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Old 07-29-2009, 04:33 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by U2DMfan View Post
Were you there?



?

I don't think anyone here could be "certain" without being there.
Sort of goes without saying, doesn't it?
No.

Based on all the facts, police reports, witnesses is how I came to my conclusion. I stated this days ago, and I think you're a bit late to the party.

There are some here that haven't budged an inch in their initial conclusions as more evidence has surfaced.

Gates=

-a subscriber of Malcom X's views over MLK's
-a million dollar contributor to Obama's presidential bid.
-has referred to Whites as "whiteys'" publicly in the past.
-has racial issues and demonstrated those views with the indignant way he treated Officer Crowely.

Crowely=

-a decent police officer with a great track record in dealing with racial issues
taught classes to younger police officers against profiling
-has a African American boss that picked him to teach the class on profiling
-gave CPR to Reggie Lewis a nationally renowned African American athlete who died, and Reggie Lewis' family lauded his efforts before all of this came to pass.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...ont_apologize/
-has a multi racial police force that have stood behind him, including officers at the scene, and not ONE has said Crowely was out of line.
-If Crowely were out of order at least some officers would have broke rank.

So, based on the character of both men, and that we weren't there and we don't know everything that Gates did I'm ok with the fact that he was arrested. Just because Gates didn't punch Crowely doesn’t mean he wasn't disorderly.

It's sad that so many of the respondents can't free their minds and think outside of their own self imposed boxes, but look for legal loopholes, refer in legalese terms. Reminds me of Bill Clinton's infamous “Depends on the meaning of what the word 'is' is."

The honest question that needs to be asked by some is would Gates have treated Crowely the same indignant, disorderly way if Crowely were black? The answer is no, and there would have been no arrest.



<>
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Old 07-29-2009, 04:38 PM   #212
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So you're judging the events of that day based on your perception of each man's reported character. That's a fair, bias-free way to go about things!


Quote:
Just because Gates didn't punch Crowely doesn’t mean he wasn't disorderly.
Read the report! Then read the legal definition of "disorderly conduct" in the state of Mass! From what was written in the report by the officer himself, Gates doesn't meet the legal definition of being "disorderly." Sheesh. It's really not difficult to see.
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Old 07-29-2009, 04:43 PM   #213
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Past public conduct and attitudes could come up as evidence in a civil case.
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Old 07-29-2009, 04:45 PM   #214
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So you're judging the events of that day based on your perception of each man's reported character. That's a fair, bias-free way to go about things!




Read the report! Then read the legal definition of "disorderly conduct" in the state of Mass! From what was written in the report by the officer himself, Gates doesn't meet the legal definition of being "disorderly." Sheesh. It's really not difficult to see.
legalese

plus we don't know if everything is in the report.
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Old 07-29-2009, 04:47 PM   #215
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Past public conduct and attitudes could come up as evidence in a civil case.
I don't know if you're that simple, or if you're being deliberately obtuse, but that doesn't matter in judging the events OF THAT DAY from a legal standpoint.

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Originally Posted by diamond View Post
legalese

plus we don't know if everything is in the report.
Do you even know what a police report is? It's supposed to be a detailed account of everything that happened, it's the main source of information about the events. If things were left out, the officer isn't doing his job.


This is like arguing with a 5 year old. I'm done.
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Old 07-29-2009, 04:53 PM   #216
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Old 07-29-2009, 04:54 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond View Post
Gates=

-a subscriber of Malcom X's views over MLK's
-a million dollar contributor to Obama's presidential bid.
-has referred to Whites as "whiteys'" publicly in the past.
-has racial issues and demonstrated those views with the indignant way he treated Officer Crowely.

<>
AND he's black. People seem to keep conveniently forgetting to mention that....
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Old 07-29-2009, 04:57 PM   #218
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AND he's black. People seem to keep conveniently forgetting to mention that....
I had COMPLETELY forgotten that! Thank you for reminding me of such an obscure fact!
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Old 07-29-2009, 04:59 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by elevated_u2_fan View Post
I had COMPLETELY forgotten that! Thank you for reminding me of such an obscure fact!
You can't really have a conversation of his guilt or innocence without that fact being presented, right?
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Old 07-29-2009, 05:00 PM   #220
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You can't really have a conversation of his guilt or innocence without that fact being presented, right?
it is the most important factor when you think about it...
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Old 07-29-2009, 05:03 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by elevated_u2_fan View Post
it is the most important factor when you think about it...
In many US States, it's the ONLY factor.
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Old 07-29-2009, 05:04 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by VintagePunk View Post
I don't know if you're that simple, or if you're being deliberately obtuse, but that doesn't matter in judging the events OF THAT DAY from a legal standpoint.



Do you even know what a police report is? It's supposed to be a detailed account of everything that happened, it's the main source of information about the events. If things were left out, the officer isn't doing his job.


This is like arguing with a 5 year old. I'm done.
This summarizes Diamond's argument.
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Old 07-29-2009, 05:59 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by VintagePunk View Post
I don't know if you're that simple, or if you're being deliberately obtuse, but that doesn't matter in judging the events OF THAT DAY from a legal standpoint.
VP, please. Diamond here is a legal expert, continuing to exhibit sharp legal thinking.

For example, he stated that:

Quote:
So based on the statute Gates was guilty of 'disorderly conduct' because on his behavior in a legal sense.
Consequently, when you told him to read the actual wording of the statute in order to determine the definition of "disorderly" he replied with:

Quote:
legalese

plus we don't know if everything is in the report.
See what I mean?
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Old 07-29-2009, 06:25 PM   #224
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Old 07-29-2009, 06:27 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by anitram View Post
VP, please. Diamond here is a legal expert, continuing to exhibit sharp legal thinking.

For example, he stated that:



Consequently, when you told him to read the actual wording of the statute in order to determine the definition of "disorderly" he replied with:



See what I mean?
Ha! I'm far from a legal expert, but even I'm able to look at the relevant facts and follow the chain of logic from A to B to C.
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