We're due for a breast feeding discussion

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I did believe that this existed in other cultures, just not in the US. Some people think it's "disgusting" and "weird" and I don't know how many people can ever get past that here. The breast is just far too oversexualized, maybe some people are threatened somehow by it being something else.

Looking for this one I was reading through another breast feeding thread here (my champion one :D). Good times.
 
I thought it was still common, even in the US, to sometimes have newborns breastfed by other women in the ward if their own mother had trouble producing milk, because of the great benefits of the initial feeding?

In any case, I've heard of at least 2 such examples anecdotally, and it didn't sound weird to me at all.
 
Doesn't seem too weird to me either. The only problem is that if a friend is breast-feeding a baby while the mother has to work, that doesn't really help the mother any, she still has to express the milk regularly and could pump it and leave it with whoever is caring for the baby. I used to nanny for very young babies and fed them their mothers' breast milk all the time. They had it in little baggies that fit right into the bottle. It grossed out my friends but it was actually a lot easier than making a formula bottle!
 
This thread reminded me of this from a column in my local paper recently. The paper published several letters in which people disputed the notion that this was inappropriate in any way. When I read it I was saying WTF too. Wouldn't bother me :shrug: and I'm childless.

Where Breast Milk Shouldn't Go
Proper use of the company fridge, plus nosy co-workers, demanding friends, and pushy invites.

July 13, 2008

A co-worker recently returned from maternity leave, and upon opening our office refrigerator today to grab my yogurt, I came face to face with a bottle of what appears to be breast milk, labeled with this woman's name. Although I breast-fed my children and am an ardent supporter of it, I always took pains to be discreet about it at work. If I pumped milk in the office, I stored it in a paper bag or small cooler so others wouldn't see it. What is your take on this? Should we all be exposed to her daily output of breast milk every time we venture to the fridge?

H.M. in Quincy

Your co-worker's behavior is seriously inappropriate, and I hope it can be attributed to the emotional upheaval of having to leave her baby and to the million-and-one things she must be trying to keep track of right now. One does not store bodily fluids - even sacred, precious, life-sustaining bodily fluids - in containers where others might see. Reasonable discretion and unreasonable body shame are not the same thing. Look, you're uncomfortable about this, and you're a breast-feeding veteran; imagine how childless colleagues, male and female, would feel. Worse yet, imagine a colleague both childless and clueless piping up at the morning staff meeting, "Hey, Sue, I ran out of half-and-half. Hope you don't mind I used some of your soy milk!" This must not be allowed to happen under any circumstances. I think you should address the matter with her, since you have lactation cred yourself, and she won't think you're a child- or body-hater. Explain to her how you handled the situation for yourself, and why.

July 18, 2008

I AM curious to know how the person who wrote to Miss Conduct (Globe Sunday Magazine, July 13) came to consider the presence of labeled breast milk in an office refrigerator to be a nearly traumatic "exposure." Unless there are safety issues involved, either to the breast milk, the refrigerator, the viewer, or the mother, how can a small container of breast milk in the office refrigerator be a problem? Is cow's milk in a thermos with someone's name on it equally distressing? I imagine not.

It doesn't seem much to ask that our workplaces accommodate the needs of parents of all sorts, but especially those of nursing mothers. Perhaps a compromise, as Miss Conduct suggested, would involve storing the breast milk in an opaque container, appropriately labeled, and tucked into a lunch box which is then placed in the fridge. Nobody should be snooping around in another's lunch, and any "exposure" on the part of the snooper would be due to his or her own curiosity.
 
LOL, I've seen a LOT WORSE things in our company fridge than some fresh, contained breast milk!!! In our office if something has a name and date on it, it's off limits. So anyone mistaking labeled breast milk for half-and-half is an idiot, but the breast milk is probably healthier for them anyway...
 
It's breast milk that's used to feed a baby for God's sake, and anyone who helps themselves to anyone else's stuff in the workplace fridge deserves what they get anyway :D

It's not as if it's a guy bringing a sample to his doctor and leaving it in the workplace fridge :wink: That's not something you'd expect to find there in ordinary circumstances (unless you work in a really unusual office), whereas the breast milk is.

Ok, nuff said about that.
 
I was thinking of the news story where the mothers had a nurse in protest at an Applebee's after one woman was asked to cover her breast- and therefore the baby's head- with a towel. She said it was cruel to the baby. I disagree. Nursing mothers in public are not ok IMO and if they are, might as well let every girl and woman expose their breasts in the mall. I know a lot of people who nurse and they squeeze the milk into bottles for when they have to be in public. I don't want to sound rude but it's gross. I don't want to be in a resturant and see some woman's boob getting sucked, which is essentially what it is.
Yes, that is essentially what it is. It's what they're there for. It's not gross, it's where we all started.

How is a kid sitting in that resturant seeing a naked boob like this okay and not in a Playboy? It's still there, and doesn't belong in public view, sorry.
I'd tend to say it's healthier to explain to the kid that what the mother is doing is natural and not make a big thing of it, rather than gasp and cover the child's eyes and have them grow up thinking nudity is shameful in all its contexts.

Bring a bottle or cover with a towel in the name of decency.
What's indecent about a breast being used for its primary purpose?
 
kentucky.com

Posted on Thu, Aug. 07, 2008
Berea woman asked to leave McDonald's for breast-feeding
By Sarah Vos


A Berea woman called the police Wednesday after she was asked to leave a McDonald's restaurant because she was breast-feeding her 4-month-old.

Jessica Denny thought the police would enforce a Kentucky law that forbids interfering with a mother breast-feeding in public. Instead, the Berea police officer told her she would be charged with criminal trespass if she didn't leave.

Officers are aware of the 2006 law, but Denny wasn't breast-feeding when the officer arrived, said Berea police Capt. Ken Clark.

“We have to operate on what's going on when we get there,” he said.

Doraine Bailey, who advocated for the state's breast-feeding law, said it's meant to protect nursing women like Denny.

“Law enforcement should have been enforcing a law that says you should not be harassed,” she said.

Later Wednesday, the owner of the Glades Road McDonald's franchise issued a statement to the Herald-Leader saying she deeply regretted the incident.

In the statement, owner Sundae Park said: “It has never been our policy to ask nursing mothers to leave our restaurant. ... I have taken the necessary steps to ensure this mistake does not happen again.”

Still, Denny says she was embarrassed by what happened. She wants the restaurant to apologize and put a sign on its door saying that breast-feeding is allowed.

“People need to be educated,” Denny said. “It's not a perverse thing.”

The incident happened as Kentucky celebrates World Breastfeeding Month, and worldwide, public health officials are celebrating World Breastfeeding Week.

It also illustrates why Kentucky has such low breast-feeding rates, said Bailey, who is also the breast-feeding support-services coordinator for the Lexington-Fayette County Health Department.

“This is a young woman who is taking really good care of her baby and now she is being penalized,” Bailey said. “She should be praised.”

Of the 50 states and the District of Columbia, Kentucky ranks 50th in breast-feeding initiation, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends women breast-feed exclusively for six months and continue to breast-feed for the first year or as long thereafter as they and their babies desire.

Kentucky's law is meant to encourage women to breast-feed, said Sen. Tom Buford, R-Nicholasville, who sponsored the measure. But like many breast-feeding laws, it doesn't carry any penalties. Buford said that lawmakers could add a civil fine of $1,000 or $2,000 to make businesses pay attention.

Denny said she met her mother at McDonald's for breakfast Wednesday morning so her mother could see her only grandson, Spencer Blair.

Dennis Doan, a family friend who joined them, said Denny was sitting across from him and had a large purse on the table in front of her as she nursed her son.

“When she feeds, you can't see nothing,” Doan said. “It's ain't like she exposes herself to the world.”

When the manager came over, she spoke loudly and drew the attention of other customers, Doan said.

Some of them joined in, telling Denny she needed to cover up, Doan said.

Denny said a blanket wasn't an option.

“It's just the way he eats,” she said. “He just pushes the blanket off. And it's hot.”

Bailey said it's quite common for babies to refuse to nurse under a blanket. It's like eating with a napkin on your face.

Denny knew about Kentucky's law because of a mother who was asked to stop nursing at a Lexington Applebee's last year. That incident sparked protests at Applebee's across the nation. Denny wasn't a mother at the time, but she attended a Lexington protest with her stepmother.

Denny said she explained the law but the manager didn't listen. Her son started crying from all the noise. So she, her mother and Doan went to the parking lot and called the police.

When the officer arrived, Denny and the manager were being “very verbal,” and the manager asked Denny to leave, said Clark, the Berea police captain.

That left the officer with little choice, Clark said. Kentucky law says that a person who is asked to leave a business in front of a police officer and doesn't can be charged with trespassing, Clark said.

Denny left rather than be arrested. But she wants people to know she wasn't doing anything wrong. She was feeding her son.

“Nutrition-wise, it's the best I can give him,” Denny said. “And that's what I'm trying to do.”
 
Breast-Feeding Past Infancy: 'I'm Comforting Him'

A Mom Talks About Her Decision to Continue Breast-Feeding Her Older Children

By GWEN GOWEN

Jan. 2, 2009—

Robyn Paul, her husband and their three children look like the classic American family -- until you find out that Tiernan, their kindergartner, is still breast-feeding.

Many people are shocked by the idea of nursing a child who is nearly 6 years old, but Paul remains determined to do what she says is best for her child.

Watch the story tonight on "20/20" at 10 p.m. ET

"In this culture, breasts are viewed as sexual," Paul said. "We use breasts to sell everything from beer to motorcycles, then a toddler is in mom's arms nursing for what they're supposed to be used for and everybody freaks out."

No one is sure how many women in the United States are breast-feeding older children, but Paul said she suspects the number is higher than you might think. Most won't admit it, she said, because of the stigma.

"There are those women that do nurse that keep it under wraps because they're afraid of what others are going to say about it," she said.

Paul said she usually breast-feeds Tiernan at home when he needs comforting.

"They're running around and playing," she said. "Once they get beyond 3 years old they're not nursing but a couple of times a day."

Although some might consider a pacifier a more socially acceptable way to comfort their child, Paul said she would prefer that her child receive comfort at her breast.

When Tiernan needs comforting, he will ask his mother for "nummies," his word for breast-feeding, Paul said. "We've had conversations about what it tastes like and he says it's very sweet," like vanilla ice cream, Paul said.

She is happy with the choice she made, she said, but she would never force it on somebody else.

"All I'm trying to do is let people know that it does happen, that it is perfectly normal," she said.

How Old Is Too Old?

She has a point. The average age of weaning around the world is 4 years old and there are no studies saying it is harmful. But child psychologist Will Braun said he isn't so sure and he wonders whether it's appropriate from a developmental standpoint.

"I think a child really needs to learn to develop the capacity to soothe oneself, the capacity to tolerate frustration," he said. "When a child is constantly given a breast, it might thwart that from happening."

'Extra Bonding'

Paul said her decision to continue breast-feeding is in her children's best interest.

"I've never done it for my own reasons. Yes, there are some wonderful benefits for moms, but I consider them bonuses," she said. "I've never done it for myself, unless you consider having a wonderful relationship with my kids, you know, as being something selfish to do for myself. ... But I don't think that is. It's always been for them."

Paul's older children -- Morgan, 12, and Siobhan, 9 -- were each breast-fed until age 6, and they appear to be well-adjusted and happy. They're good students, have plenty of friends and were eager to reminisce about the "good old" days of breast-feeding.

Morgan remembers saying, "Can I pleeeease&" and her mom saying, "OK. Fine."

Paul said she's heard other parents complain about how distant their children are, especially the boys.

"They come home from school and you ask how their day was and all you get is a 'fine' as they walk back to their room and slam the door shut. ... They can't talk to them about anything," she said.

But she said her children are different.

"They're very loving, very close children. I can still talk to my older son and have long, lengthy conversations cuddled up on the couch with him. He will on his own accord, if we're watching a movie, come and sit down next to me and rest his head on my shoulder, put his arm over my shoulder, come talk to me about whatever's bothering him at school," she said.

"I really feel that there is an extra bonding or attachment there that I would like to think that because he nursed until he was 6, that there was some more closeness there ... that you get when you're able to have him in your arms for a longer period of time," she said. "My daughter's the same way. Very much so."

When Siobhan sees Tiernan with their mother, she said, she wishes she could still do it sometimes.

"But I'm getting older and I'm just happy to see them doing it," she said.

But it's not just Paul's older children who say it is all right that Tiernan still breast-feeds. Her husband said it's no problem, too.

Sexual? Developmental? 'I Compartmentalize It'

Paul said she is able to distinguish between being her children's comfort object and being a sexual partner for her husband.

"I compartmentalize it," she said. "When I'm with my children and they need to nurse, then I'm mom. When I'm in the bedroom with my husband, I'm his wife and we have our intimate time. It's very much, they're two totally separate things."

'There's Nothing Wrong With This'

Though their children seem happy now, some may ask late breast-feeding moms whether they're doing what nature intended or taking a good thing too far. With no long-term studies, the jury's still out.

"Who wouldn't want to stay with mother's love, mother's nourishment, for their entire life?" Braun said. "It's a very seductive pull. But I think a mother's main job is to work herself out of a job."

Despite getting some negative feedback from people who disapprove of her choice to continue breast-feeding, Paul said she is not going to stop. She said she believes she is giving her son the best start she can in life.

"I'm comforting him, and when he's ready he'll quit," she said.

Paul said she hopes that more women will choose to breast-feed their children past infancy.

"This is a wonderful way to parent and nurture our children and give them the start that they deserve in life," she said. "You know, in other places in the world this is perfectly normal. There's nothing wrong with this and there isn't anything wrong with it. We just aren't used to seeing it in this country."
 
Okay, here's my two cents:

Breastfeeding is perfectly natural and the healthiest and best way to feed a baby. I was breastfed. If I ever had kids, I would breastfeed. I think more women should get over the 'omg a baby at my boob is grooooss' idea and breastfeed.

And when a mother is in public and her baby wants to nurse, she should nurse her baby. She shouldn't be forced to hide or seclude herself in a separate room, or just stay home, or pump beforehand so she can bottle-feed the baby instead.

Yes, women can (and many do) throw a baby blanket over their shoulder to cover the 'process'. The blanket doesn't actually make contact with the baby's face, so it's not cruel in that way, it just forms a tent around the baby and the mother's chest/arms. I think this is a very good, easy solution. But if for whatever reason, this is unfeasible/uncomfortable for the mother and the baby, there are loads of solutions that allow a woman to nurse her baby unencumbered, without exposing anything at all.

Look at these two images from a site that sells specially made clothes for nursing mothers:

27012_2.jpg
26091_2.jpg


You can hardly tell she's nursing at all. At a glance, it just looks like she's holding the baby. Nothing is exposed. A nursing baby takes the entire nipple and areola into its mouth. The nursing tops come with a covered slit, allowing the baby access. The slit can then be closed around the rest of the breast, covering everything that the baby's mouth isn't covering.

I can certainly see where people might be uncomfortable by a nursing mother having her whole boob hanging out, but honestly... it may be the natural way to nurse a baby, but in this society, any woman that does that in public probably wants the attention it will bring her. (And yes, that's my controversial statement for this post, here, have two more cents just for that)

There's no reason why a breastfeeding mother shouldn't buy a couple of nursing tops for use when she's out in public. They're no more expensive than other nice clothes, and they look perfectly stylish.
 
Paul said she's heard other parents complain about how distant their children are, especially the boys.

"They come home from school and you ask how their day was and all you get is a 'fine' as they walk back to their room and slam the door shut. ... They can't talk to them about anything," she said.

But she said her children are different.

"They're very loving, very close children. I can still talk to my older son and have long, lengthy conversations cuddled up on the couch with him. He will on his own accord, if we're watching a movie, come and sit down next to me and rest his head on my shoulder, put his arm over my shoulder, come talk to me about whatever's bothering him at school," she said.

One thing is for sure, that kid will get laid all he wants when he comes of age.
 
Facebook Bans Photos ------

YouTube - Breastfeeding Photos Pulled

Now I know there is a breast feeding thread out there...actually a few of them. But I fail to understand how they can do this when there are other, very naughty groups on Facebook that children are able to access verses my own personal photos.

So help we out. What is the deal, and should Facebook censor my own personal photos, that only people I allow to view, when they have public groups involving sexual things that any child can access.

While we are at it, why aren't parents responsible for setting up access privelages for their children? My kids cannot even access Facebook.
 
There is a bit of a misconception here.

FB did not ban or censor breastfeeding photos. They put a ban on all photos that show women's nipples. Some breastfeeding photos fall under that umbrella, but FB's intent here was not to censor images of breastfeeding. This is, however, the story that's being told since it's a lot sexier in the media, and a lot easier to produce massive outrage from all quarters who haven't bothered to actually look at the policy in effect.

Beyond that, FB is horrible with privacy issues, so this is really the least of any of our problems on there. They routinely surrender private information to just about anybody who asks for it based on a legit reason. I can tell you from a friend who works at a personal injury law firm that one of the first things in a drunk driving civil suit that the lawyers will ask for are all photos of the accused from FB. They are routinely surrendered, and the more of you double fisting drinks, the better.

People are a little silly with their FB content anyway. If you have something there that you wouldn't want your employer to see, for heaven's sake, remove it.
 
I've never been a nursing mother, but it seems a little far fetched that if she doesn't breast feed every 2 or 3 hours that she'll be in pain. If that's true, then she must never sleep for longer amounts of time than that

Her baby is still very young. It is very possible that her breasts WILL become engorged after going for that long without feeding. The milk doesn't just disappear - it keeps building up and building up and if you don't feed or express the excess milk, it DOES hurt and CAN lead to mastitis, which often needs to be treated with antibiotics.

I was thinking of the news story where the mothers had a nurse in protest at an Applebee's after one woman was asked to cover her breast- and therefore the baby's head- with a towel. She said it was cruel to the baby. I disagree. Nursing mothers in public are not ok IMO and if they are, might as well let every girl and woman expose their breasts in the mall. I know a lot of people who nurse and they squeeze the milk into bottles for when they have to be in public. I don't want to sound rude but it's gross. I don't want to be in a resturant and see some woman's boob getting sucked, which is essentially what it is. How is a kid sitting in that resturant seeing a naked boob like this okay and not in a Playboy? It's still there, and doesn't belong in public view, sorry. Bring a bottle or cover with a towel in the name of decency.

:huh:

I seriously hope you are joking. Breasts are for feeding babies! If you don't like it, don't look. Simple.

Maybe somebody here who has breastfed can comment on the timing of it (is it doable in 45 minutes with a quick lunch), because I really have no way to evaluate

At that age, 45 minutes would probably have been JUST enough time to breastfeed my babies. I'd probably need twice that to express milk because I don't find it very easy.

Me too, of course it's natural, but it's not okay to be seen in public, other womens' husbands, little kids, old people, etc. I don't see a problem with covering up with a towel, if you MUST do it in public and not at home, and not use a pump and bottle. If it was raining, or cold, or if the sun was in the baby's eyes, you'd cover his head up just walking down the street, so why is it 'tramatizing' to cover up while he's nursing? The baby sucks with its eyes closed anyway. I think covering is a good compromise.

1. I'm sure 'other womens' husbands' would have no problem with seeing a woman breastfeeding in public. Most men would see it for what it is and completely understand, especially if their wives have breastfed their own children.
2. I would have thought most normal people would teach their kids that breasts are for feeding babies, so I don't see any problem with children seeing a woman breastfeeding.
3. If it's cold or sunny, I put a HAT (you know, those things people wear on their heads?) on my baby - not a TOWEL. Do you put a towel over your head when you eat or drink???
 
I sort of did not want my breast feeding thread lumped in here. My thread was supposed to be about facebook, and users rights. Since as a user I have the right to NOT allow people to see my page by denying thier ability to see my Wall and Photos, why is this an issue? I guess because it had the word Breast, it had to go in here.
 
Since as a user I have the right to NOT allow people to see my page by denying thier ability to see my Wall and Photos, why is this an issue? I guess because it had the word Breast, it had to go in here.

Because the vast majority of FB users do not restrict access to their profile photos, which is what the issue here was initially - people posting what FB considered to be "lewd" photos in their profiles.

Additionally, not everybody restricts access to their walls or photos. Since FB does not mandate this privacy setting, what you choose to do as a single user is pretty irrelevant to the big picture.
 
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