We're due for a breast feeding discussion

[Jive Turkey]

Cover up a little? How? Cower in a corner with an arm awkwardly shielding one's chest, awkwardly pull ones top up while trying to hold a baby too... I mean, by saying 'cover up a little' might as well mean 'don't do it in public.'
I don't think there's anything wrong with finding breasts attractive... but as soon as this attraction is preventing women from breast feeding comfortably, then it's an issue.

Its for compromise sake and I dont think thats such a bad thing. Some people (men and women!) feel uncomfortable around it. And you know what? just like theres nothing wrong with feeding in public, theres nothing wrong with finding it uncomfortable. For a woman to just pull a breast out without even attempting to keep it somewhat concealed for the comfort of others is just as selfish and self righteous and those who say keep it in the home. There is a middle ground

 

[A_Wanderer]

You didnt read my post. I said I didnt have a problem with it. Why not just cover up a little though? Its really not a big deal.....And men finding breasts attractive isnt the juvenile pursuit that you seem to think of it as. Its got nothing to do with being an institution. Men all over the globe find women's breasts attractive in a sexual way. Like it or hate it, its part of nature

An immodest woman is like uncovered meat, and must be responsible for getting unwanted attention.

A few orders of magnitude greater than your plea for modesty, but it comes from a similar place.

 

[Jive Turkey]

An immodest woman is like uncovered meat, and must be responsible for getting unwanted attention.

A few orders of magnitude greater than your plea for modesty, but it comes from a similar place.

Please read my post just previous to yours....I'll admit, modesty was the wrong word. I think my other post better demonstrates what i was getting at








And for the record, you'll never find me complaining when females show too much skin.

 

[pgv]

No, jive turkey, I think A_Wanderer hit the nail on the head there You either agree with it or disagree, there isn't a middle ground.

 

[Jive Turkey]

No, jive turkey, I think A_Wanderer hit the nail on the head there You either agree with it or disagree, there isn't a middle ground.

No....He didnt.....There is middle ground. The fact that you cant see that puts you in the same group of self righteousness as the people opposed to it. Why is it so hard to make a SLIGHT compromise for other peoples feelings around you? why is your comfort more important than theirs? I have no ill feelings toward public breast feeding. Pull them out if you like. But if you dont think its rude to do it in a restaurant while people are eating who might be put off, then there is little i can say to you because you clearly refuse to think about anyone but yourself

 

[pgv]

I just don't understand what sort of a person would be put off from eating at the sight of a breast? Are you that disgusted by the female form that you can't cope with something perfectly natural going on your vicinity... why can't you avert your eyes if you're so repulsed? Why must the women be made to feel she's doing something wrong when you're the one feeling uncomfortable with it?

 

[Jive Turkey]

And A_Wanderer, from your posts in previous threads, I know you're an intelligent man, but to equate what i just said to female oppression is completely insane. I display the same 'modesty' when I'm at a public urinal. Why? because I'll assume that most of the other men dont want to look at my penis while I'm peeing.

 

[Jive Turkey]

I just don't understand what sort of a person would be put off from eating at the sight of a breast? Are you that disgusted by the female form that you can't cope with something perfectly natural going on your vicinity... why can't you avert your eyes if you're so repulsed? Why must the women be made to feel she's doing something wrong when you're the one feeling uncomfortable with it?

Look, I dont think its wrong. And I dont think a woman should feel that its wrong. All I'm asking is for people to think about how others feel for a change. Its not always about you (thats a general you, not you in particular). I dont think its such a difficult concept.


And I'm sorry if I got a little carried away with the last post. I always post when I'm all riled up, then feel bad about it afterward. I'm sure you're a great person

 

[pgv]

And A_Wanderer, from your posts in previous threads, I know you're an intelligent man, but to equate what i just said to female oppression is completely insane. I display the same 'modesty' when I'm at a public urinal. Why? because I'll assume that most of the other men dont want to look at my penis while I'm peeing.

A PENIS IS NOT EQUIVOCAL TO A BREAST! A vagina, yes, but not a breast!

Look, I dont think its wrong. And I dont think a woman should feel that its wrong. All I'm asking is for people to think about how others feel for a change. Its not always about you (thats a general you, not you in particular). I dont think its such a difficult concept.


And I'm sorry if I got a little carried away with the last post. I always post when I'm all riled up, then feel bad about it afterward. I'm sure you're a great person

I see what you're saying... but you obviously do find something wrong with it if you think you've got to cover it up. As I've just said, there's little middle ground here and either you do accept it in public or you don't. Asking women to do it 'modestly' is basically asking a woman not to do it.

I don't take any of this personally and neither should you

 

[A_Wanderer]

I never equated it in harshness, but I felt that you're use of language emerged from the same sort of place, breast feeding isn't that off putting. As far as public urinals go, I assume that the other bloke isn't looking; eyes forward and no talking is a very simple rule to abide by.

I think that I'm just a bit attached to the issue of breasts in public after reading the Reverend Fred Nile has gotten some political allies for his effort of banning topless sunbathing on Australian beaches.

On another topic it has been established that breast feeding improves brain development and child IQ, I'd definitely want my potential progeny to be breast fed.

 

[Jive Turkey]

A PENIS IS NOT EQUIVOCAL TO A BREAST! A vagina, yes, but not a breast!



I see what you're saying... but you obviously do find something wrong with it if you think you've got to cover it up. As I've just said, there's little middle ground here and either you do accept it in public or you don't. Asking women to do it 'modestly' is basically asking a woman not to do it.

I don't take any of this personally and neither should you

Fair enough, though I personally really dont have a problem with it, I just empathize with the people that do I suppose (for better or worse). But regardless, we could argue to no end and not sway one another. But thats cool. It was refreshing to talk about something other than "OMG U2 STOLE FROM TINA TURNER" (I shit you not). I'll probably check this place out more often. Good convo guys, I'm outta here for now

Oh, and A_Wanderer

As far as public urinals go, I assume that the other bloke isn't looking.

you never know............you never know

 

[MooMoo!]

"OMG U2 STOLE FROM TINA TURNER"

Lol whut?

 

[Dreadsox]

How about breast feeding and driving ?

 

[U2DMfan]

I just don't understand what sort of a person would be put off from eating at the sight of a breast? Are you that disgusted by the female form that you can't cope with something perfectly natural going on your vicinity... why can't you avert your eyes if you're so repulsed? Why must the women be made to feel she's doing something wrong when you're the one feeling uncomfortable with it?

I think it stems from the same reason parents lose their shit when a 'curse' word is uttered on TV.

It forces them to communicate with their kids, and could cause them embarrassment, either in that conversation or in the resulting actions of their own child because they didn't lay down the law hard enough, or well reasoned enough.

In other words, it's an entirely selfish reason.

 

[Zoomerang96]

No, jive turkey, I think A_Wanderer hit the nail on the head there You either agree with it or disagree, there isn't a middle ground.

haha!

nope, that's right. no middle ground, gang!

 

[pgv]

haha!

nope, that's right. no middle ground, gang!

... either you're for it or you're not, basically.

I think it stems from the same reason parents lose their shit when a 'curse' word is uttered on TV.

It forces them to communicate with their kids, and could cause them embarrassment, either in that conversation or in the resulting actions of their own child because they didn't lay down the law hard enough, or well reasoned enough.

In other words, it's an entirely selfish reason.

Yes, I agree with this.

 

[Dreadsox]

I like warm Guinness from the tap - and nobody gets pissed. My kids deserves the same treatment.

 

[Zoomerang96]

intellectualism is at its finest when answers on such matters can be answered with "either you're for it or you're not, basically."

how the fucking hell can anyone even begin to debate with such a ridiculous attitude?

 

[Jive Turkey]

I think my problem has less to do about the issue of breast feeding in public than it does with the "well its my right and you have no business telling me otherwise" mentality. Its like when I was a kid and used to hold my hands REALLY close to my sisters face. She'd be yelling at me to stop, but I'd always say "I'm not touching you. you cant do anything about it. I can put my hands here if i want". Sure I had a right to do that. My sister didnt own the space 2 inches from her nose, but it wasnt very considerate of me (though sadistically satisfying at the time). Its a stretch to place that lack of consideration onto a nursing mother and yes, theres an element of lack of consideration on the other side too. But I dont know. Maybe its a completely new topic all together, though it might be too broad to discuss. I'm going to be completely ignorant right now and say that there seems to be a great deal of that in the States. A whole lot of "well, the constitution says I can do this, so fuck off" (I'm sure my views are skewed due to the large percentage of American media thats broadcast up here). Like the NRA holding a rally in a town shortly after a school shooting to reenforce the fact that its an American's right to own a gun. Yes, we realize its your right, but show a little bit of tact. Now before anyone jumps all over me, I'm not claiming that breast feeding in public lies anywhere NEAR the same ballpark as that. Its relatively benign...I'm just kind of writing stream of consciousness...and rambling, no doubt. Anyway, anyone have any thoughts or is there not even much to comment on?

 

[DreamOutLoud13]

Hey Jive Turkey, can I ask you something. Would you also be bothered by a non-breastfeeding woman exposing her breasts in public? Because... I hate to break it to you, but that's perfectly legal in your city.

It's only our westernized society that has a huge problem with this, and I can't help but think that it has something to do with men's oversexualization of the breast, obsession with porn, and distaste at seeing breasts used for their natural function instead of as sexual objects. Breasts are sexualized all over the planet, but in the third world, breastfeeding is much, much, MUCH more common and not seen as icky by men and women alike, and thus no one is bothered by it.

But let's talk about covering up a little. I don't think a woman should necessarily flap all her boobage out in public in order to breastfeed, and most don't, not in public. I'm sure at least 80% of nursing mothers out there will cover up to some extent.
I'm not a mother and have never nursed a baby, but I do have experience handling them. With the "blanket over the shoulder" technique, the mother would hold the baby in a cradle hold/nursing position, toss the blanket over one shoulder (not hard to do with one hand), then under the blanket, expose the breast and give it to the baby.
However, I do agree that the blanket method can be uncomfortable, both physically and emotionally for both mother and baby. But, it's not necessary anyway! Hundreds of companies have invented nursing wear, and I've never known a single nursing mother who didn't buy some nursing tops to use when in public.

Lastly, let's look at a couple of photo examples. Which of these photos is more sexual/dirty:

According to most public decency laws and the FCC rules for television, the nipple/areola is the only part of the breast that must be concealed. The rest can be flaunted far and wide. But, when breastfeeding, LESS of the breast is exposed than if a woman were wearing pasties. In fact, the amount of the breast typically exposed is no more than if a woman were wearing a very low cut top. The baby's mouth covers quite a bit of the extra "exposed" flesh.

So why does every one think it's so dirty? It can't be because they don't think women should be exposing the top part of their breasts. Certainly no one has a problem with women doing that on every TV show and magazine cover. No, the problem is not with the breasts, it's with the babies hanging off of them. But we can fix that:

The same amount of breast exposure, WITHOUT a baby, isn't dirty for some reason. Imagine that.

 

[U2DMfan]

Which of these photos is more sexual/dirty:

Madonna's cleavage. Nice and meaty 90's Madonna.
Nowadays she looks like Skeletor with a wig and a muscle skin suit.

Oh, you meant the other photos?

 

[Jive Turkey]

Hey DreamOutLoud13 ,

I dont have any problem with breast displayed in public at all. I know its legal in my city (hell, I was about 19 when the law was passed, so I was ALL about it ) Thats not really my issue (the more boobies the merrier if you ask me). If you read a page or two back, you'll see where I stand. However, I have to disagree with the term 'oversexualization' when talking about breasts. I dont think its fair to chalk up men's obsession (or even just desire) of breasts as being juvenile or a product of society. Its not a contrived notion for men to be attracted to them. Its not a coincidence that men all over the planet are attracted to them. There are subliminal signals sent that a woman with large breasts is fertile and therefor would make a suitable mate (according to some researchers). Its hardwired into our brains to find the shape of them arousing. its seen as superficial if a man finds a woman's breasts attractive, yet if he says the same woman has a pretty face, its okay. How is it any different? They're just different parts of the same person. I just dont think its fair to raise the 'breasts arent meant as sexual objects' argument. I think its clear just by the fact that we're talking about it, that there is in fact a sexual aspect to them. Also, raising the cultural aspect of it is not entirely fair either. Cultures differ tremendously and there are many practices in some countries that westerners would find offputting and vice versa. Bidays arent common in north america, yet there are some cultures that would find that gross....Anway, my stance isnt against a woman's right to breastfeed in public. Its in defense of other people's right to be uncomfortable around it and to have their feelings taken into consideration as well

 

[LJT]

This reminds me of all the baby clinics i've been at, where mothers have been quite comfortable to breast feed, and hey guys i've managed to keep it in my trousers and not feel uncomfortable in anyway....that may also be because there's loads of screaming babies driving me mad, but that's my two cents. Baby clinics can be quite fun, well babies are amusing

I also had a biology teacher who drove breast feeding into my head 'make sure your wife breast feeds', she would go way off track in class on it, but twas always good, especially considering we were an all boy school.

Plus now in baby clinic I have to positively enforce breast feeding in new mums and old ones for that matter.

 

[DreamOutLoud13]

Madonna's cleavage. Nice and meaty 90's Madonna.
Nowadays she looks like Skeletor with a wig and a muscle skin suit.

That photo is from 2004

Its in defense of other people's right to be uncomfortable around it and to have their feelings taken into consideration as well

It's not hard to avert your eyes. There's plenty going on in the world that make other people uncomfortable. We can't cover it all up with a blanket, sometimes we just have to look away.

 

[anitram]

I always thought this was kind of a stupid, overblown argument/discussion anyway. How many mothers do you know that are not very discreet? I know that all my friends/relatives with babies would almost always totally cover the baby with a blanket (sometimes to the baby's chagrin!), or would breastfeed in such a manner that you honestly had no idea they were doing it. I've also never been in public, whether it be a mall or a restaurant and had a woman just strip down and start breastfeeding as if she were on a nude beach.

So either people who are bothered live in places where attitudes towards breastfeeding are markedly different than the ones I've encountered, or this is just a manufactured outrage thing.

 

[the tourist]

intellectualism is at its finest when answers on such matters can be answered with "either you're for it or you're not, basically."

how the fucking hell can anyone even begin to debate with such a ridiculous attitude?

I agree with this.




Because, after all, only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes. m i rite?

 

[Zoomerang96]

I agree with this.




Because, after all, only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes. m i rite?

urrrrrrr riiiiiiite.

~tony da tiger.

 

[Zoomerang96]

I always thought this was kind of a stupid, overblown argument/discussion anyway. How many mothers do you know that are not very discreet? I know that all my friends/relatives with babies would almost always totally cover the baby with a blanket (sometimes to the baby's chagrin!), or would breastfeed in such a manner that you honestly had no idea they were doing it. I've also never been in public, whether it be a mall or a restaurant and had a woman just strip down and start breastfeeding as if she were on a nude beach.

So either people who are bothered live in places where attitudes towards breastfeeding are markedly different than the ones I've encountered, or this is just a manufactured outrage thing.

manufactured outrage at free your mind?

that'd be a first...

 

[Dirty Olde Town]

Wow. Interesting. Breasts are not erogenous zones? This is news to me. Seems to me that a lot of women who enjoy -- and feel sexual about -- having their breasts fondled, licked, and sucked by adults of either sexes haven't got this news flash. They're /both/. One doesn't take precedence over the other. Like the penis and vagina have more than one function. It depends on the situation you're using them for.
Obviously, a woman doesn't have an orgasm (that I know of, having never breastfed) while breastfeeding, but I would imagine most women who breastfeed aren't exactly repulsed by the sensation of their baby breastfeeding. Pleasant hormones to make a woman want to feed her kid, or somesuch.

And oh yes, I did see the nursing blouses. Very pretty. But it wasn't really answering my point -- which was that I don't get the anti-blanket on baby's head when breastfeeding argument, when I've seen babies with blankets over their faces at many, many other times, indoors or out. It doesn't make sense. If you're going to insist on a blanket shrouding a baby's head at any other time, then the baby should be all right with a blanket on his head at that time. Not that I personally agree with blanketing a kid's head, and can even see where it's probably nicer to be able to see your baby's face while feeding him or her. Discretion, though, IS a good thing. Like those shirts. Or finding a way to do it so your boob isn't waving around (which, obviously, 99 percent of breastfeeding mothers DO do) for others to see.

We have to remember the selective squeamishness of Americans, retarded as it is. We also have to educate selectively squeamish Americans that breasts both titillate and feed.

 

[Galeongirl]

Actually I've heard it's mostly uncomfortable. During the pregnancy the nipple area gets really sensitive and may hurt a lot, and babies won't make that any less!