Why Are You Not a Christian?

[Pearl]

Had I not had strong power but sacred expeiences testifying of the reality of Christ, His divine mission, atonement and sacrifice, I think Buddahism would be the way to go.

I almost became a Buddhist. Years ago, I thought Christianity was all about following mundane rules and living in fear of hell. But then I started reading up on Bono's faith. No joke, U2 kept me interested in being a Christian - as crazy as it sounds.

 

[Kieran McConville]

Actually I'd argue that the Church's position within the Roman world towards the end was maybe beneficial on balance. It provided a bridge between antiquity and the medieval/modern world, where European civilisation is concerned.

Sure, slam religion and all the rest, but understand that in the world as it is lived, someone or something will rise to fill any political vacuum.

 

[AliEnvy]

what do you mean by "prominent"? the most believers?

Yes.

 

[phillyfan26]

I almost became a Buddhist. Years ago, I thought Christianity was all about following mundane rules and living in fear of hell. But then I started reading up on Bono's faith. No joke, U2 kept me interested in being a Christian - as crazy as it sounds.

I honestly don't understand why Bono considers himself a Christian. His views are simple and easy to agree with, whereas Christian religions often bury the real messages under their political agendas. (Again, I don't mean Christian persons, I mean the religions themselves.) Bono's view is "God is love." When he cites the Bible, he cites things that support that view, like about how God loves the impoverished. That's something I could get behind.

The first thing you see when you drive up to my Church? A large white sign that says "Pray to End Abortion." You see that before you see the church or even the church's sign. It's like they want to embarrass me one more time when I decide I'm going.

 

[Liesje]

I honestly don't understand why Bono considers himself a Christian. His views are simple and easy to agree with, whereas Christian religions often bury the real messages under their political agendas. (Again, I don't mean Christian persons, I mean the religions themselves.) Bono's view is "God is love." When he cites the Bible, he cites things that support that view, like about how God loves the impoverished. That's something I could get behind.

The first thing you see when you drive up to my Church? A large white sign that says "Pray to End Abortion." You see that before you see the church or even the church's sign. It's like they want to embarrass me one more time when I decide I'm going.

Shouldn't it be the other way around? I think it is why Bono says he is a Christian but is uncomfortable with organized religion.

 

[Irvine511]

Yes.

is that true though? not too many christians in india and china.

i have no idea though.

 

[Jive Turkey]

is that true though? not too many christians in india and china.

i have no idea though.

I thought the same thing, so I looked it up. Apparently 1/3 of the population is Christian of one denomination or another.

 

[AliEnvy]

 

[phillyfan26]

Shouldn't it be the other way around? I think it is why Bono says he is a Christian but is uncomfortable with organized religion.

Has he said he's uncomfortable with organized religion? If he has, then I retract my statement to say I agree with him.

 

[AttnKleinkind]

The first thing you see when you drive up to my Church? A large white sign that says "Pray to End Abortion." You see that before you see the church or even the church's sign. It's like they want to embarrass me one more time when I decide I'm going.

I don't think you should characterize all of Christianity with North American Christianity. I actually heard that a certain Chinese organization is preparing to send missionaries over to North America, and I think we need it (well, as a Christian looking at how far off track things have gotten). Also, that's not at all what all churches are like anyway, so just because one group is terribly misguided doesn't mean that you should write off everyone.

 

[AttnKleinkind]

is that true though? not too many christians in india and china.

i have no idea though.

From Wikipedia:

The CIA World Factbook indicates that 3%-4% of all the population in China are Christians (2002 est.).[37] Independent estimates have ranged from 40 million[33] to 100 million.[38]

Christianity is India's third-largest religion, with approximately 24 million followers, constituting 2.4% of India's population.[2]

I think that Christianity is way bigger in the developing world than it is here.

I guess maybe because I'm in Canada it feels like it's a lot more secular in North America? It's interesting reading the different things about how pervasive Christianity is as a cultural force in the U.S.

 

[kingofsorrow]

that's not at all what all churches are like anyway, so just because one group is terribly misguided doesn't mean that you should write off everyone.

when the other churches do or say nothing about the "misguided" churches actions, how can people not judge the religion as a whole? their silence or indifference can be misinterpreted as acceptance by others.

I think that Christianity is way bigger in the developing world than it is here.

it's easy to gain followers in parts of the world where hope has fled the people. quite an ingenious plan, insidious, but ingenious nonetheless.

 

[Kieran McConville]

when the other churches do or say nothing about the "misguided" churches actions, how can people not judge the religion as a whole? their silence or indifference can be misinterpreted as acceptance by others.

No, that's pretty poor logic actually. For one thing, there is no 'one' Church. That horse bolted about a thousand years ago. Am I to answer for a Lutheran? A Mormon? A Baptist?

It is most particularly bad logic as it falls in the same basket as the early-naughties calls for all Muslims to prove they weren't the same as the 9/11 hijackers. As if loud condemnation would ever be enough. Do you really want to go there?

 

[Kieran McConville]

Also who says that hope has fled the people in the developing world? Which countries? Let's get specific. I'm sure that the burden of being not-american weighs heavy upon them but most seem able to work up a smile now and then.

 

[kingofsorrow]

No, that's pretty poor logic actually. For one thing, there is no 'one' Church. That horse bolted about a thousand years ago. Am I to answer for a Lutheran? A Mormon? A Baptist?

It is most particularly bad logic as it falls in the same basket as the early-naughties calls for all Muslims to prove they weren't the same as the 9/11 hijackers. As if loud condemnation would ever be enough. Do you really want to go there?

yes of course it's poor logic. really there is no one church? wow, didn't realise that. of course i didn't claim there was either. how dare i call for christians to take responsibilty for the actions of their brethren just because they all essentially share the same core belief.
i take back my previous statement. it's better to to bury our head in the sand and claim "he's not my brother".

I'm sure that the burden of being not-american weighs heavy upon them but most seem able to work up a smile now and then.

your so right. a smile can chase the famine away can't it? smiling can quench the drought? smilling can end the endless pain and suffering of the innocent right? once again you have proven me wrong. i bow to your superior logic sir.

 

[Kieran McConville]

yes of course it's poor logic. really there is no one church? wow, didn't realise that. of course i didn't claim there was either. how dare i call for christians to take responsibilty for the actions of their brethren just because they all essentially share the same core belief.
i take back my previous statement. it's better to to bury our head in the sand and claim "he's not my brother".



your so right. a smile can chase the famine away can't it? smiling can quench the drought? smilling can end the endless pain and suffering of the innocent right? once again you have proven me wrong. i bow to your superior logic sir.

Touche.

I can't be bothered with your miserable excuse for argument. Yeah, all Christians share the same beliefs (really!) and everyone in the developing world is starving and in benighted purgatory, every last one. The point of my little bit of sarcasm there was to suggest you are drawing with a pretty broad brush, about a lot of people living in an awful lot of countries.

 

[kingofsorrow]

typical

 

[martha]

when the other churches do or say nothing about the "misguided" churches actions, how can people not judge the religion as a whole? their silence or indifference can be misinterpreted as acceptance by others.

Really? I look forward to your posts in every single thread, expressing either your condemnation or support of every idea in them. Your silence means that I can assume you support/condemn every idea. For shame.

If you pay attention., many churches do condemn the narrow-minded actions of other churches. There are organizations full of pro-choice Christian women. There are missions around the world who feed and educate the poor. You know, there are even Muslims who aren't terrorists!

I've even heard that some non-believers don't make sweeping generalizations about people of faith!!

 

[redhotswami]

Holy shit there are Hindus in South America??? My people!!!

 

[BVS]

But where is the oppressed "Christian" demographic?

 

[phillyfan26]

I don't think you should characterize all of Christianity with North American Christianity. I actually heard that a certain Chinese organization is preparing to send missionaries over to North America, and I think we need it (well, as a Christian looking at how far off track things have gotten). Also, that's not at all what all churches are like anyway, so just because one group is terribly misguided doesn't mean that you should write off everyone.

What? I have no idea what you're on about. Every religion has its hierarchy and leadership. For example, I'm Catholic, so that's the Vatican and the Pope and the bishops, who are spread out around the world. It's got nothing to do with North America.

And that's what almost every church I've ever been to is like. There are many, many religions that love getting political, the Catholic Church being as guilty as any.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Well, I would say that there is a difference in the political and social engagement of the Church in the US and Europe, in the sense that this strong Christian Right which has quite a sway in the US is almost, not entirely but almost, non-existent here. So the perception of Christianity might differ in some ways between the continents.

You wouldn't find a church here in Germany, for example, which had such a sign in front, and politics don't play a role in the sermons. They don't preach virginity in the way they do in the Baptist Church, i.e. giving an oath, etc.
But it's rather an issue of the branch of Christianity than Christianity itself which should be considered as well.
And I don't agree that any Christian group should have to apologize for another. When a German does something stupid I'm not feeling like I should apologize for him or condemn his actions.

 

[AEON]

What? I have no idea what you're on about. Every religion has its hierarchy and leadership. For example, I'm Catholic, so that's the Vatican and the Pope and the bishops, who are spread out around the world. It's got nothing to do with North America.

Philly, there are some "sects" of Christianity that are independent of the traditional structures like the Catholics, Lutherans, Southern Baptists...while they do have leaders, they are contained to that individual church.

 

[diamond]

For our Evangelical friends, please note the portion of Utah in the US is firmly ensconced in the Christian color.

thank u.

<>

 

[BVS]

For our Evangelical friends, please note the portion of Utah in the US is firmly ensconced in the Christian color.

thank u.

<>

And so are the Blue States, how is that possible?

 

[diamond]

interesting now isn't it?

 

[kingofsorrow]

Really? I look forward to your posts in every single thread, expressing either your condemnation or support of every idea in them.

and i always look forward to people who misunderstand, misread, or simply just let the point of a post fly over their heads like a screaming fighter jet.

If you pay attention., many churches do condemn the narrow-minded actions of other churches. There are organizations full of pro-choice Christian women.

tell me how many of them do it without trying to "spread the word" at the same time? even in some small, tiny, indistinguishable way, they aways push their religious agenda.

You know, there are even Muslims who aren't terrorists!

well i'm glad you said this. now i can lay to rest those suspicions about my grandparents. i've always had this nagging suspicion about their "agenda". now thanks to you i can lay that to rest and just see them as people.

I've even heard that some non-believers don't make sweeping generalizations about people of faith!!

once again. misreading, misunderstanding or just plain ignoring what was posted. i made no generalizations. i just pointed out how the public in general can view and misinterpret and organizations agenda based on their actions or lack off. But no, KOS is make sweeping generalizations and condemning remarks.
my mother and daughter is christian, my father is hindu, grandparents are muslims. i may not know as much academically as all the wonderful intellects on here, but being on the inside of a multi-religious family gives me a better view than all the degrees' can ever.

Your silence means that I can assume you support/condemn every idea. For shame.

at least i'm consistent. i may be an asshole, but this asshole will always help you and ask nothing, NOTHING, at all in return. not even a thank you. there is no hidden agenda, the asshole you see, is the asshole you get.

 

[Irvine511]

But where is the oppressed "Christian" demographic?

the American mid-west and south who are forced to attend Holiday Parties and say "Season's Greetings."

on a more serious note, i'd like to announce my distance from KOS.

certainly, the politicization of a certain type of deeply American evangelical Christianity that saw it's apex of political expression under GWB where James Dobson was given veto power over SCOTUS nominees -- more accurately referred to as Christianism -- deserves all the suspicion and mockery it gets. but people like Keiran, martha, sean, and so many others on this board are far too smart to be so lazily lumped in with those charlatans. i may not share their beliefs, but i do respect them, and not just their right to their beliefs, but the actual beliefs themselves.

 

[diamond]

on a more serious note, i'd like to announce my distance from KOS.

Yes, you kinda look bad posting links from there in the past and or other various related sites re Sarah Palin and who the father of her child was.

So, you have a litmus tests for Christians?

 

[phillyfan26]

Philly, there are some "sects" of Christianity that are independent of the traditional structures like the Catholics, Lutherans, Southern Baptists...while they do have leaders, they are contained to that individual church.

I'm aware of these existing, but they are a small minority compared to the mainstream Christians. And it's those mainstream religions that I'm talking about because they're the ones with the most influence.