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Old 10-21-2008, 03:23 PM   #16
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I thought it would be common sense not to wear a pro-candidate shirt. Don't they ban any political signs or campaigning within a certain radius of a polling place? Obviously that would extend to a button or shirt you're wearing. Right?

Correct me if I'm wrong. Or else I'll never learn.

No, you're right. I think, though, that a lot of people may not have the common sense to think it applies to shirts, etc...if they even knew that signs were banned. I don't doubt that a lot of people don't even know that fact!
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Old 10-21-2008, 04:24 PM   #17
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I don't even think it's common sense - a lot of young people might figure what they wear is totally separate from the dudes outside with signs.


And I'm not sure how much that's known or applied (again it's not just lack of common sense), I'm pretty sure whenever I went with my parents to vote as a kid they had their buttons on still.

Luckily it's cold in most places so you can either cover it up with your jacket or take off that layer?
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Old 10-21-2008, 04:33 PM   #18
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Luckily it's cold in most places so you can either cover it up with your jacket or take off that layer?

I would hope that most places would be kind enough to let you do that, or to turn it inside-out or something, as opposed to leaving the site altogether until it's fixed. If the latter happens in the backdrop of long lines, it could turn some people away altogether (though perhaps unlikely if people were psyched enough to wear a shirt...).
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Old 10-21-2008, 06:17 PM   #19
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"Common sense" was definitely the wrong term for me to use in this situation, I think.
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Old 10-21-2008, 06:29 PM   #20
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I may have to note that this is a different, at times strange political culture here, so I sometimes have trouble why people must make clear and visible who they are voting for to everyone. I guess going to the poll station it really may not harm to just go in normal, neutral clothing and the support would be equally as effective; perhaps even more so since then the vote has a greater chance of counting (if they do not find another way to tell you that your rights to vote are denied for whatever bogus reason).

I don't like to say that as it sounds like bragging, but in some ways I really prefer how Germany and about every other democratic country goes about voting: If you are 18, you are allowed to vote in federal elections (on local level from age 16). This right cannot in any way be taken from you, you cannot be turned away and you don't have to go through any weird registration process with hurdles and intransparencies.
That, and every vote counts (if cast correctly, that's for sure). No "winner takes it all".
That said, I'm frightened because voting machines are used in more and more voting districts each election. I don't want these machines between me and my voting choice or voting rights.

The people at Acorn and any other organisation that did register fake identities should be ashamed of themselves and never again be allowed to work for such organisations. Same if there were any members of the Democratic party, and I'm sure there are.
If that is true what they report on the scale of voter fraud from the Republican party, that's frightening, appalling, shameful and a slap into the face for anyone who claims democracy.
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Old 10-21-2008, 07:27 PM   #21
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No, you're right. I think, though, that a lot of people may not have the common sense to think it applies to shirts, etc...if they even knew that signs were banned. I don't doubt that a lot of people don't even know that fact!
I was pondering something along these lines:

1) Wear Obama shirt under jacket.
2) Vote.
3) Remove jacket and walk out of polling place.

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Old 10-21-2008, 07:48 PM   #22
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Voting by mail for the win. I've already voted, I think Washington State will join Oregon in being entirely absentee ballot in the future. Good idea, too.

This paragraph is so good, it needs to be repeated again:
Quote:
Large-scale, coordinated vote stealing doesn't happen. The incentives—unlike the incentives for registration fraud—just aren't there. In an interview this week with Salon, Lorraine Minnite of Barnard College, who has studied vote fraud systematically, noted that "between 2002 to 2005 only one person was found guilty of registration fraud. Twenty others were found guilty of voting while ineligible and five were guilty of voting more than once. That's 26 criminal voters." Twenty-six criminal voters despite the fact that U.S. attorneys, like David Iglesias in New Mexico, were fired for searching high and low for vote-fraud cases to prosecute and coming up empty. Twenty-six criminal voters despite the fact that five days before the 2006 election, then-interim U.S. Attorney Bradley Schlozman exuberantly (and futilely) indicted four ACORN workers, even when Justice Department policy barred such prosecutions in the days before elections. RNC General Counsel Sean Cairncross has said he is unaware of a single improper vote cast because of bad cards submitted in the course of a voter-registration effort. Republican campaign consultant Royal Masset says, "[I]n-person voter fraud is nonexistent. It doesn't happen, and ... makes no sense because who's going to take the risk of going to jail on something so blatant that maybe changes one vote?"
There's no golden mean between the Republicans and Democrats' claims of vote stealing: we have a desperate hunt for fraud by the Bush Administration turning up 26 criminals found nationwide between 2002-2005, versus the RNC and Michigan GOP admitting in court that they were going to use mortgage foreclosure lists to illegally deny citizens their vote.
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Old 10-21-2008, 07:54 PM   #23
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I was pondering something along these lines:

1) Wear Obama shirt under jacket.
2) Vote.
3) Remove jacket and walk out of polling place.

The polling station will be closed and the boxes/voting machines "decontaminated".
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Old 10-21-2008, 08:06 PM   #24
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I've never heard this neutral clothing thing before, and I can't understand why a voter's clothing should have to do with anything. It wouldn't here, although we generally are much more low-key than you guys. Am I being dense? Can someone explain it to me? Is it an actual rule, or just a precaution, to avoid potential fraud at the polls?
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Old 10-21-2008, 08:14 PM   #25
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As far as why the dems aren't screaming about the voter suppression from every hilltop, I've been asking myself that since 2000. You'd think with our "liberally-biased media" (ha ha) it would be front page news, yet somehow the networks are for the most part silent.
i know i'm still pissed about that, even though i wasn't even old enough to vote in that election. i've made it a point to vote in every election since turning 18 though, even for "minor" elections. i figure it's kinda like the trickle down effect, in that every position matters, no matter how insignificant.

and gore was just portrayed to be some big crybaby, like he just had sour grapes. ugh.
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Old 10-21-2008, 08:16 PM   #26
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I guess the intention is, as in most cases, good, to prevent election campaigning on the last steps to the vote. In Germany we have a similar rule, though not extended to the individual person (which we don't need, no one wears a shirt or button saying SPD, CDU, or Merkel), that parties are not allowed to put any party advertisements in or around the voting locations to prevent them from trying to influence voters there.
The same probably is meant here. On the day of election when people go to the voting stations they shouldn't be influenced by anyone within the voting station.
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Old 10-21-2008, 08:18 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by VintagePunk View Post
I've never heard this neutral clothing thing before, and I can't understand why a voter's clothing should have to do with anything. It wouldn't here, although we generally are much more low-key than you guys. Am I being dense? Can someone explain it to me? Is it an actual rule, or just a precaution, to avoid potential fraud at the polls?
i did find this news story on google: Virginia upholds ban on political clothing at polling places it only applies to virginia and d.c. though. basically, there's no political campaigning allowed within 40 feet of a poll station, and shirts/buttons on a voter can seem like campaigning. it seems not all states ban this though as it says maryland's okay.

personally, i can see why it'd be construed as political campaigning to wear such clothing while voting. but on the other hand, if someone's so easily swayed to go like "oh look an obama button, i'll vote for him i guess" then they deserve to allow themselves to be subjected to it. if everyone else at the station is wearing mccain stuff when i go to vote tomorrow, guess what. i'm still voting for obama. and if the guy next to me voted for mccain since everyone else was wearing his clothing, then at least he has to go through life knowing he's incapable of forming his own opinions.
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Old 10-22-2008, 10:29 PM   #28
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Here's a list of things you can do to make sure your vote is counted:

Vote early, preferably in person. Most of the people who will be out and about to mount challenges will be doing this on Election Day proper. This also gives you a chance to makes sure you are registered properly and challenge back if anything is wrong.
Insist on a paper trail. Many states have this as an option now, but in some it's only upon request. Request.

Don't wear anything that signals your voting preferences. Some states have little-used laws that prevent "electioneering" in polling places, and there have been signals that the folks there to challenge some voters will be challenging people wearing Obama stuff. Leave it at home or in your car.

Bring picture ID. Your state may or may not require that you have it, but it is one good way to verify your identity and residency if challenged. If your address isn't up-to-date, many states can issue free temporary change-of-address cards, or just do the paperwork to get it officially changed today.

Stand your ground, politely. The point of a challenge is to keep you from voting, and they can win in two ways. The easiest thing to do — which is why they're doing it — is to embarrass you into leaving. Fuck that. If you can't win the challenge at the moment, demand a provisional ballot and a written explanation of what you need to do to make sure that it is counted. Speak only to official poll workers, and ignore the partisan hack if s/he tries to "help."

Ask for help. If there is a problem with your electronic machine, do not press done and leave the polling place. Insist that a poll worker help you until your vote is cast correctly. If it cannot be, tell them they need to request assistance from the appropriate authorities and refuse to leave or cast your ballot until the problem is corrected. If you leave, you've probably already lost. Do not forget to have a paper trail.
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Old 10-22-2008, 11:50 PM   #29
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What country are these tips for, again?


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Old 10-22-2008, 11:50 PM   #30
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WTFland, which is apparently where I'm living these days.
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