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Old 04-26-2010, 02:00 PM   #61
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Do you consider self-contol, no matter what gender or orientation, to be a virtue?
Aren't you the one that argues guys can't keep it in their pants?
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:23 PM   #62
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Aren't you the one that argues guys can't keep it in their pants?

only if they are gay guys let loose in the men's room. lord almighty!

also, just to point this out:

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Survey finds more straight women barebacking than gay men

By Staff Writer, PinkNews.co.uk • April 23, 2010 - 16:47

A survey has found that heterosexual women are less likely to use condoms for anal sex than gay men.

The research, carried out by the New York City Department of Health, found that only 23 per cent of women required their male partners to use condoms during anal sex, compared with 61 per cent of gay or bisexual men.

According to the department, an estimated 100,000 New York City women have anal sex every year.

Women who did not use condoms were also far less likely to get tested for sexually transmitted diseases.

While 63 per cent of those who use always condoms get tested regularly, on 35 per cent of those who bareback do.

Younger women were found to be the most likely to unprotected anal sex, with 11 per cent of those aged 18 to 24 stating that they did, compared to two per cent of women aged between 45 and 62.

Anal membranes are easily damaged during sex, facilitating the spread of infection. Past studies suggest that anal exposure to HIV poses 30 times more risk than vaginal exposure.

“Tens of thousands of New Yorkers are engaging in sexual behaviour that is especially risky,” said Dr. Thomas Farley, New York City Health Commissioner.

“Many people are aware of the risk of HIV when men have sex with other men, but this report shows that a large number of women also are putting themselves at high risk through unprotected anal sex.

"For both men and women, the overall message is clear: Never engage in unprotected anal sex. Use a condom every time.”

use those condoms, ladies. with great freedom comes great responsibility.
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:30 PM   #63
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I am not am expert on the barebacking term.

But shouldn't that read:


Survey finds more straight women couples barebacking than gay men.
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:32 PM   #64
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Survey finds more straight women couples barebacking than gay men.

well, you know, boys will be boys ... it's the girls who've got to keep them in line and make responsible, virtuous choices. the poor straight lads can't help themselves.



barebacking = sex with no condom.
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:38 PM   #65
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well, you know, boys will be boys ... it's the girls who've got to keep them in line and make responsible, virtuous choices. the poor straight lads can't help themselves.



barebacking = sex with no condom.

barebacking = anal sex with no condom (corrected?)



I just meant that women are not alone in not using condoms, and I know it is the person using his penis that really needs to do the right thing.
they are also the one least likely to want to, for selfish (more pleasure) reasons.
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:59 PM   #66
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linking anonymous sex to the liberation from traditional gender roles is rather faulty
Your beef is with the article, dude. Not me.

As to the rest of your post, I will re-quote AliEnvy, who said it better.

"Hedonism isn't empowering and it isn't sexy. Female chauvinist pigs are still chauvinist pigs. Careless disregard/disrespect for oneself and others is nasty no matter which gender displays it. "

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Old 04-26-2010, 04:31 PM   #67
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Your beef is with the article, dude. Not me.

As to the rest of your post, I will re-quote AliEnvy, who said it better.

"Hedonism isn't empowering and it isn't sexy. Female chauvinist pigs are still chauvinist pigs. Careless disregard/disrespect for oneself and others is nasty no matter which gender displays it. "



you said:

Quote:
Of course, since men have traditionally been the ones to play, the question is whether feminism has merely become "let's do things the way men do."

Which, in the case of sex with anonymous strangers, feels like a race to the bottom.

and i pointed out that hedonism feels much more unsettling when it's done by women rather than men, which does speak precisely to double standards.

i don't particularly have a beef with you or the article, i have a beef with notions that any woman who is acting in a certain way that goes contrary to traditional gender roles is merely doing so because she's trying to prove something. is this true for some women? of course. in general, are women less comfortable with anonymous sex than men? yes, that's been my experience. but am i going to say that i'd rather live in a world where a women -- if she so chooses -- can go out and get laid if she wants and not be called a slut and a whore, yes absolutely.

what we want is healthy sexuality, and that comes in many forms, not formulas.
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Old 04-26-2010, 04:34 PM   #68
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barebacking = anal sex with no condom (corrected?)
when it's used in gay parlance, yes, but when you're talking about straight people, it just means no condom at all, anal or vaginal.

"barebacking" is quite a point of discussion in the gay community. many don't like the term because it pathologizes (and thusly eroticizes) a specific form of intercourse. but that's a long digression.



Quote:
I just meant that women are not alone in not using condoms, and I know it is the person using his penis that really needs to do the right thing.
they are also the one least likely to want to, for selfish (more pleasure) reasons.
i was making ironical commentary -- the idea that birth control is the "woman's responsibility," etc. we're on the same wavelength.
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:08 PM   #69
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hedonism feels much more unsettling when it's done by women rather than men, which does speak precisely to double standards.
Exactly; that newspaper knew an article about "hedonistic" girls would be the best way to get hands wringing and maxims spouting, and we're all dutifully playing right along. When people in general (and parents in particular) proclaim that such behavior is unhealthy, wrong, or questionable regardless of which gender engages in it--and of course, most people who proclaim such generally do--all too often it's just lip service, a hypothetical evenhandedness not reflected in their actions (whose transgressions evoke the most anxiety, the most emphatic judgment, and the most urgent corrective response?). These contradictions do not go unnoticed by girls, and among other consequences can provoke exactly the sort of reactive reckless behavior they most mean to control. Even for the young woman who's mature enough to attain full ownership of and responsibility for her own values, choices, and actions concerning sexuality despite the mixed messages, the resulting sense of alienation and distrust can be destructive in other ways. That's why the double standard is an important feminist issue, not because "liberation" consists of imitating whatever men stereotypically do--not really possible anyhow, in the absence of a masculine self-concept.
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:14 PM   #70
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Yolland, it is lovely to have you back around these parts.
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:47 PM   #71
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and i pointed out that hedonism feels much more unsettling when it's done by women rather than men, which does speak precisely to double standards.
So let's discuss an article about male hedonism. Yolland's point is well-taken; it is less likely for men to be criticized for irresponsible or objectifying sexual activity.

That doesn't mean that such activity shouldn't be criticized, however.
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:54 PM   #72
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Exactly; that newspaper knew an article about "hedonistic" girls would be the best way to get hands wringing and maxims spouting, and we're all dutifully playing right along.
Hmmm. i'm not too sure about that. THe UK is just in a different sociocultural space to the US, it takes a lot to get hands wringing these days. Plus the Times readership is socially libertarian anyway (I would guess).
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Old 04-26-2010, 07:04 PM   #73
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regardless, they must be stopped!!!!

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Old 04-26-2010, 09:59 PM   #74
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what we want is healthy sexuality, and that comes in many forms, not formulas.


It's hard to have a serious conversation about double standards when the behaviour described is to see how far you will sexually perform on command for an audience to win a glamour modelling contract.

When I read this bit, all I thought was OMG imagine if a guy said that...

Quote:
The only impediment in their desire to “run” their sex lives was the unfortunate fact that many of the men they met wanted something more. “Men always go soppy on me,” Ruby said.

Bella agreed: “I met this guy in a pub the other night. We had sex once and ... it’s pathetic. We’re lying there ... and he says, ‘Are you going to sleep with other people?’ I thought: who are you; why are you asking me this? Obviously I’m having sex with other people. He decided he loved me; he was texting me and phoning me for days. After having sex once! What’s that about?”

Wasn’t it possible he might have felt a real connection? The girls looked at me, shaking their heads — that isn’t how sex works.

“You don’t get so heavy with someone after one night,” said Ruby.

“I’m much more attracted to the guys who don’t really give a shit,” said Anna.

“God, yeah, there’s nothing attractive about a guy who gets all emotional on you,” said Bella.
As I see it, there is a distinction between the morality of consensual, safe, respectful casual sex (or other sexual freedoms) and the sexual ethics of mistreating yourself and other people.

And as I said earlier, I believe the media in general and this article in particular grossly exaggerrates or presents a narrow view.
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Old 04-26-2010, 11:49 PM   #75
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Found this blog post that covers many of my thoughts on the subject more articulately than I can.

Is ‘raunch culture’ real? Young adults on media and casual sex � The Sex Myth
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