What on earth are police doing with Tasers?? - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

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Old 11-23-2007, 06:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by trevster2k


Ban the taser!
Would you rather them use guns?
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Old 11-24-2007, 07:47 AM   #17
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The taser was represented as a supposedly non-lethal device to be used in situations as an alternative to guns. This is not the case anymore as police aren't using it situations which require a gun. Would they have popped a couple into Robert Dziekanski? Or that student at the John Kerry speech and so on. They are using it in situations where a non-lethal force could have been used almost without thinking about it. Cops have never been trigger happy in the past but apparently, thanks to the taser many situations which never would have required guns are deemed taserworthy.

Until they train and teach ALL police to use this in ONLY those situations, they should not be using it. Yeah, there is all this crap from the company saying the taser is not causing deaths, but I think it is fair to say, if the person was not tasered, their "previous condition" or heart attack would not have caused death at that incident. Of course, some think that all the people being tasered are the dregs of society and deserve it so no loss if they die. There has to be a higher standard in determining its use.

The RCMP has been involved in a number of incidents recently which are not worthy of the RCMP I remember. The death of Douglas Scott was a direct result of poor policy by the RCMP. The shooting in Houston, BC was also a result of poor policy or poor training. The pension fund scandal with the ineffective leadership of Zaccaradelli at the helm of our national police force was a disgrace. Not to mention the lying about the Maher Arar incident during the inquiries and the whole incident itself. This is not the RCMP that most Canadians remember. It has huge problems ranging from ineffective training and policies to corruptness at the executive level. We, as citizens, are allowed to criticize our police force and expect better despite knowing or not knowing "jackshit" about the force. And people are allowed to support the RCMP carte blanche too. I suspect there are many disgruntled RCMP officers out there who do excellent work but feel exactly as I do about the overall force. Just as anyone who works for a company where they know things should be run better would feel. The RCMP does an awesome job but they aren't the feel good image of Canada anymore.

A couple of years ago, the police snipered a guy on a public street in front of thousands of people. He had an innocent bystander woman held with a gun to her head after he ran from a local mall. He had just tried to beat his ex-wife to death. The police determined it was better to take him out rather than risk the death of the woman after trying to negotiate with him. I got no problem with how that was handled because on rare occasions lethal force is necessary. It was broadcast live on Canadian tv too. I do have a problem with this "can I taser him?" mentality growing in law enforcement.

Is the taser supposed to be an alternative to a gun or an alternative to physical force and restraint by police? It seems more like the latter.
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Old 11-24-2007, 01:11 PM   #18
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But anything when used improperly can become lethal, if you beat someone hard enough a baton is lethal.

It's poor training and the fact that any security guard can carry one, that's the problem.
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Old 11-24-2007, 05:01 PM   #19
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It's a training and attitude problem, not a taser problem. A billy club is a non-leathal weapon to a point; most everything is, for god's sake.
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Old 11-24-2007, 05:56 PM   #20
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yeah two girls who were fighting @ my high schools football game were taserd by cops just thought id share

and now civilians can buy them
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Old 11-24-2007, 06:41 PM   #21
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Bad as it is, better to be mistakenly shocked than shot.
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Old 11-24-2007, 10:40 PM   #22
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Not too many people have been beaten to death by the RCMP in recent years. Some have been dropped off in the middle of winter on the outskirts of a major city but not beaten to death. Police brutality is a different issue altogether.

Please go to your nearest law enforcement detachment, ask to get tasered and let me know how it turns out.

I hope no one you know ever gets tasered for being perceived as a threat. It was supposedly non-lethal and safe despite claims to the contrary by concerned groups. The taser has gone from being introduced as an alternative to a gun to being a viable option in breaking up a fight between two teenage girls. It will get worse before it gets better, if it gets better at all.

I'm done.
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Old 11-25-2007, 12:09 PM   #23
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I'm with BVS & Habs. Poorly trained cops with tasers = bad. The taser alone is ony a tool.
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Old 11-25-2007, 02:03 PM   #24
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But that position is essentially the same as Charleton Heston's famous 'There are no good guns, there are no bad guns. A gun in the hands of a bad person is a bad thing. A gun in the hands of a good person is no threat to anyone except bad people' statement.
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Old 11-25-2007, 02:32 PM   #25
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But that's sort of true...at least at face value. The problem is, there's no way to keep guns out of the hands of bad people, unstable people, or little kids who fnd them on the top shelf of the closet.

Same reasons making tasers available to the general public is an extremely bad idea.
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Old 11-25-2007, 06:05 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by CTU2fan
But that's sort of true...at least at face value. The problem is, there's no way to keep guns out of the hands of bad people, unstable people, or little kids who fnd them on the top shelf of the closet.

Same reasons making tasers available to the general public is an extremely bad idea.
QFT

You know, except, maybe, gee ... making them illegal?
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Old 11-25-2007, 06:31 PM   #27
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Yeah, because when guns are illegal nobody is able to get hold of them, just like drugs and prostitutes.
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Old 11-25-2007, 06:40 PM   #28
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I didn't say no one would be able to get a hold of them, and I didn't compare them to drugs and prostitutes.
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Old 11-27-2007, 03:54 PM   #29
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I don think they should be using devices that kill people when they are only trying to calm them down...
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Old 11-30-2007, 09:40 AM   #30
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abcnews.com

Pregnant Woman's Tasering Probed
FBI, Ohio Cops Investigate Nov. 18 Incident After Complaint Filed
By DAVID SCHOETZ

Nov. 29, 2007 —

The FBI and an Ohio police department are investigating an incident in which a pregnant woman was stunned with a Taser inside the lobby of a police station after refusing to answer an officer's question and ultimately resisting arrest.

The two investigations began after Richard Jones, president of the Ohio chapter of the Rev. Al Sharpton's National Action Network, called in a complaint to the Trotwood Police Department, Trotwood public safety director Michael Etter told ABC News.

Surveillance video of the incident, which took place on the morning of Nov. 18, shows a woman identified in a police incident report as Valreca Redden, 33, in the lobby of the suburban Dayton police station with her 1-year-old son.

Redden, according to Etter, had come to the police station to ask police to take custody of her child. When officer Michael Wilmer asked why, the woman reportedly would only say that "she's tired of playing games" with the baby's father.

"At this point, they had a little more discussion that went nowhere," Etter said, recounting the incident. "She says, 'I'm leaving.'"

Etter, who repeatedly emphasized to ABC News that Wilmer had no idea the Valreca was pregnant, said that the officer then explained that she could not leave without further explanation. He took hold of the child with one arm, Etter said, and pushed the woman down with the other.

When a second officer arrived, Wilmer handed over the 1-year-old and attempted to handcuff Valreca. She began to resist, Etter said, at which point he "employed what is called a 'drive stun'" on the back of her neck.

"If he were to take the baby and have her leave, we don't know who the baby is," Etter said. "There's certain information that he's responsible for. I think the officer made the right decision in detaining her." Wilmer remains on duty.

The Taser model used by the Trotwood police force, according to Etter, can either be fired like a gun or pressed against a target to deploy.

Valreca was charged with obstructing official business and resisting arrest. It was not until the woman, wearing a heavy coat, was being checked out by jail staff that officers learned she was pregnant, Etter said. At that point, she was transported directly to the hospital.

Jones, from Sharpton's National Action Network, called to complain about the incident, claiming that police violated Ohio's "safe haven" law and that the woman should have been able to simply drop the 1-year-old without questions from police. Etter explained that the state statute applies only to children 72 hours old or younger.

Jones, who did not immediately return a phone call from ABC News, also informed Etter that he would be contacting the FBI, Etter said. Etter did the same, and the FBI has said it will investigate the incident.

For its part, he said, the department wants to see if its Taser policy is proper. "We're investigating a lot of different things," Etter said. "But No. 1 is force."

According to a copy of Trotwood Police Department General Orders, police officers are encouraged to "greatly evaluate each situation with discretion" before using a Taser on a child, elderly person or pregnant woman.

Tianesha Robinson, 33, was pregnant in 2006 when she was jolted by a stun gun in Kansas after she allegedly resisted arrest during a traffic stop. Robinson ultimately had a miscarriage, according to The Associated Press, but doctors could not conclusively link the Taser to the woman losing the baby.

Another woman, Cindy Grippi, delivered a stillborn girl in December 2001 after California police hit her with a Taser. A medical examiner never determined the cause of the child's death, which could have been traced to the woman's methamphetamine usage. Still, the city of Chula Vista settled a lawsuit with the woman for $675,000, according to the AP.

Authorities in Utah are probing a recent Taser incident in which motorist Jared Massey was struck by the device after allegedly disobeying an officer's requests. Massey, who filed a complaint with Utah authorities about the trooper's use of force, posted the dashboard camera video of the confrontation on YouTube last week. The incident sparked a new round debate.

Canadian officials continue to investigate the case of Robert Dziekanski, a Polish immigrant who died after he was hit by a Taser at the Vancouver International Airport in October. The four police officers involved in that incident, which also was caught on surveillance tape, have since been reassigned to different posts. Eighteen people have died in Canada after being hit with a Taser in the last four years, according to the Canadian federal police.

The human rights organization Amnesty International, which urges more restraint by law enforcement when choosing to discharge the devices, cited 250 cases in the United States in the last six years in which a suspect died after being hit with a Taser. Those statistics, however, do not track whether the shock actually caused the deaths.

Taser International Inc., the company that manufactures Tasers, claims that the device can only be tied to 12 deaths but does recognize that pregnant women are at more risk of danger if hit by one of the devices.
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