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Old 07-24-2009, 09:41 PM   #76
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I do have a 130 IQ.


Is that what the MySpace IQ test with George Bush on the add told you?
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Old 07-24-2009, 09:46 PM   #77
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Come on, BVS...
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Old 07-24-2009, 10:04 PM   #78
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And for those that want to invoke the 'thin blue line' theory shows only that they have yet to evolve from their own self imposed paradigms.

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Do you seriously believe this doesn't happen? I've dated a cop off and on for over 5 years now. Trust me, it happens.

And the black cop would be far more likely to side with his co-worker than with the person being arrested.
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Old 07-24-2009, 10:25 PM   #79
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Seems like a case where both sides should have calmed down, taken a step back, and thought through their actions.
Agreed.

My mother was asked for identification a few years ago outside of our house. Her and another person were moving boxes outside of the house. I guess it looked suspicious, because a cop stopped and asked her what was going on. She explained the situation. He asked for ID, she provided it. Also, when an alarm goes off in the middle of the night at a house, the cops come and will ask for ID.

I'm not naive enough to think that racial profiling doesn't occur today. But I honestly do not believe this was a case of it.
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Old 07-24-2009, 10:27 PM   #80
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I like how everyone is getting into a heated argument over this
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Old 07-24-2009, 10:39 PM   #81
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Welcome to Diamond in FYM
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Old 07-24-2009, 11:58 PM   #82
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Do you seriously believe this doesn't happen? I've dated a cop off and on for over 5 years now. Trust me, it happens.
.

Of course it does, and when it does it's despicable.

It did not happen in this case.


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Old 07-25-2009, 03:49 AM   #83
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Is this topic somehow controversial? What? The guy was at the door of his own home!
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Old 07-25-2009, 06:24 PM   #84
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^ I'm not sure whether you have 'disorderly conduct' charges in Australia...in the US they date back to the mid-19th century, when street riots and brawls between immigrants and native-born workers over labor were common in our cities, and police wanted authorization to stop them before they started by breaking up crowds and hauling away instigating individuals whose words and gestures were rapidly attracting dangerous forms of attention. The idea was a good one from a public safety standpoint, but since what constitutes 'disorderly' is by nature vague and heavily subject to police discretion, these charges have often come into conflict with First Amendment rights. Yelling at police, while obviously unhelpful and often wholly unreasonable as well, isn't in itself a crime but, unfortunately, the vagueness of these statutes makes it easier than it should be for police to finagle an arrest out of situations which don't warrant it by making a case that the person's behavior somehow constituted a threat to public order and therefore had to be stopped. And it's no skin off their nose if the charges wind up getting dropped later.
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sometimes the truth is better left unsaid by the leader of the free world
That was precisely my point.

What Obama actually said yesterday was,
Quote:
...I want to make clear that in my choice of words I think I unfortunately gave an impression that I was maligning the Cambridge Police Department or Sergeant Crowley specifically—and I could have calibrated those words differently. And I told this to Sergeant Crowley. I continue to believe, based on what I have heard, that there was an overreaction in pulling Professor Gates out of his home to the station. I also continue to believe, based on what I heard, that Professor Gates probably overreacted as well.
In other words, "On second thought, seeing as how I'm President, I really need to avoid things like publically applying the word 'stupid' to police actions." Ordinary citizens posting on an Internet forum don't need to worry about that sort of scrutiny, nor are we subject to expectations that we'll "calibrate" our words and actions so as to smooth as many feathers at once on both sides of a public conflict as we can.
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Old 07-25-2009, 06:38 PM   #85
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in regards to what diamond said, and adding some of my personal experience:

my demographics are something like 80% black.

sometimes i have to go check people's id badges at the airport (they are all black) most of them get pissy when i ask them for it, and get REAL pissy when i challenge them about being in an area they arent supposed to be.

whenever a black co-worker challenges them they dont say shit or joke around about it, but when i do (being a white boy not from the island) i guess it's like i shouldnt be asking them anything.

but, i dont really care either way. it doesnt bother me one bit. they dont like me asking, tough shit
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Old 07-25-2009, 08:36 PM   #86
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Originally i meant to say it would have been better if Obama would have kept his opinion to himself being that a) his postition and b) his lack of knowlege of the circumstances-but he couldn't do it.

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^



What Obama actually said yesterday was,

.


Yes that was yesterday, and tomorrow we'll see how Obama continues to calibrate and evolve in his thought processes and how'll he'll parse his words next-depending on the political fall out.

pass the popcorn



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Old 07-25-2009, 09:18 PM   #87
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I don't necessarily feel that the incident was racially motivated. What we have here is a man who was probably tired and a little cranky from travelling who returned home to find, to his further annoyance, that his door wouldn't open, and that he needed assistance to get in. Then the police arrived to investigate whether he was a burglar, and he probably didn't show the degree of deference that the cop would have preferred (in his place, I doubt I would have, either). So, the cranky academic took offense to what happened, probably wondering if it was because of his race, maybe feeling embarassed that all this was taking place in view of his neighbours. What I don't understand is why this resulted in an arrest. Cops are trained in conflict management, they know how to deescalate situations. All the officer needed to do was to explain that he was only doing his job, and that if it had been an actual break in, Gates would have been appreciative. And then he should have left the premises, end of story.

While I can certainly imagine Gates being angry, I find it hard to believe that a respected Harvard-employed academic would resort to "yo momma" type insults toward the officer, that just makes no sense whatsoever. I dunno, this whole thing sounds to me like the cop was a bit of a hothead who refused to take Gates' perspective, and did nothing to try to mitigate the situation.
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:27 PM   #88
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Originally i meant to say it would have been better if Obama would have kept his opinion to himself being that a) his postition and b) his lack of knowlege of the circumstances-but he couldn't do it.
Obama was asked a direct question. He answered it, quite thoughtfully, I might add. Have you actually listened to his full response?

Regarding b), you're in the exact same situation, and I think you're misinterpreting Obama's words. He said he didn't have all the facts, and guess what? That applies to everyone who was not present when it happened.

The difference in this case is that Obama prefaced his statement by admitting that he can't know exactly what happened and exactly why it happened (since he wasn't there when it happened), whereas you come in here and simply tell us why it happened, despite that same lack of knowledge.
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:39 PM   #89
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Obama was asked a direct question. He answered it,
The difference in this case is that Obama prefaced his statement by admitting that he can't know exactly what happened and exactly why it happened (since he wasn't there when it happened), whereas you come in here and simply tell us why it happened, despite that same lack of knowledge.

No, the difference is that I read the police report, listened to the officers who were there and also the professor's version; all witnesses at scene, and based my decision on the preponderance of the evidence released thus far; Obama put his foot in his mouth without knowing the facts and has been trying to recover ever since.

Therein lies the difference.

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Old 07-25-2009, 09:43 PM   #90
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I don't necessarily feel that the incident was racially motivated. What we have here is a man who was probably tired and a little cranky from travelling who returned home to find, to his further annoyance, that his door wouldn't open, and that he needed assistance to get in. Then the police arrived to investigate whether he was a burglar, and he probably didn't show the degree of deference that the cop would have preferred (in his place, I doubt I would have, either). So, the cranky academic took offense to what happened, probably wondering if it was because of his race, maybe feeling embarassed that all this was taking place in view of his neighbours. What I don't understand is why this resulted in an arrest. Cops are trained in conflict management, they know how to deescalate situations. All the officer needed to do was to explain that he was only doing his job, and that if it had been an actual break in, Gates would have been appreciative. And then he should have left the premises, end of story.

While I can certainly imagine Gates being angry, I find it hard to believe that a respected Harvard-employed academic would resort to "yo momma" type insults toward the officer, that just makes no sense whatsoever. I dunno, this whole thing sounds to me like the cop was a bit of a hothead who refused to take Gates' perspective, and did nothing to try to mitigate the situation.
They may be releasing the recorded 911 tapes of the event and that could clear up who was a hot head or not.

The cop is known to be a seasoned professional who teaches classes against racial profiling to other police officers.

The cop was not the "hot head".

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