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Old 04-28-2010, 06:22 PM   #106
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On top of what Irvine said, there's a whole bunch of different standards for celebrities than for your average person.
Yes I know that-but make him a female celebrity if you want a direct comparison. I chose him only because he's the biggest ho I could come up with on short notice. There are no female athletes on his level but there are some female actresses that might be comparable, as comparable as athletes and actors can be. She would be called a slut and worse. Just my hunch about it, obviously I don't have a crystal ball.

A hole's not the same label as slut, I think there is a critical distinction. A hole can include a boys will be boys excusing of his behavior. He's arrogant, he's entitled, he was a very carefully crafted fake-but not a ho. Not to mention the victimization of him, which he and his people tried to work to their advantage.
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Old 04-28-2010, 09:12 PM   #107
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i fully agree with you here. it's the double-standards when it comes to such behavior that's the issue.

i've also watched most of Season 2 of Mad Men over the past 48 hours, so my mind is certainly awash in the (gorgeously art directed) dramatization of precisely these double standards.

however, i'd ask you this: do you think it's possible that some people enjoy and feel good about promiscuous sex? that this, for them, is healthy sexuality? that they're not interested in one monogamous partner for life? that the bonds of monogamy are impossible for them to live under?

and what if that person were a woman?

i start to push back when we go about trying to proscribe only one ideal, acceptable form of sexuality. in my recent travels for my job, i found myself in a very strange place where ... well, let's just say that an unequal power dynamic between sex partners was celebrated and explored. again, this was for my job. when i saw this unequal power dynamic in front of me, and it was the male in possession of the power, so to speak, to me, it looked very, very rape-y. in fact, and i'll confess, much heterosexual sex -- especially as dramatized in the past -- looks very rape-y to me, and makes me uncomfortable.

however, upon a long discussion with an expert in said unequal power dynamics, i began to realize that the submissive partner actually has the power, because she (in this situation) had the power to give, and it was hers to take away, and perhaps she enjoys being the submissive in that consented to situation. and that, ultimately, my powerful reaction to that situation (and to many depictions of heterosexual sex in general) are really noble, well-intended, but ultimately sexist expressions of patriarchal concern for weak females who need to be rescued. likely by me.

what i am ultimately saying is that many of our noblest impulses in regards to what is and what isn't healthy sexuality require defining choices for women before they've even had the chance to make them.

this might be difficult to understand because i've been purposefully vague, but the broader point is that female agency -- the choice to be a slut, the choice to be unsettlingly submissive -- can often take on a form that we are uncomfortable with, but it's our reaction to that agency wherein we find the double standards.
Indeed.
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Old 04-28-2010, 09:26 PM   #108
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A hole's not the same label as slut, I think there is a critical distinction. A hole can include a boys will be boys excusing of his behavior. He's arrogant, he's entitled, he was a very carefully crafted fake-but not a ho. Not to mention the victimization of him, which he and his people tried to work to their advantage.
So, if you discovered a male friend or acquaintanance of yours was cheating on his wife, would your reaction differ to the scenario whereby if you discovered a female friend or acquaintance was cheating on her husband?
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:43 AM   #109
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Back to public reaction to men cheating for a moment since I heard this morning on the radio about Gavin Rossdale and Courtney Love.

There is always a comparison of the relative beauty of the other woman to the wife that colours the level of judgement people have for the man's behaviour. And this is not just in the celebrity/public sphere.

If the wife is perceived to be hotter, he's an idiot "what was he thinking", if the other woman is perceived to be hotter than the wife, it's more likely to be treated more as, well you know, boys will be boys.
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Old 04-29-2010, 06:19 PM   #110
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Back to public reaction to men cheating for a moment since I heard this morning on the radio about Gavin Rossdale and Courtney Love.

There is always a comparison of the relative beauty of the other woman to the wife that colours the level of judgement people have for the man's behaviour. And this is not just in the celebrity/public sphere.

If the wife is perceived to be hotter, he's an idiot "what was he thinking", if the other woman is perceived to be hotter than the wife, it's more likely to be treated more as, well you know, boys will be boys.
Great point-same with Elin. Funny the same doesn't seem to hold true for women. If a woman cheats with really hot guys (hotter than husband), well that's not just women will be women and gee who could blame her. Who even brings up the husband's looks vs the guy or guys she's cheating with? Maybe some female friends would, or some catty non friends. But it's not brought up in the context of questioning why the cheating is happening or calling the person an idiot vs saying that the behavior would be expected. The looks of who you're cheating with are irrelevant, but apparently not for all people.

I have the same reaction to males and females cheating-that's the point. It was a response to Irvine's post about calling the guy an a hole vs calling him a slut if you're going to call the woman a slut.
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Old 04-29-2010, 06:21 PM   #111
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Okay, I just realized that you're saying "a hole" instead of "asshole." I thought you were mistyping "ho" for several posts.

I was all "is "hole" the new "ho"?"
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Old 04-29-2010, 06:22 PM   #112
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asshole

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Old 04-29-2010, 06:25 PM   #113
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That's the spirit!
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Old 04-29-2010, 06:28 PM   #114
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It's not the first time I've ever wanted to make that my post here. So I'll just call it wish fulfillment
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Old 04-30-2010, 08:27 PM   #115
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If you can't say it, you can't do it.

YouTube - Sometimes you have to say: "What the fuck!"
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Old 07-27-2010, 01:16 PM   #116
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Why it's never too late to be a lesbian | Life and style | The Guardian

More and more women are discovering after years of marriage to men, and having had children, that they are lesbians. Were they always – or is sexuality more fluid?

"Sexual fluidity occurs in both men and women, but it has been suggested that women are potentially more open and malleable in this regard. Richard Lippa, professor of psychology at California State University, Fullerton, has carried out a variety of studies that have led him to the conclusion that, "while most men tend to have what I call a preferred sex and a non-preferred sex . . . with women there are more shades of grey, and so I tend to talk about them having a more preferred sex, and a less preferred sex. I have definitely heard some women say, 'It was the person I fell in love with, it wasn't the person's gender,' and I think that that is much more of a female experience than a male experience."

"While some people find change threatening," Diamond says, "others find it exciting and liberating, and I definitely think that for women in middle adulthood and late life, they might be the most likely to find sexual shifts empowering. We're an anti-ageing society. We like people to be young, nubile and attractive. And I think the notion that your sexuality can undergo these really exciting, expansive possibilities at a stage when most people assume that women are no longer sexually interesting and are just shutting down, is potentially a really liberating notion for women."



That's not THE diamond of course-even though he knows everything about women, as he has stated
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Old 07-27-2010, 03:36 PM   #117
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[i]"While some people find change threatening," Diamond says, "others find it exciting and liberating, and I definitely think that for women in middle adulthood and late life, they might be the most likely to find sexual shifts empowering.


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Old 07-29-2010, 11:07 AM   #118
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'Inception' star Tom Hardy talks about his fluid sexuality and experimenting with gay sex in an interview with NOW magazine (via the Daily Mail).

When asked if he had ever had sex with men, Tom replied:

"Of course I have. I'm an actor for fuck's sake. I've played with everything and everyone. I love the form and the physicality, but now that I'm in my thirties, it doesn't do it for me. I'm done experimenting but there's plenty of stuff in a relationship with another man, especially gay men, that I need in my life. A lot of gay men get my thing for shoes. I have definite feminine qualities and a lot of gay men are incredibly masculine. A lot of people say I seem masculine, but I don't feel it. I feel intrinsically feminine. I'd love to be one of the boys but I always felt a bit on the outside. Maybe my masculine qualities come from overcompensating because I'm not one of the boys."

Tom, who played the title role in the 2009 film 'Bronson,' is engaged to British actress Charlotte Riley and has a child with an ex-girlfriend.
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Old 08-01-2010, 01:55 AM   #119
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I think most heterosexual men would be more attracted to a very feminine man than a very masculine woman.
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Old 08-01-2010, 02:31 AM   #120
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^ i would think 'attracted' is the wrong word in that case...
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