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Old 11-27-2009, 10:47 PM   #16
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What did that rebel say that you don't agree with?


I find it somewhat disrespectful of the way you always seem to refer to The Lord that you believe in as a "rebel" & I am a Reluctant Atheist LOL

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Old 11-27-2009, 10:54 PM   #17
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Why are you not a Zoroastrian?
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Old 11-27-2009, 10:56 PM   #18
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These days I am leaning agnostic. I think I believe in something larger than ourselves, but our efforts to define it and claim it and treat other humans like scum and kill each other over it leaves me very cynical and unimpressed when it comes to organized religion.
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Old 11-27-2009, 11:02 PM   #19
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1. Raised Roman Catholic in N.J. until I was a teenager long story short my Father disagreed w/ their teaching on Salvation ended up in the King James Only Baptist Camp for about twenty years

2. "Born again" @ 17 from 1993 until 2003 all I wanted to be was a Pastor of a Church went through Seminary yada yada yada fast forward to June 2003 I became good friends w/ a guy who was NOT KJV Only & he did like a home church thing...the Pastor of the church our family had been at for a tad over nine years said "drop him as a friend or leave...." guess what I did

3. Fall 2006 Pig walks into an Amish School in Pa. lines up small girls & executes some of them like cattle that is when it began.....

4. To answer your question for me The Problem Of Evil & Suffering is the 800 Pound Gorilla in the room

5. Plus w/o going into detail to be brief from most of my own personal studies The Gospels really seem to me to be MYTH & LEGEND (ie; Virgin Birth/Water Into Wine/Raising The Dead/Walking On Water/Ressurrection)
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Old 11-28-2009, 12:22 AM   #20
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because I wasnt brainwashed as a child
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Old 11-28-2009, 12:48 AM   #21
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I incorporate much of what your rebel says into my value system, ie, The Golden Rule. But I don't find that exclusive to the Christian faith or to religious faith in general. One can appreciate part of something without buying it whole hog.

(Just an off-track observation from lengthy dalliance with Christianity: much of the Christian Church is about St. Paul more than it is about Jesus. I know Paul was way chattier and all. And it is easier to follow rules than it is to follow the much simpler but harder message of the red text. I find it kind of interesting that I've heard too many Christians say you have to take Jesus's words in context of the times who don't put that same onus on Paul. Hell, a whole lot of nonChristians show more respect for the red words than a many Christians do -- and know them better.)

Me, I'm not much of a faith and grace person. And that's a hallmark of Christianity. So, no, I'm not a Christian. But I find value in many forms of Christianity and in many Christians. I do notice that many people who define themselves as religious (not exclusive to Christianity by any means or actually not even exclusive to religious) believe a profession of faith (or ideology) trumps any need to behave well. Well, I agree with "By their fruits, you shall know them." That's not a remark directed at you, but certainly a common de facto modus operandi I've observed.

I have to admit that even as an ex-Christian, I find your "rebel" usage a little glib and meaningless. Do I see a rebel in Jesus? I do. Do I admire that? I do. Do I think you have made much of a case for Jesus other than making him sound like Johnny Yuma, certainly an attractive image, to be sure? Not yet. So tell me about your Jesus in your life, tell me what you take from him. I haven't seen it yet.
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Old 11-28-2009, 12:55 AM   #22
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What did that rebel say that you don't agree with?
Sort of a strawman, when taken with your thread title.

You pose this quoted question above as if the Bible was hand written by Jesus himself.

What teaching that is attributed to Jesus would I disagree with?
None off the top of my head. It's hard to answer right now.

But unfortunately, there is the entire Old Testament and the vast portion of the New Testament which is filled with stories written by several different authors spanning many years, in the case of the NT, long after Jesus was dead. The accuracy of the book itself is enough to look at it in a different light.

Why am I not a Christian? Because I don't even think Jesus, if he was exactly as portrayed in the NT, would be a "Christian". I think Jesus would need a planet-wide temple-cleansing to 'reset' the idea of being a "Christian" itself.

Here is the question you should have asked:
Do you believe in the Divinity of Christ?
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Old 11-28-2009, 01:09 AM   #23
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Jesus was a Jew.
You seem to be oblivious to how your framing of threads put off most people rather than invite them...
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Old 11-28-2009, 02:29 AM   #24
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What did that rebel say that you don't agree with?
He said God exists. There's the problem. Your mob have yet to offer one shred of verifiable, falsifiable evidence demonstrating the existence of a deity.
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Old 11-28-2009, 02:54 AM   #25
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Moral
- I don't think that we are responsible for the crimes of our ancestors, original sin is an evil concept, and I pity you if you have to live with it.
- I don't like scapegoating, I can't do away with my moral responsibility by accepting Jesus.
- Revelation doesn't produce good reasons for moral choices, which extends into the Euthyphro argument about what justifies goodness.

Jesus
- There is very limited evidence for his existence, but even if I accept that he is an historical figure this doesn't make the claims of Christianity any more legitimate than those of Scientology or Mormonism.
- Other people throughout history have made messianic claims and demonstrated "miracles", there is nothing that makes Jesus special in that regard.
- The odd events such as cursing a fig tree, and killing a herd of pigs during an exorcism, make it hard to accept Jesus was God.
- His brutal execution doesn't have any impact on my goodness as a person, who I help or hurt is my responsibility and no outside force can change that.

Cosmic Arguments
- There are no good reasons to believe in God, and plenty of decent ones to doubt its existence.
- In the unlikely event there is a God I find it implausible that human life would matter to it, I base this view on our cosmic insignificance and our origins through unguided selection.
- Even if a creative intelligence made the universe this wouldn't automatically validate any human religion.
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Old 11-28-2009, 01:14 PM   #26
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The last two posts reminded of a favorite quote, from writer Robert Heinlein, which pretty much answers the question why I'm not a believer:

"The most preposterous notion that H. sapiens has ever dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history.
The second most preposterous notion is that copulation is inherently sinful."
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Old 11-28-2009, 02:36 PM   #27
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You might want to to read the New Testament.

What you express, is a revolutionary idea.



this is why i wouldn't identify as anything other than culturally Christian.

statements like the above, the need to evangelize, the assumption that everyone else shares their burning passion and if they don't then they just need to stop and listen and then they'll see!

it's like how i was with U2 back in junior high. i thought they should be *everybody's* favorite band, and i'd tell people this, and if someone didn't like a song or an album or Bono, it was because they just didn't know how amazing it was yet.

but then i turned 15 and outgrew it.
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Old 11-28-2009, 02:41 PM   #28
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What did that rebel say that you don't agree with?
Because I know how and why religion was created. I know that pretty much everything taught about religion can be traced back to some rulers centuries ago creating things in order to further control the masses. It had nothing to do with a God, it had to do with people making things up for their own personal interests.

And because Christianity is based on a book that was written by a bunch of random guys. Not God. Just some random dudes writing a book one dude.

The funny thing is that I'm Catholic and attend mass regularly, I just don't believe a word of it.
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Old 11-28-2009, 03:29 PM   #29
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The funny thing is that I'm Catholic and attend mass regularly, I just don't believe a word of it.
What do you get out of going to mass regularly?
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Old 11-28-2009, 04:13 PM   #30
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religion is the reason why the world is turning into madness.
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