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Old 07-25-2009, 09:56 PM   #91
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Welcome to Diamond in FYM
Which is so predictable really. He pokes and provokes (deliberately is my guess) and all the usual suspects erupt into over-the-top outrage regardless of the actual topic at hand.

Rinse lather repeat. For years.

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Old 07-25-2009, 09:59 PM   #92
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They may be releasing the recorded 911 tapes of the event and that could clear up who was a hot head or not.

The cop is known to be a seasoned professional who teaches classes against racial profiling to other police officers.

The cop was not the "hot head".

<>
You have absolutely no way of knowing he was not the hothead, and for you to pretend otherwise is ridiculous. I'm well aware of what he teaches, but that doesn't mean that his demeanor is always perfect when he's on patrol.

Further, wouldn't the 911 call just be the person reporting the incident? Police don't communicate via 911, that number is for the public to call for emergencies.
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Old 07-25-2009, 10:12 PM   #93
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No, the difference is that I read the police report, listened to the officers who were there and also the professor's version; all witnesses at scene, and based my decision on the preponderance of the evidence released thus far;
So answer me this, diamond. The police were called out to investigate a possible burglary, correct? They verified that the identity of the "suspect" was in fact the owner of the house, correct? So the 'case,' so to speak, was closed at that point, correct? Even if Gates was extremely hot headed and verbally abusive to the police officer, what reason did the police officer have to arrest the man on his own lawn and take him down to the station?

Because he mouthed off? Is that really sufficient reason? Yolland already gave us a very good synopsis of where "disorderly conduct" or "disturbing the peace" charges originated from. It seems pretty clear that Gates wasn't about to incite a riot or start a fight. Why arrest him? Judging from all the reports, he did not obstruct the officer's path or prevent him from leaving.

Why should mouthing off to a police officer result in being arrested in a situation where there is no danger of inciting public violence?
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Old 07-25-2009, 10:21 PM   #94
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I think diamond meant the police radio transmissions, not the 911 recording, though those would at 'best' confirm what most people already assume to be true--namely that yep, Gates was being verbally rude as hell. Neither Gates nor his lawyer have accused the officer of verbally harassing him; the closest thing to that would be Gates' recollection that he asked the officer multiple times for his name and badge number and got no response (the officer insists that he did tell him, but Gates was yelling too loud to hear him).

That still wouldn't resolve whether the arrest was warranted though, and in fact the suggestion by the police that they might release those recordings only furthers the unflattering impression that they arrested him for 'contempt of cop' rather than what the charge is actually intended for.
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Old 07-25-2009, 10:59 PM   #95
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I think diamond meant the police radio transmissions, not the 911 recording
Okay, that makes more sense. I couldn't imagine what purpose it would serve to release the 911 tape.
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Old 07-25-2009, 11:10 PM   #96
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That still wouldn't resolve whether the arrest was warranted though, and in fact the suggestion by the police that they might release those recordings only furthers the unflattering impression that they arrested him for 'contempt of cop' rather than what the charge is actually intended for.
That's definitely the impression I come to. I think it's an understandable human reaction for someone in a position of authority to mete out some small punishment for someone harassing him. Especially if the harasser hits a nerve. That doesn't make it right, though.
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Old 07-25-2009, 11:13 PM   #97
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I think diamond meant the police radio transmissions, not the 911 recording, though those would at 'best' confirm what most people already assume to be true--namely that yep, Gates was being verbally rude as hell. Neither Gates nor his lawyer have accused the officer of verbally harassing him; the closest thing to that would be Gates' recollection that he asked the officer multiple times for his name and badge number and got no response (the officer insists that he did tell him, but Gates was yelling too loud to hear him).

That still wouldn't resolve whether the arrest was warranted though, and in fact the suggestion by the police that they might release those recordings only furthers the unflattering impression that they arrested him for 'contempt of cop' rather than what the charge is actually intended for.

Well, hoping that we are all being fair minded in this discusson, I do see both sides of the issue.

I do think if recordings are released that it will bolster the officers' accounts and make Gate's account look worse.

From the cop's perspective, he was only given a Harvard ID with no address.
At this point, he *still*needed to determine that Gates was in his house legally-after all Gates broke in.

Could the locks have been changed by a spouse, a landlord etc-while Prof Gates was in China for some reason? Perhaps these scenarios were running thru Crowely's mind, while Gates becoming more and more beligerent.

The professor owed it to the officer to act calmly, to explain the circumstances better on how and why he was breaking into his own home-not fly of the handle, jump to the race card, insult him and act disorderly.

If this were done this way, there would have been no incident, no arrest and Obama wouldn't have had to back pedal the last few days.

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Old 07-25-2009, 11:27 PM   #98
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Point taken, diamond. Gates definitely could've acted more rationally and calmly. It goes the other way, too, though. The arrest was made because Gates was being an ass, basically. That's a really lame reason to arrest someone. Nobody was under attack. Gates, an elderly man who uses a cane, posed no physical threat to the officer. The only thing under attack was the officer's ego, at that point. Had the officer been the bigger man, taken the harassment as the rantings of a frustrated and irate man and walked away, this wouldn't have been a big deal.
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Old 07-25-2009, 11:40 PM   #99
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At this point, I'm still trying to ascertain *if* Crowely actually was certain that Gates belonged in the house.

Of course he knows now, but at the time when Gates became unruly, disorderly and insulting-did Crowely know for certain that Gates belong there, or had Gates disintegrated so far at that point that Crowely couldn't know for sure.

Where we differ, is the disorderly part, even if a cop is clumsy, I don't think you ever should berate them-it's how I was raised. One can always address those issues later.
And given who Gates was, his level of education- I would expect more of him. Gates knew he could of handled this in civil court later if he felt his civil rights were being violated.

As the facts continue to emerge, I'm open to change my view.

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Old 07-25-2009, 11:46 PM   #100
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Where we differ, is the disorderly part, even if a cop is clumsy, I don't think you ever should berate them-it's how I was raised.
I totally agree with you. They do have a hard enough job as it is. But I don't think berating cops should be an arrestable offense, either. Back to that whole freedom of speech thing.
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:09 AM   #101
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Well 2 thoughts come to mind:

1-If Gates had become so unmanageable to impede the investigation because of his yelling and unruliness and it hadn't been determined yet that he was suppose to be in the house legally-than that would necessitate an arrest for disorderly conduct.

2-As yelling in a crowded theater one could be arrested for disorderly conduct, one can also be arrested for disorderly conduct for yelling at peace officer who in the process of completing an investigation.

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Old 07-26-2009, 01:24 AM   #102
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I think we can all rest easy tonight, it looks like things are going to be just fine. There's nothing a friendly beer with the president can't fix!


Black scholar agrees to beer with Obama, policeman | U.S. | Reuters

Black scholar agrees to beer with Obama, policeman

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A prominent black Harvard University scholar has accepted an invitation to have a beer with President Barack Obama and the white police officer who arrested him in a racially charged case.

Professor Henry Louis Gates said Saturday he was willing to have a peace-making beer with Obama and Cambridge, Massachusetts, police Sgt. James Crowley.

Gates was arrested last week at his home after a neighbor called police to say that a man was breaking into the house. Obama said Cambridge police had "acted stupidly," prompting an outcry from police groups and a resulting media blitz.

Obama later telephoned both men and, on Crowley's suggestion, invited the two to the White House for a beer.

"I am pleased that he, too, is eager to use my experience as a teaching moment, and if meeting Sgt. Crowley for a beer with the president will further that end, then I would be happy to oblige," Gates said in a statement on TheRoot.com, an Internet newsletter he edits.

Gates said he hoped his arrest would help reduce racial profiling by law enforcement agencies.
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Old 07-26-2009, 01:25 AM   #103
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Diamond wouldn't have posted in this thread if it wasn't an avenue towards insulting Obama. If Obama hadn't talked about the issue, Diamond wouldn't have either.

All hail the GOP.
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Old 07-26-2009, 06:28 AM   #104
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I wonder if there is a statistic out there for the number of people who are arrested and have the charges dropped.
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Old 07-26-2009, 07:16 AM   #105
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I don't see why the president has to get involved in these small incidents. What's the point of even asking him about these things?
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