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Old 04-24-2010, 07:37 PM   #46
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From the same article:

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“But it’s everywhere. I mean, if you put on the television, every other music video has half-naked women dancing around. It’s just like you don’t have any choice — you feel that as you grow up you have to start dressing that way, acting that way — that there is no other way to behave.”



She is angry that she is growing up in this milieu. “It’s all casual sex now; nobody talks about love,” she said. “I wish I could have a real connection with a man. But there’s no courtship any more. That’s all dead. It’s just immediate. There’s no getting to know someone; you’re expected just to look someone up and down and make the decision just like that: are you going to have sex or not?



“There’s no time to build up a connection. The idea is that you have sex first, but how are you meant to create the kind of excitement, the emotional connection, after that? I want to have an emotional connection with a man. I want it to be there with the feeling that I am equal to him. I do think I’m as good as a man. But I don’t want just this no-strings sex stuff.”
This is what I want - a relationship. Call me a prude, a freak or whatever, but I don't believe in one-night stands with a stranger. I could never bring myself to that. I want to be loved and respected by a man. If that is old-fashioned, then so be it.
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Old 04-24-2010, 07:55 PM   #47
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This is what I want - a relationship. Call me a prude, a freak or whatever, but I don't believe in one-night stands with a stranger. I could never bring myself to that. I want to be loved and respected by a man. If that is old-fashioned, then so be it.
It's probably not as old-fashioned as you think. There are plenty of guys who want that too. I find most of what's in the media and what's in that passage grossly exaggerrated. Do your friends act like that? Feel that level of pressure to indulge in casual sex? I would find that surprising.
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Old 04-24-2010, 07:56 PM   #48
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Has that girl you just quoted turned to women now? For those reasons?
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Old 04-24-2010, 07:57 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Pearl View Post
From the same article:

This is what I want - a relationship. Call me a prude, a freak or whatever, but I don't believe in one-night stands with a stranger. I could never bring myself to that. I want to be loved and respected by a man. If that is old-fashioned, then so be it.
You're not a prude or a freak but you probably had a bit of bad luck in relationships and might be a bit old-fashioned by modern mores and standards. Doesn't mean they're right by any means. I think you're right and modern standards are wrong but I am really not the best person to be advising on this kind of stuff!
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Old 04-24-2010, 08:17 PM   #50
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You're the only one who can decide what's "right." My definition of personal "right" is whatever I'm comfortable with.
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Old 04-25-2010, 12:24 AM   #51
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i think these girls make for great copy, but to think they are the rule rather than the exception is probably not accurate, no matter the culture (UK or US).

i think girls today are more liberated from traditional virgin/whore roles when it comes to sex, and i have to think that's a good thing. and i also have to think that ultimately it is a good thing that a girl has permission to be a player.

now, we can have a discussion about whether or not it's good to be a player, but the fact that it has become untethered to gender has to be seen as something of a good thing, imho.
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Old 04-25-2010, 02:57 AM   #52
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i think girls today are more liberated from traditional virgin/whore roles when it comes to sex, and i have to think that's a good thing. and i also have to think that ultimately it is a good thing that a girl has permission to be a player.

now, we can have a discussion about whether or not it's good to be a player, but the fact that it has become untethered to gender has to be seen as something of a good thing, imho.
Of course, since men have traditionally been the ones to play, the question is whether feminism has merely become "let's do things the way men do."

Which, in the case of sex with anonymous strangers, feels like a race to the bottom.
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Old 04-25-2010, 03:45 AM   #53
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Why does homosexuality have to be about sex with anonymous strangers all of a sudden? That's not what's "liberating" about it. The liberation is in the form of not being shamed about relationships, not about sex with random people.
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Old 04-25-2010, 04:04 AM   #54
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Has that girl you just quoted turned to women now? For those reasons?
Are you being sarcastic?
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Old 04-25-2010, 04:43 AM   #55
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Despite the choice of that attention-getting quote for a headline, reading the article all the way through gives the impression that this "promiscuity" has in fact come about as a reaction against the perceived uptightness of feminists concerning sexuality.
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Of course, since men have traditionally been the ones to play, the question is whether feminism has merely become "let's do things the way men do."
Not really; the question is whether women are disproportionately stigmatized and/or scrutinized for behavior which in reality both sexes have always engaged in. The distinction matters a good deal when you're the one on the receiving end of that greater stigma or scrutiny.
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Old 04-25-2010, 11:56 AM   #56
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the question is whether women are disproportionately stigmatized and/or scrutinized for behavior which in reality both sexes have always engaged in.
Of course, but when you're someone who has a problem with promiscuity in general, regardless of which sex engages in it, you're going to have a different perspective.
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Old 04-25-2010, 07:22 PM   #57
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reading the article all the way through gives the impression that this "promiscuity" has in fact come about as a reaction against the perceived uptightness of feminists concerning sexuality.
Or just a gross misinterpretation of sexual empowerment.

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the ideal of liberated sex in the 1960s was about really loving and valuing your body and being proud of it. (my edit - not selling it to the highest bidder) Now there is a toxic mix, for young girls, of feeling they have to be sexually active but also feeling very critical of their bodies. So they will have lots of sex, but without pleasure or pride.”

“Feminism is now seen as sexual promiscuity, which is such a narrow view of empowerment. Liberation isn’t just about promiscuity. For some women, liberation may be about having a new sexual partner every week, but for a lot of women it will be about finding someone to be with for your whole life, growing together over the years, and you never hear about that any more.

“What liberation means to me is that in any sexual relationship you are cherished and you cherish.”
Hedonism isn't empowering and it isn't sexy. Female chauvinist pigs are still chauvinist pigs. Careless disregard/disrespect for oneself and others is nasty no matter which gender displays it.
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Old 04-26-2010, 11:28 AM   #58
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Of course, since men have traditionally been the ones to play, the question is whether feminism has merely become "let's do things the way men do."

Which, in the case of sex with anonymous strangers, feels like a race to the bottom.


linking anonymous sex to the liberation from traditional gender roles is rather faulty, so all you're doing here is continuing the patriarchal virgin/whore good-girls-say-no paradigm that destroys the self-esteem of so many young women and perpetuates precisely the double-standards that feminism sought to eradicate.

i understand that women making their own decisions about sex -- and not necessarily following whatever rules their fathers may have laid out for them -- is unsettling, but that's probably why most men don't know what it feels like for a girl.
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:16 PM   #59
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linking anonymous sex to the liberation from traditional gender roles is rather faulty, so all you're doing here is continuing the patriarchal virgin/whore good-girls-say-no paradigm that destroys the self-esteem of so many young women and perpetuates precisely the double-standards that feminism sought to eradicate.

i understand that women making their own decisions about sex -- and not necessarily following whatever rules their fathers may have laid out for them -- is unsettling, but that's probably why most men don't know what it feels like for a girl.
Do you consider self-contol, no matter what gender or orientation, to be a virtue?
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:47 PM   #60
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Do you consider self-contol, no matter what gender or orientation, to be a virtue?


i consider it to be a sign of maturity -- the ability to delay gratification might be the surest way to be successful in life.

however, as Yolland calmly pointed out, we have traditionally asked our girls to exhibit a self-control that we would never have asked our boys, and we enforce this among our girls by designating them as either proverbial "virgins" or "whores."

i think we'd like to believe that women only sleep around because they've been misled by the media and Madonna, or that they have daddy issues, but the reality might be that lots of women really just like to fuck.

is that so bad? i know lots of men who just like to fuck. why should girls be any different? did we tell ourselves that there were differences so that men could continue to control their god-given property?
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