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Old 09-24-2013, 09:48 AM   #46
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All the more reason to stop saddling future generations with mountains of debt.
Sure. Let's increase revenues to decrease debt.
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:20 AM   #47
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It's amazing how people take "the markets" and treat it like another invisible sky friend who does no wrong and is always right and if we'd just get out of the way it would fix everything.
Very true. As we all know - nothing can go wrong with mob rule.
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Old 09-24-2013, 04:58 PM   #48
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Sure. Let's increase revenues to decrease debt.
Yes, because we all work for the government and anything, in their benevolence, they allow us to keep we should give thanks for.

Anyway, we have a spending problem, not a revenue problem.

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Old 09-24-2013, 05:26 PM   #49
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Haven't we all learned from posters past that what matters is % of GDP?

We have a revenue problem. Let's revisit the 1990s.
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Old 09-24-2013, 07:47 PM   #50
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Haven't we all learned from posters past that what matters is % of GDP?
Isn't it about 75%? And from what I understand, that isn't exactly optimal.
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:25 PM   #51
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Isn't it about 75%? And from what I understand, that isn't exactly optimal.

No one is saying the debt isnt an issue. (The GOP certainly didn't care about debt in the 1980s or in the 2000s). I'm just saying a simplistic chart like the one above isn't terribly helpful. We should have spent more earlier. We'd be in better shape than we are now.
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:49 PM   #52
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Saying we don't have a revenue problem is laughable.
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:57 PM   #53
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I guess the older I get, I see more importance in a human life and the ability to feed one's family above something as arbitrary as "markets."
Markets aren't "arbitrary," quite the contrary. Market forces are the result of an untold number of voluntary, individual decisions. The opposite of centralized top-down decision making.
Now arbitrary is the $12.50/hr rate the D.C. City council pulled out of thin air. Why not $13.50? Hell, it's not their money, why not $18.00/hr?
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:00 PM   #54
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Haven't we all learned from posters past that what matters is % of GDP?

We have a revenue problem. Let's revisit the 1990s.
With 90's levels of spending?
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:43 PM   #55
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...an untold number of voluntary, individual decisions.
EXACTLY!

arbitrary: based on random choice or personal whim
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:45 PM   #56
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why not $18.00/hr?
Why not $40.00/hr so people can actually live? It's not your money either. It's all one big shadow play so why are you fighting over which puppets get time in front of the fire to create the illusion?
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Old 09-24-2013, 11:44 PM   #57
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Better yet - how about capping income and holdings? Or do you believe those that are super wealthy have some super human abilities that give them the "right" to manipulate our economic system to move wealth away from other hard working people into their own accounts? Are we really to believe these people are that much smarter and worked that much harder than everyone else? And unless you are one of these super mutants - why in the world are you fighting for them?
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Old 09-25-2013, 01:10 AM   #58
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It all comes down to a terrible case of cross-purposes over the nature of freedom itself, I suspect.

Dating back to the first rise of 18th century liberalism and classical economy. Maybe further.
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Old 09-25-2013, 07:09 AM   #59
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Meh, never mind.
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Old 09-25-2013, 07:09 AM   #60
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Markets aren't "arbitrary," quite the contrary. Market forces are the result of an untold number of voluntary, individual decisions.
Even supply-side economists are mumbling under their breathe, "shut up INDY, you're not helping us."
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