Utah Bill Criminalizes Miscarriage

[BVS]

A bill passed by the Utah House and Senate this week and waiting for the governor's signature, will make it a crime for a woman to have a miscarriage, and make induced abortion a crime in some instances.

According Lynn M. Paltrow, executive director of National Advocates for Pregnant Women, what makes Utah's proposed law unique is that it is specifically designed to be punitive toward pregnant women, not those who might assist or cause an illegal abortion or unintended miscarriage.


Utah Bill Criminalizes Miscarriage | RHRealityCheck.org


Unfortunately it seems the major news outlets aren't covering this yet, I usually try to avoid blogs, but I thought this might spark some discussion.

 

[Irvine511]

abortion thread?

 

[corianderstem]

Whatever its "honorable" intentions, there is no way on god's green earth that it won't get twisted by some opportunistic lawyer to try and distort it and be nothing but harmful to women.

And how does this work? Are they going to investigate every miscarriage? Way to make a grieving woman more miserable.

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

Shouldn't instead the bill make it so the third parties attempting to induce a miscarriage/abortion illegally be are the ones charged? I believe that's what its like in other states.

 

[vjacqb]

Confusion... Why do they call it miscarriage and not abortion? Is it because technically an abortion cannot be outlawed?

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

Pretty much. This is where I feel the pro-choice argument falters: If a doctor can destroy a fetus, why is it that anyone else who does it with the mothers consent gets charged for murder? I just can't wrap my head around that one.

 

[PhilsFan]

What about a regular miscarriage? That's a crime now?

 

[corianderstem]

Pretty much. This is where I feel the pro-choice argument falters: If a doctor can destroy a fetus, why is it that anyone else who does it with the mothers consent gets charged for murder?

I don't understand why you're offering that as a pro-choice argument.

 

[BVS]

Pretty much. This is where I feel the pro-choice argument falters: If a doctor can destroy a fetus, why is it that anyone else who does it with the mothers consent gets charged for murder? I just can't wrap my head around that one.

Say what?!

 

[vjacqb]

I haven't read the story yet, the site seems to be blocked by my work's firewall. But from "According Lynn M. Paltrow, executive director of National Advocates for Pregnant Women, what makes Utah's proposed law unique is that it is specifically designed to be punitive toward pregnant women, not those who might assist or cause an illegal abortion or unintended miscarriage."

I guess the part about the "unintended miscarriage" is what you called regular miscarriage. How do they prove intent though in every miscarriage case? If I go biking and have an accident and fall and have a miscarriage, some lawyer can say I intended to hurt the fetus by going biking.

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

I don't understand why you're offering that as a pro-choice argument.

I wasn't. But I'm saying I don't understand why its legal and acceptable for a doctor to destroy a fetus, whereas anyone else would be charged with murder (If that makes sense?)

 

[BVS]

I wasn't. But I'm saying I don't understand why its legal and acceptable for a doctor to destroy a fetus, whereas anyone else would be charged with murder (If that makes sense?)

Well I do think this is a very gray area, one that's not defined very well. You're talking about if someone murders a pregnant woman why sometimes they are charged with two counts of murder? Am I understanding you right?

 

[corianderstem]

I wasn't. But I'm saying I don't understand why its legal and acceptable for a doctor to destroy a fetus, whereas anyone else would be charged with murder (If that makes sense?)

Yes. The wording of your sentence was just a bit odd.

I believe this leglislation came about when a young woman hired a guy to basically cause a miscarriage by beating her.

Horrifying. Also horrifying - that this young woman felt this was her best option.

 

[LemonMelon]

What about a regular miscarriage? That's a crime now?

No, the action that induces the miscarriage is a crime. Theoretically, you could be observed as inebriated and -- if a miscarriage closely follows -- incarcerated for it.

Fucking insane, frankly. That's Utahn justice for you.

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

Well I do think this is a very gray area, one that's not defined very well. You're talking about if someone murders a pregnant woman why sometimes they are charged with two counts of murder? Am I understanding you right?

Right. Or if the woman payed someone to induce a miscarriage (i.e. beating her), like in the article.

 

[corianderstem]

Or it could be twisted to say that a woman's a victim of domestic violence, and her abuser causes a miscarriage, could she be charged with this crime?

Or a woman has a glass of wine at a restaurant, and later miscarries - could she be charged, even though her doctor has told her a glass once a week early in the pregnancy was acceptable?

If a woman miscarries without any obvious external cause, does it get investigated anyway?

How do they find out who's miscarried? Do pregnant women need to be tracked?

Hell to the N-O on this.

 

[martha]

I believe this leglislation came about when a young woman hired a guy to basically cause a miscarriage by beating her.

Horrifying. Also horrifying - that this young woman felt this was her best option.

It could be a woman's only option if Pac Mule gets his way and outlaws all abortions.

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

what the fuck.

 

[Kieran McConville]

Who is Utah Bill and where can I get my hands on him?

 

[Galeongirl]

This is disturbing.

 

[corianderstem]

Who is Utah Bill and where can I get my hands on him?

Ha!

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

It could be a woman's only option if Pac Mule gets his way and outlaws all abortions.

Or she could just 'yunno, have the baby....

 

[LemonMelon]

Or she could just 'yunno, have the baby....

And you can adopt him!

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

And you can adopt him!

Yeah. I could. Or someone else could.

Also, as a side note, I have never said I would ban all abortions.

 

[martha]

Or she could just 'yunno, have the baby....

Yeah. I could. Or someone else could.

Also, as a side note, I have never said I would ban all abortions.

Once again, who put you in charge of the bodies and health of complete strangers??


And, once again, when you get to decide what happens to my body, the results will not be what you thought they would be. Women will find ways of ending their pregnancies, no matter what people like you think and do. So, you can keep abortion safe and legal, or you can have women sticking hangers inside them or paying men to beat the fetus out of them. I guess you think it's your choice. Now you see the results of that.

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

Once again, who put you in charge of the bodies and health of complete strangers??

No one did, you simply said if I was in charge I would ban all abortions, then I refuted that statement.

And, once again, when you get to decide what happens to my body, the results will not be what you thought they would be. Women will find ways of ending their pregnancies, no matter what people like you think and do. So, you can keep abortion safe and legal, or you can have women sticking hangers inside them or paying men to beat the fetus out of them. I guess you think it's your choice. Now you see the results of that.

You're very hostile towards the pro-life argument.

And, once again, when you get to decide what happens to my body, the results will not be what you thought they would be.

It's more about what your doing to the fetus' body than your own.

[warning, graphic] http://www.hyscience.com/abortion_22_weeks01.jpg

But anyways, I'm not getting into another abortion debate seeing as I'm the only one on the pro-life side that bothers to debate anymore, which is too bad.

 

[martha]

N
You're very hostile towards the pro-life argument.


It's more about what your doing to the fetus' body than your own.

D'ya think these two points may be related? Hmm?

 

[kafrun]

Logic fail.

 

[u2popmofo]

I hate where I live, just so everyone knows.

 

[Jive Turkey]

I hate where I live, just so everyone knows.

Sounds exactly like something Utah Bill would say to cover up his true identity