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Old 04-27-2010, 04:58 PM   #91
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I may get flamed for this, but I think promiscuous behavior needs to be condemned somehow. To me, sleeping with a total stranger every weekend seems sleazy.

this isn't a flame, but to you, yes, i can see how that seems sleazy. to me as well.

however, if we aren't doing this, who are we to judge someone else if someone else is taking responsibility for their sexual activities (contraception, condoms, STD check-ups) and engaging with said activities with someone else who is looking for the same thing? who is harmed?

my broader, more global note on this whole subject is that we're better off telling people what they should not do than what they should do. for example, we can certainly tell people not to have sex with children, with animals, without condoms, because we know what harm can come of it. we don't do as well when we tell people "the only place you should have sex is in a loving monogamous relationship." well, yes, that's a lovely place to have sex, but is it the only way to have sex? what's the next step? missionary-style only? must you then have the lights on, eyes open, and speaking affirmative words to one another?

we do better when people are equipped with knowledge and the ability to make their own decisions rather than making their decisions for them and then berating them -- or, worse, patronizing them -- when they inevitably fall short.
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Old 04-27-2010, 05:00 PM   #92
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I think women, teenagers in particular have taken a lot of power away from the word slut, and have embraced it like the word 'bitch'
Is it women or do the media want us to believe that?
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Old 04-27-2010, 07:10 PM   #93
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however, if we aren't doing this, who are we to judge someone else if someone else is taking responsibility for their sexual activities (contraception, condoms, STD check-ups) and engaging with said activities with someone else who is looking for the same thing? who is harmed?
Very true, no one is harmed. I guess what concerns me is whether or not people are using condoms. If you are going to have fun like that, make sure you do protect yourself. There's always news stories of STD rates going up and not coming down, so I just hope others do take responsibility.
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:24 PM   #94
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Very true, no one is harmed. I guess what concerns me is whether or not people are using condoms. If you are going to have fun like that, make sure you do protect yourself. There's always news stories of STD rates going up and not coming down, so I just hope others do take responsibility.


totally in agreement.

i suppose the question that lingers is whether or not it is a "bad" thing to want multiple partners, no matter how responsibly one takes those partners. do we, or should we, view all non-monogamous sex as less-than? as problematic? as a public health problem?
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Old 04-28-2010, 09:02 AM   #95
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Slut still doesn't apply to men because it's still more expected and more accepted that men will sleep around. The different expectation is still there that women should not sleep around as much. So Tiger slept with all those women but they were called whores, but I didn't see anyone call him a slut or a whore. It's not just him, that's only one very public example. I'd be willing to bet that if his wife had all those affairs she would have been called a slut.

People want to deny that a double standard still exists but reality says otherwise.
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Old 04-28-2010, 09:21 AM   #96
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People want to deny that a double standard still exists but reality says otherwise.
Do they? I haven't come across any of those people myself.

However, giving women a free pass for behaviour we would otherwise criticize in men simply because there's a double standard is ridiculous.
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Old 04-28-2010, 09:25 AM   #97
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Do they?
In my experience, yes. Men and women and women can be especially judgmental of other women. Since there's more equality in other areas people extend it to that, but it my opinion that's one of the areas where there's not as much change from the "old days".

I never said that gives women any sort of free pass
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Old 04-28-2010, 09:51 AM   #98
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As you said there is still much criticism so I haven't come across anyone who denies there's a double standard as you've suggested.

I just don't find it productive to cry foul on double standards for behaviour (or values even) that should be universally questioned.

And I'm not talking about how many people someone sleeps with or if they're into BDSM or anything else that may or may not reflect my personal disposition to the morality or asthetic of sexual preferences.

I'm quite supportive of freedom from shame in exploring sexuality. But for me that doesn't mean a public free-for-all, for either gender. Responsibility to yourself and to a sexual partner extends well beyond safety from STDs, even if it's an anonymous, casual encounter.
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:20 AM   #99
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Responsibility to yourself and to a sexual partner extends well beyond safety from STDs, even if it's an anonymous, casual encounter.
I agree with that 100%
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Old 04-28-2010, 11:22 AM   #100
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Slut still doesn't apply to men because it's still more expected and more accepted that men will sleep around. The different expectation is still there that women should not sleep around as much. So Tiger slept with all those women but they were called whores, but I didn't see anyone call him a slut or a whore. It's not just him, that's only one very public example. I'd be willing to bet that if his wife had all those affairs she would have been called a slut.

People want to deny that a double standard still exists but reality says otherwise.

true, they were all referred to as "ho's," but i don't think people have been slapping Tiger on the back and saying, "woo-hoo! what a stud you are!" generally, people called him an asshole. granted, "asshole" isn't as sexually specific a term as "slut," and maybe that's a critical distinction, but there hasn't at all been a boys-will-be-boys excusing of Tiger's behavior.
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:07 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen View Post
Slut still doesn't apply to men because it's still more expected and more accepted that men will sleep around. The different expectation is still there that women should not sleep around as much. So Tiger slept with all those women but they were called whores, but I didn't see anyone call him a slut or a whore. It's not just him, that's only one very public example. I'd be willing to bet that if his wife had all those affairs she would have been called a slut.

People want to deny that a double standard still exists but reality says otherwise.
On top of what Irvine said, there's a whole bunch of different standards for celebrities than for your average person.
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:35 PM   #102
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granted, "asshole" isn't as sexually specific a term as "slut," and maybe that's a critical distinction
It is a critical distinction.

Granted I've avoided most of the Tiger circus, but my overall impression was that he was called an asshole not as much for being a hound-dog (a stereotype for many athletes) but for betraying his deliberately crafted wholesome image - even more so than for betraying his (hawt hawt) wife and family.
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Old 04-28-2010, 01:24 PM   #103
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true, they were all referred to as "ho's," but i don't think people have been slapping Tiger on the back and saying, "woo-hoo! what a stud you are!" generally, people called him an asshole. granted, "asshole" isn't as sexually specific a term as "slut," and maybe that's a critical distinction, but there hasn't at all been a boys-will-be-boys excusing of Tiger's behavior.
Very good point Irvine. And I saw you're watching Mad Men (I haven't missed an episode). While I am sure some people think it was the Golden Age for the "Man's World" - I think it is clearly demonstrating how damaging it was to the women, children, AND the men.

On a side note - I do like how the show has kicked off a new sense of classic style for men (and perhaps a return of manners).
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Old 04-28-2010, 01:35 PM   #104
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Very good point Irvine. And I saw you're watching Mad Men (I haven't missed an episode). While I am sure some people think it was the Golen Age for the "Man's World" - I think it is clearly demonstrating how damaging it was to the women, children, AND the men.

On a side note - I do like how the show has kicked off a new sense of classic style for men (and perhaps a return of manners).


we just finished Season 2, and now need to get going on Season 3 so we're totally caught up for Season 4 this summer. it's great TV, the best since the heyday of Sopranos and 6 Feet Under.

agreed, it does a fantastic job highlighting the "Man's World," and i wind up thinking that the female characters -- Peggy, Joan, and the totally bonkers Betty -- are far more interesting and have vastly more complex worlds to navigate than the men.

though i do agree about the era's style and manners. and the furniture!
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Old 04-28-2010, 01:38 PM   #105
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It is a critical distinction.


and that's totally fair.

for what it's worth, being a gay man, i worry about the slut label not so much in front of my fellow gays, but in front of a straight audience. there's actually a lot of pressure to subvert the promiscuous stereotype to, you know, "represent" and/or "elevate the race."

word.
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