates doesn't meet the legal definition of being "disorderly." Sheesh. It's really not difficult to see.

legalese

plus we don't know if everything is in the report.

 

[VintagePunk]

Past public conduct and attitudes could come up as evidence in a civil case.

I don't know if you're that simple, or if you're being deliberately obtuse, but that doesn't matter in judging the events OF THAT DAY from a legal standpoint.

legalese

plus we don't know if everything is in the report.

Do you even know what a police report is? It's supposed to be a detailed account of everything that happened, it's the main source of information about the events. If things were left out, the officer isn't doing his job.


This is like arguing with a 5 year old. I'm done.

 

[BoMac]

 

[UberBeaver]

Gates=

-a subscriber of Malcom X's views over MLK's
-a million dollar contributor to Obama's presidential bid.
-has referred to Whites as "whiteys'" publicly in the past.
-has racial issues and demonstrated those views with the indignant way he treated Officer Crowely.

<>

AND he's black. People seem to keep conveniently forgetting to mention that....

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

AND he's black. People seem to keep conveniently forgetting to mention that....

I had COMPLETELY forgotten that! Thank you for reminding me of such an obscure fact!

 

[UberBeaver]

I had COMPLETELY forgotten that! Thank you for reminding me of such an obscure fact!

You can't really have a conversation of his guilt or innocence without that fact being presented, right?

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

You can't really have a conversation of his guilt or innocence without that fact being presented, right?

it is the most important factor when you think about it...

 

[UberBeaver]

it is the most important factor when you think about it...

In many US States, it's the ONLY factor.

 

[BVS]

I don't know if you're that simple, or if you're being deliberately obtuse, but that doesn't matter in judging the events OF THAT DAY from a legal standpoint.



Do you even know what a police report is? It's supposed to be a detailed account of everything that happened, it's the main source of information about the events. If things were left out, the officer isn't doing his job.


This is like arguing with a 5 year old. I'm done.

This summarizes Diamond's argument.

 

[anitram]

I don't know if you're that simple, or if you're being deliberately obtuse, but that doesn't matter in judging the events OF THAT DAY from a legal standpoint.

VP, please. Diamond here is a legal expert, continuing to exhibit sharp legal thinking.

For example, he stated that:

So based on the statute Gates was guilty of 'disorderly conduct' because on his behavior in a legal sense.

Consequently, when you told him to read the actual wording of the statute in order to determine the definition of "disorderly" he replied with:

legalese

plus we don't know if everything is in the report.

See what I mean?

 

[diamond]

 

[VintagePunk]

VP, please. Diamond here is a legal expert, continuing to exhibit sharp legal thinking.

For example, he stated that:



Consequently, when you told him to read the actual wording of the statute in order to determine the definition of "disorderly" he replied with:



See what I mean?

Ha! I'm far from a legal expert, but even I'm able to look at the relevant facts and follow the chain of logic from A to B to C.

 

[Jive Turkey]

 

[VintagePunk]

^ Okay, that made me laugh. A lot.

 

[diamond]

 

[Bono's shades]

You don't know that for certain, because you weren't there.
.This cop was brave enough to enforce the law when a man broke it<>

Yeah, Crowley was soooo brave, arresting an old guy who needs a cane to walk.

 

[bigjohn2441]

maybe all policemen should be black, then nobody could ever bitch about race (except white people, but they are the majority so who cares?)

 

[yolland]

Gates=

-had a mother who was a fan of Malcolm X, which he's written about many times
-he's black
-contributed $4600 to Obama's presidential bid
-besides, he's black
-referred to "whitey now sit[ting] in judgment of me" in his 1970 college application essay, in the context of reflecting on his experiences growing up during the 50s and 60s in a segregated W.Va. town; again, something he's written about many times
-plus, he's black
-has racial issues and demonstrated them by marrying a white woman, his wife for 15 years and the mother of his two children


Crowely (sic)=

-lied in his report about his conversation in front of the house with the 911 caller, unless we're going to automatically brand anyone who contradicts Crowley's version a liar
-once attempted CPR on a dying black man, which some of Crowley's defenders apparently consider an important proof of his total lack of "issues" with black people, which says a lot (about them, not him)
-taught police classes on avoiding racial profiling for several years, which might predispose a white person to become especially indignant when accused of racism by a confrontational nonwhite suspect (see what I did there?)
--isn't a well-known public figure with dozens of books, articles and documentaries to his name, which leaves propagandists with lots less to cherry-pick from



So, based on the fact that none of us really know shit about the character of either man, and that we weren't there and we don't know everything that either Gates or Crowley did, I'm ok with sticking to the evidence which would actually be considered in court had the charges not been dropped. It's sad that so many of the respondents can't free their minds and think outside of their own self imposed boxes, but look for legal loopholes, refer in legalese terms. And then in the summertime, such extreme summertime, about a hundred and fifty degrees hotter than just some months ago, than just some months from now, with fireweed blooming along the frost heaves and merciless rivers that are rushing and carving and reminding us that here, Mother Nature wins; it is as throughout all Alaska, that big wild good life teeming along the road that is north to the future.

 

[Jive Turkey]

And then in the summertime, such extreme summertime, about a hundred and fifty degrees hotter than just some months ago, than just some months from now, with fireweed blooming along the frost heaves and merciless rivers that are rushing and carving and reminding us that here, Mother Nature wins; it is as throughout all Alaska, that big wild good life teeming along the road that is north to the future.

I lol'd

 

[Diemen]

And then in the summertime, such extreme summertime, about a hundred and fifty degrees hotter than just some months ago, than just some months from now, with fireweed blooming along the frost heaves and merciless rivers that are rushing and carving and reminding us that here, Mother Nature wins; it is as throughout all Alaska, that big wild good life teeming along the road that is north to the future.

Made all the funnier because it's not at all what I expected from you.

 

[No spoken words]

The best part is that it was unexpected both because of the poster, and because of the post itself....did not see that coming on myriad levels. And oh how I laughed.

 

[VintagePunk]

Gates=

-contributed $4600 to Obama's presidential bid

Why that's nearly a million dollars!

So, based on the fact that none of us really know shit about the character of either man, and that we weren't there and we don't know everything that either Gates or Crowley did, I'm ok with sticking to the evidence which would actually be considered in court had the charges not been dropped. It's sad that so many of the respondents can't free their minds and think outside of their own self imposed boxes, but look for legal loopholes, refer in legalese terms. And then in the summertime, such extreme summertime, about a hundred and fifty degrees hotter than just some months ago, than just some months from now, with fireweed blooming along the frost heaves and merciless rivers that are rushing and carving and reminding us that here, Mother Nature wins; it is as throughout all Alaska, that big wild good life teeming along the road that is north to the future.

Bravo! A yolland fan club is under serious consideration.

 

[diamond]

Gates=

t (see what I did there?)

And then in the summertime, such extreme summertime, about a hundred and fifty degrees hotter than just some months ago, than just some months from now, with fireweed blooming along the frost heaves and merciless rivers that are rushing and carving and reminding us that here, Mother Nature wins; it is as throughout all Alaska, that big wild good life teeming along the road that is north to the future.

yes, you quoted Palin's poetry without her permission and pointed out that Gates did something Clarence Thomas had done years earlier, but if it were Clarence Thomas that lived in Cambridge, Obama and Gates wouldn't had an opportunities to make an asses of themselves.


next case.
<>

 

[No spoken words]

Palin's poetry

 

[VintagePunk]

At this point I think it's more William Shatner's poetry, but that's just splitting hairs.

 

[maycocksean]

i knew i would be the one that was wrong

where in my post did i say i had an attitude? i guess my polite "may i see your id badge please?" is too outrageous. i dont feel one way or another about it, just saying thats the way it is.

The actual words of your post were fine. . .Attitude is not about the words you say, it's about how you say them.

Look, I don't know you. . .maybe you're a nice guy who is just misunderstood. All, I know is that I'm a guy who normally doesn't get pissy--I'm pretty sure most on this forum would back me up on that--but when I read your post, I found myself getting annoyed. It's an attitude, a tone, you bring and I was simply saying that if the black folks picked up a similar attitude in your "may I see your id badge please" that I did from your post, then I understand why they react the way they do.

 

[Bluer White]

Look, I don't know you. . .maybe you're a nice guy who is just misunderstood. All, I know is that I'm a guy who normally doesn't get pissy--I'm pretty sure most on this forum would back me up on that--but when I read your post, I found myself getting annoyed. It's an attitude, a tone, you bring and I was simply saying that if the black folks picked up a similar attitude in your "may I see your id badge please" that I did from your post, then I understand why they react the way they do.

Congratulations bigjohn !

You have the same effect on people that Officer Crowley does