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Old 06-08-2011, 10:42 PM   #121
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Nothing would make me happier than to see a successful female politician in Washington be taken down by sex scandal and for them to lose so much that they have worked for like so many men before them.
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Old 06-08-2011, 11:04 PM   #122
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'Ms. Cordova’s experience with Mr. Weiner appears to fit a pattern: in rapid and reckless fashion, he sought to transform informal online conversations about politics and partisanship into sexually charged exchanges, at times laced with racy language and explicit images.'

apparently these exchanges were not always consensual

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/09/ny...-pursuits.html



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In Reckless Pattern, Political Admirers Became Online Pursuits
By ASHLEY PARKER and MICHAEL BARBARO

Gennette Cordova said she did not even think the photo was real.

It was nearly 9 p.m. on a Friday when Ms. Cordova, who was preparing to head out for the night with a friend, logged onto Twitter and discovered that Representative Anthony D. Weiner had sent her a suggestive photo of himself in gray boxer briefs.

“It didn’t make any sense,” Ms. Cordova, a 21-year-old college student in northwestern Washington State, said in her first extensive interview since Mr. Weiner confessed in a news conference Monday to sending her the photo. “I figured it must have been a fake.”

Ms. Cordova’s experience with Mr. Weiner appears to fit a pattern: in rapid and reckless fashion, he sought to transform informal online conversations about politics and partisanship into sexually charged exchanges, at times laced with racy language and explicit images.

Ms. Cordova, who had traded messages with Mr. Weiner, a New York Democrat, about their shared concern over his conservative critics, said she had never sent him anything provocative. Asked if she was taken aback by his decision to send the photo, she responded, “Oh gosh, yes.”

Ms. Cordova was first impressed with Mr. Weiner after she saw him take on Representative Michele Bachmann, a Tea Party-backed Republican from Minnesota, on Fox News’s “Hannity.” Ms. Cordova and her boyfriend thought the congressman was smart and funny, and they both started following him on Twitter.

“I tweeted words of support for him as a politician, and I retweeted his tweets often beginning around early to mid-April,” Ms. Cordova said, in a series of conversations by phone and e-mail over the past two days.

She added that in mid-April, “he thanked me for the support” using a direct message — a private note sent via Twitter — and he then signed up as her follower on Twitter, meaning that he could easily read all of her posts.

Ms. Cordova said that after Mr. Weiner began following her, critics of the congressman started sending her harassing messages. She said she then began communicating, always electronically, with the congressman about their shared annoyance with those critics.

Ms. Cordova provided a portion of her communications with Mr. Weiner to The Times, in which they messaged back and forth about the online detractors and their tactics. But Ms. Cordova would not make all of her interaction with him available for review.

“I have not sent him any suggestive messages,” Ms. Cordova said.

She said she was, however, surprised by his informal tone. “He was just very casual,” she said. “It wasn’t like talking to a U.S. congressman.”

A spokeswoman for Mr. Weiner did not dispute Ms. Cordova’s account.

Mr. Weiner, at his news conference on Monday, said he had sent Ms. Cordova the underwear photo “as part of a joke.” But Ms. Cordova said the image was not in keeping with the tenor of their previous interactions.

“I still didn’t get the joke part of it,” she said.

add this to the mix

Quote:
Former Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell, an influential Democratic leader, said a day earlier that Weiner should keep his seat and serve as a voice for the poor. But on Wednesday, he said he'd changed his mind.

"Yesterday I said he hasn't done anything to hurt anybody but himself and perhaps his terrific wife. I think this picture puts it over the limit," Rendell said. "I think he's got no choice now but to resign."
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Old 06-08-2011, 11:16 PM   #123
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America is sexually challenged.
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Old 06-09-2011, 12:25 AM   #124
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online, as opposed to real life, there are "delete" and "ignore" functions.
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Old 06-09-2011, 06:26 AM   #125
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America is sexually challenged.
This would be an Olympic event worth tuning in for.
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Old 06-09-2011, 06:35 AM   #126
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The safe ting for rich and powerful men to do is get a call girl and get a receipt that will hold up in court.

Sad but true.
Um, wow.

How about this: the safe thing for rich and powerful men to do is to act like mature, responsible, decent human beings who aren't ruled by their penises.

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Originally Posted by canedge View Post
Nothing would make me happier than to see a successful female politician in Washington be taken down by sex scandal and for them to lose so much that they have worked for like so many men before them.
At least you didn't preface this with "now, I'm not sexist, but..."
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Old 06-09-2011, 09:33 AM   #127
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How about this: the safe thing for rich and powerful men to do is to act like mature, responsible, decent human beings who aren't ruled by their penises.

What??? Are you insane?

I feel worse and worse for his pregnant wife.
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Old 06-09-2011, 10:05 AM   #128
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Haha copyright infringement-yeah when I heard that I was thinking you have got to be kidding. What moral authority does he have? He and Hillary think of Huma as another daughter. But when exactly was he thinking about his biological daughter when he was having sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky. He didn't have to apologize of course, he chose to. But still a joke.

Jon Stewart - Anthony Weiner - Bill Clinton | Mediaite

Stewart noted that the entire concept of apologizing to Clinton for a sex scandal was “insane,” and had no idea how to even approach the possible conversation between the two. “Apologizing to Clinton for what, copyright infringement?” he joked, predicting that the only thing Clinton could have responded with was a deviously inquisitive curiosity towards “this Twitter thing.”
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Old 06-09-2011, 10:21 AM   #129
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online, as opposed to real life, there are "delete" and "ignore" functions.
Are you talking about what deep posted about Gennette Cordova? If she's telling the truth about their communications why would she have had any reason to ignore? As for deleting the photo after the fact- well the horse is already out of the barn on that one, so to speak. Like Cori said, surprise penis. If she's telling the truth he was way out of line on that one.

There's a huge difference between political conversations and random surprise penis. If that's truly what is was then he's the one with the responsibility for that one and it's irrelevant that she didn't delete or ignore. He could have just been making the leap that any woman he engaged with on those sites was up for that. Just because some were doesn't give him the right to think that any and all were.
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Old 06-09-2011, 10:36 AM   #130
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There are many nuances in a seduction that generally favor the woman.
At the whip it out stage the man is faced with two options. Whip it out an reap the benefits or put it back in his pants. If he puts in back in his pants he will be called sissy by the woman but he will hold on to his political career.

If he goes for the gold there is chance he will set up by either text message, photograph, rape allegation whatever. The safe ting for rich and powerful men to do is get a call girl and get a receipt that will hold up in court.

Sad but true.
What?!

I don't even know where to start. You either need to get out more, or you have some really deep rooted issues you need to deal with.
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Old 06-09-2011, 11:36 AM   #131
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If she's telling the truth he was way out of line on that one.

yes, i agree.

the distinction i am making is that this isn't a comparable situation than if he were to, say, whip it out at a bar and throw it down on the table. while it might not be pleasant and would certainly be inappropriate to receive an unsolicited email of someone's goodies, it's quite a different situation than if the same thing were to happen in real life, in real time. the point i am making is that one can easily ignore/delete said emails, whereas in person, it's a different story.


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Just because some were doesn't give him the right to think that any and all were.

yes, i agree. in this situation if this woman's account is true.

but how great is this crime? it's creepy and weird, sure, but was someone actually harmed? is a photo of male genitalia that shocking?

and these are some broader thoughts before i totally walk away from this thread and not meant at you .... but, again, i've said i think Weiner should step down or something, and it's too bad because i enjoyed how well he was able to verbally smack down Fox and their bullshit. i think his behavior was at times inappropriate, and certainly colossally stupid. but i don't think that consensual sexual messaging between adults -- which often involves the exchange of photographs and highly sexual language -- is all that different from looking at online pornography, especially when these two adults will never meet up in real life.

and maybe this is me, but i perhaps have a greater tolerance for sexual shortcomings and failures because i know what it's like to be discriminated against for falling short of some perceived standard out there. i get very uncomfortable with sexual sanctimony, especially because it almost always seems to be perpetrated by people who have the darkest secrets to hide. i am also a firm believer in sexual egalitarianism and believe women have the right and ability to "fuck like men" (so to speak) should they so desire, but what comes with that comes the full responsibility of sexuality (protection from disease, responsibility for your own feelings as well as others, that your orgasm is your own responsibility). so i reflexively dig my heels in when a situation like this is painted as some drooling, predatory man is preying upon innocent women who are so transfixed by his power that they're helpless to do anything but succumb to his digital penis, or find that image so traumatic that they have to explain their total discomfort and total surprise that the conversation went this way. let's not forget: it was Monica Lewinsky who snapped her thong at Bill Clinton. should Clinton have known better and acted accordingly being in a position of power? absolutely. but Monica is not some poor little thing who was preyed upon by a dirty old man. that was a consensual affair between two adults that was initially instigated by the female.

and i am also sympathetic to men in general. part of my sexual egalitarianism is also understanding real, quantifiable differences between men and women. that's why i brought up testosterone earlier and why i use the examples of transgendered female-to-males who are often shocked at the power of the hormone in their bodies. i think many men find monogamy a challenge, crave sexual variety, all while being in a happy marriage to women they love. and because they love their spouses they control their urges and act accordingly and follow their vows. but it's not like sexual desire actually goes away, and one of the big seductions of the internet is that it gives you virtual variety, a virtual stream of endless partners, and enables you to engage in what amounts to virtual interactive pornography done in the comfort of your home/hotel room/home office that remains fantasy and keeps you from actually cheating or actually bringing an STD home.

this is why i think the Weiner "scandal" falls far short of every other actual scandal involving actual sex. i think it is worse for Elliot Spitzer to meet call girls in hotel rooms at the Mayflower and try to get away with not using a condom. i think it is worse for Gov. Sanford to say he's "hiking the Appalachian Trail" and is actually cavorting on a beach with some Argentinian. i think it is worse for Bill Clinton to receive a blow job in his office, but not actually "complete." or for Larry Craig -- hater of homosexuals -- trying to blow an undercover cop in the MSP bathroom. and, as i said before, i think we're falling into a sexual double standard. all these men are suffering from the same case of horniness, but Weiner's is much more 21st century, and we're pathologizing it as particularly weird and gross because it didn't involve actual fucking. because a real man would at least have the decency to claim his rightful random vagina.

in a nutshell, how anyone can excuse Clinton but call Weiner something worse is beyond me.
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Old 06-09-2011, 12:08 PM   #132
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I don't consider myself to be "sexually sanctimonious" at all-people are free to do whatever they want in their sex lives as long as it isn't nonconsensual violence or raping people. I just have my own personal standards and that's the only judgment I make. I have flirted with a couple of people but not that Weiner type of stuff there. Not my thing at all. Neither is porn. I just have a standard that a married person, and pardon me, should not be talking about hard ons and someone making them wet or anything of the sort with someone else online. Or sending photos. Just my personal standard. It doesn't matter to me whether or not you'll ever meet the person. It's still a real person, another human being. Can't understand at all that there is some sort of dehumanizing disconnect.

I know that not all of it was when he was married. And it has been reported that he told her before he was married that he had done some of the Twitter stuff but he was going to stop-don't know to what extent she was aware of how much he had done it, etc. Maybe he said that at the press conference? Not sure. But once you are married, by my personal standards-knock it off. Maybe he should have gone into some counseling before he got married. Or don't get married if you don't want to stop that stuff. Of course sexual desire doesn't go away, but I believe in momogamy within marriage. If there are sexual issues talk about them, get therapy, etc. I believe in a closeness in which you are able to talk about that stuff and don't have some secret online "life". Like I said before, for me that's worse than the sex stuff. It's just not something I'd personally be comfortable with.


I only said one woman may have been unwilling-it certainly appears that the rest were willing. I do think an unwanted photo is shocking. It's not that it's a photo of a body part-it's what the hell makes you think you have the right to do that? (in the case of an unwanted, unsolicited photo or message). As for Bill Clinton I make no excuses for him.
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Old 06-09-2011, 12:23 PM   #133
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I just have my own personal standards and that's the only judgment I make.


of course. we all do.

the question is, then, is someone's non-criminal sex life -- cyber or not -- grounds for you (meaning voters) not voting for them or asking them to resign?

and this is more of a hypothetical -- i think most of us are in agreement that it's Weiner's behavior after the "story" broke that's more at issue.
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Old 06-09-2011, 12:32 PM   #134
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of course. we all do.

the question is, then, is someone's non-criminal sex life -- cyber or not -- grounds for you (meaning voters) not voting for them or asking them to resign?

and this is more of a hypothetical -- i think most of us are in agreement that it's Weiner's behavior after the "story" broke that's more at issue.
For me it's just a question of his judgment and character as far was what he did when he was married. It's his choice whether or not to resign. I never know what anyone is doing in his or her sex life and the moral and practical judgments they're making so to vote for anyone is a risk. I don't care to know unless, for me, it becomes an indication of character or legal wrongdoing. Of course I'm far more concerned with what they're doing for our economy, our wars, and all of it.

I just can't help but put myself in the place of a pregnant woman married for 11 months and being followed by cameras because of THIS while she's working for the freaking Secretary of State. I sympathize. I am probably one of the biggest cynics you'll ever find about marriage. So operating from that prism none of this ever at all surprises me , shocks me, etc etc etc. Somehow I do hold onto certain standards and it's just scary to think how tenuous it really all can be. Makes me glad that I don't have to worry about it. It's really all a huge leap of faith and a big risk. Sometimes it can seem impossible that it can really work in the way that I personally believe it should.
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Old 06-09-2011, 01:34 PM   #135
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I just want to say that this scandal has produced some of the best headlines ever:

"Pressure Mounting on Weiner"
"Weiner Has No Plans To Quit"
"Dems Look To Push Weiner Out"
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